Ecumenism: "Why Can't We Be Friends?"

[Fidei Defensor]

20 minutes ago, Sower said:

I agree the RCC has had a hand in charity work, as it should be.
I was a catholic for thirty years. I love all catholics.
I also believe the work they do is more visible due to the popularity with the media.
Our church denomination, the largest protestant denomination,  does not have the same media attention. And most independent protestant churches do not have the funding as does the RCC, which is one of the wealthiest organizations in the world.
Another reason for the typical catholic member to be involved in charity  is simply
that they are taught it is by their works they might be saved, as you know, Fidei.
My mom, a staunch catholic till her death, knew very very little scripture, didn't
understand about being born again till I discussed it with her in her latter years.
But she was the epitome of a 'works' mentality, driven to help anybody/everybody 
she possibly could. I could not get her in her eighties to slow down and enjoy her family and play with her great/grand children. She was also stubborn.
She couldn't conceive of the idea that Christ did it all, and she only had to believe, and that works would not help in her salvation. Most all catholics I talk to believe the same. Works works. I learned much in those thirty years, good morals,
duty, respect and discipline, a great education.
But the church has millions of members that believe they need to do good (charitable) works to be saved. So, yes. The catholic church is known for it's works.
Through the media. And it's body of work driven members. My mom was one.

It's one thing to do all the misguided works you can to save your soul.
It is a better thing you do (as a believer) when it for the good of another.

 

I am sorry your mother reposed beleiving works save, when it is by grace we are saved through faith in Christ. 

It is too bad your Mother was unable to read Dante’s Paradiso: 

“Now listen well, for what I have to say contains the doctrine of important truths. Because for his own good, he would not let his will be curbed, the man who knew no birth, damming himself, dammed all his progeny, therefore, the human race lay sick below within their error for long centuries, until the Word of God chose to descend: there, moved by His unselfish Love alone, He took unto Himself, in His own Being, that nature which had wandered from its maker. Now listen to my reasoning, once joined with its First Cause, this nature was (as it had been when first created) pure and good; but by itself alone, by its own act, having abandoned truth, and the true life, out of God's holy garden it was chased. Then, if the Crucifixion can be judged as punishment of that nature assumed, no penalty could bite with greater justice, just as none could be judged as more unjust, considering the Person who endured it with whom 
that other nature was combined. Thus, one event produced different effects; God and the Jews both pleased by this one death for which earth shook and Haven opened wide. Now it should not be difficult for you to understand the concept of just vengeance being avenged in time by just decree. You say: I clearly understand your words, but why God did not choose some other way for our redemption still remains unclear. The reason. brother, for that choice lies buried from all men's eyes until their inner sight has grown to ripeness in the warmth of love, nevertheless, sicne men have always aimed their arrows at this mark they rarely strike, I shall explain why this choice is bvest. Divine goodness, which from itself rejects all envy, sparkles so, that It reveals the eternal beauties burning in Itself. That which derives directly from His Being from then on is eternal, for His seal, once it is stamped, can never be effaced. That which derives directly from His Being is wholly free, not subject to the law of secondary things. Created thus, it most resembles Him, most pleases Him; the Sacred Flame which lights all of creation burns brightest in what is most like Himself. These are the gifts with which humanity was privileged, and if it fails in one of these, it must fall from its noble state. Sin is the only power that takes away man's freedom and his likeness to True Good, and makes him shine less brightly in Its light; nor can he win back his lost dignity unless the void left by tha sin be filled by just amends paid for illicit joy. Your nature, when it sinned once and for all in its first root, was exiled from these honors, as it was dispossessed of Paradise; nor could mankind recover what was lost, as you will see if you think carefully, except by crossing one of these two fords: either that God, simply through clemency, should give remission, or that man himself, to pay his debt of folly, should atone. Now fix your eyes on the infinity of the Eternal Counsel; listen well, as well as you are able, to my words. Given his limits, man could never make amends, never in his humility could man, obedient too late, descend as far as once, in disobedience, he tried to climb, and this is why mankind alone could not make his amends to God. Thus, it remained for God, in His own ways (his ways, I mean, in one of them or both) to bring man back to his integrity. But since the deed gratifies more the doer, the more it manifests the innate goodness of the good heart from which it springs--so, then, that Everlasting Goodness which has set its imprint on the world was pleased to use all of its means to raise you up once more. Between the final night and the first day no act so lofty, so magnificent was there, or shall there be, by either way, for God, Who gave Himself, gave even more so that mankind might raise itself again, than if He simply had annulled the debt; and any other means would have been less than Justice, if God's only Son had not humbled Himself to take on mortal flesh." (Paradise, Canto 7, The Portable Dante, pg 429-432). 

[Sower]

1 hour ago, Fidei Defensor said:

I am sorry your mother reposed beleiving works save, when it is by grace we are saved through faith in Christ. 

It is too bad your Mother was unable to read Dante’s Paradiso: 

“Now listen well, for what I have to say contains the doctrine of important

Actually, what was to bad, and really too sad, was her church, claiming leadership of all church's, and el popo, the supreme potentiate, above all, infallibility in all church dogma. Yeah Right.
And they couldn't even give my mom the simple child like true gospel of Jesus Christ, salvation by grace through faith, and not of works.  Why.
Because their church would no longer be 'indispensable' to their members for salvation, no longer needing a priest to confess sins to, no more high dollar masses said for loved ones to get out of purgatory, stations of the cross, rosaries, etc etc etc.
I heard the true gospel the first time in a small protestant church, after I left the RCC.
And the truth set me free. My mom was, and most of my relatives are still stubbornly faithful to the false preaching they heard all their life. They just can't leave.
And all the charity ever done will never wipe away the guilt of the church priest's and bishop's and cardinal's and pope's  false teaching to all the poor millions who trusted them with their souls......
 

[Fidei Defensor]

2 minutes ago, Sower said:

Actually, what was to bad, and really too sad, was her church, claiming leadership of all church's, and el popo, the supreme potentiate, above all, infallibility in all church dogma. Yeah Right.
And they couldn't even give my mom the simple child like true gospel of Jesus Christ, salvation by grace through faith, and not of works.  Why.
Because their church would no longer be 'indispensable' to their members for salvation, no longer needing a priest to confess sins to, no more high dollar masses said for loved ones to get out of purgatory, stations of the cross, rosaries, etc etc etc.
I heard the true gospel the first time in a small protestant church, after I left the RCC.
And the truth set me free. My mom was, and most of my relatives are still are stubbornly faithful to the false preaching they heard all their life. They just can't leave.
And all the charity ever done will never wipe away the guilt of the church priest's and bishop's and cardinal's and pope's  false teaching to all the poor millions who trusted them with their souls......
 

Surely the Lord will take into account those who were decieved: 

“Not many of you should be teachers my brothers, knowing that we will receive greater judgment.” (James 3:1) 

[Marathoner]

I'm in agreement with @leah777. I'm aware of many Protestant (or non-denominational) missions and charitable organizations which look after the needs of others. A block away from the transitional housing shelter where I work, a halfway house operated by an evangelical fellowship may be found. Once a week, staff and residents alike give away boxes of food to whomever asks for one. You'll hear them on street corners calling out, "Free food! Free food box!"

Heaven's Family, a non-denominational charity, comes to mind. I know of more than one brother and sister who have volunteered for missions overseen by Heaven's Family. Their work on the African continent stands out; they send brothers and sisters to Muslim-majority regions where the brethren are persecuted (and even put to death). They support the brethren in these places and preach the Gospel to Muslims, a calling from the Lord. Others teach people in famine-stricken areas how to farm and produce food. A worthy work indeed. 

All one has to do is look around to discover that Catholics do not monopolize charitable work. 





 

[Marathoner]

5 hours ago, Fidei Defensor said:

I afford that our Protestant denoms have not had as long to develop charities, my point by using the long history of Catholicism was to show they have always had a knack (know how) for tending to needs. It wasn’t intended to dwarf Protestant history, but to illustrate that Roman Catholics have had a track record of coming up with great solutions to needs. 

This needs to be said, brother. Are you aware of the history of Catholic mission work in the Americas? I would be remiss to remain silent while the voices of the voiceless are ignored, but they cry out and I can't help but hear them. I will speak for them. 

Do you recall the Catholic Indian Schools of Canada? My great-grandfather was forcibly taken from his family and tribe as a small child and imprisoned in a Catholic Indian school. He was given a "Christian" name and forced to learn and speak French, punished severely if he dared to speak his native language. This was the reason why my mother's side of the family was Roman Catholic (and also why the elders spoke French). They had no choice in the matter. 

Horrible abuse and great evil was perpetrated in those Catholic schools, brother. These weren't schools... they were internment camps. 

Behold the old Catholic mission churches which dot rural areas of New Mexico. I spent time in the old Spanish Land Grant country and witnessed first-hand the legacy of conquistadores who invaded the land and slaughtered the native inhabitants. Those whom they didn't slaughter were enslaved and put to work on ranches overseen by Catholic missions.

Babies were taken from the arms of their mothers by nuns, priests, and mercenaries funded by Rome in a manner similar to what happened in Canada two centuries later. The same unfolded in Central and South America... infants taken away from their families and homes so they wouldn't be reared as heathens. 

I'm not painting all Catholic charity work with the same brush, my friend, but the legacy of evil perpetrated by Rome continues to this day. I will speak for those they murdered and brutalized. 

 

Edited March 5, 2021 by Marathoner
typo

[Justin Adams]

It has to be said that the RCC did spread a tainted gospel. Just like MAO, the cohesiveness of the nation was used by God to spread His Message.

We do not EVER condone the actions of a twisted human sect, but we can see that the overall picture is used by the Lord even in the face of terrible travesties.

Ecumenism is a watering down of so much. The RCC, the Reformation, the various and sundry sects have one thing in common - some, and I mean SOME, have been reached for the spreading of the gospel.

God plays the long game always. He can see the end from the beginning. He is already at the END and is beckoning us all towards Him. We are saved in spite of ourselves and not because of ourselves. God is GOOD, all the time.

[Marathoner]

10 hours ago, Fidei Defensor said:

I see I cannot say one positive about Catholicism. I have made it clear I wish they had sound doctrine like us Protestants. 

I suppose this is the Church Christ comes back to; divided and at each others throat. 

Thanks for reminding me why I left these forums last time. 

Wnjoy your ptch fork, if you can find it in the logo you get extra points. 

I tire of being ganged up on, perhaps by the same person with sock accounts. Enjoy your quiet kingdom snd example to the world. 

Fair Well.. Christ be my judge. Thank God it is none of thee. 

My friend, you don't have to depart these forums. You aren't being judged. Have we had the opportunity to discuss the Anabaptists, persecuted by Protestant and Catholic authorities alike? Rome is not the source of all evil in this world, @Fidei Defensor, and Catholic mission work in the Americas is merely one subject. This is why I emphasized that I wasn't painting charitable work by Catholics with one brush.

I have said and written this before, that what the wicked intend for destruction the Lord purposes for good as it pleases Him. And this does indeed please Him for there is no other like the Almighty. Everything proceeds according to His will and purpose. 

The Lord keep you and bless you no matter where you go and what you do. I hope you choose to remain.  

[Marathoner]

We cannot comprehend the will of God nor His purpose under heaven unless it pleases Him to reveal this to His servants. Behold the charitable work of Protestants under the sun. It pleases the Lord that I share this so others may know that our Father in heaven will not be mocked. His will be done in all things, even in the face of great evil.  

In various locations throughout the United States, there was a time when various Protestant missions operated institutions for "delinquent" children approved and funded by local government. These were found in regions of the country known today as the "bible belt," an overwhelmingly Protestant and evangelical stronghold of the United States. 

During the latter half of the 1960's, a young unmarried woman was seized and subjected to unspeakable treatment by a small group of men. She was impregnated as a result and when her condition was discovered by her family of believers and the teachers at school, she was handed over to state authorities who imprisoned her in such a school for delinquent girls. It was operated and overseen by Protestants. 

While she was held there and awaited the birth of her child, this young woman was subjected to treatment of such a nature I will not divulge in detail. I wept and was torn apart to learn of what she endured at their hands. It was horrific. 

Each week during her incarceration the young woman was whisked into a room where she faced a panel of the faithful, administrators of the school who interrogated her and accused her of lasciviousness. She brought this upon herself and until she said precisely what they wanted to hear, the young woman would never be released. She would remain their prisoner. 

They dangled promises before her eyes in that room. They would help her raise her child... they would restore her to the good graces of society... she would eventually marry and lead a life approved by God. Over the span of months leading to the delivery of her first child she was eventually broken, realizing she had no choice but conform to their demands. The school was such a terrible place she was even willing to die just to get out of there.  

She wasn't alone in this predicament. There were many other girls incarcerated with her in this school operated by evangelicals.    

When the process of labor started, she was whisked to a local hospital to deliver her child. Delivery was traumatic for the young woman and she started bleeding, losing so much blood that her heart stopped beating in the delivery room. But the Lord had plans for this woman, and so after blood transfusions and heroic effort, medical staff were able to bring her back to life. Her heart started beating again. 

Her first child, a son, was taken from her arms and she never saw him again. He was adopted by a proper Christian family and never told about his mother. 

The faithful in that room lied to her most cruelly. They never intended to help her raise her son; conforming to their demands was therefore a bid to escape their grasp. She was successful in this venture and was released after she recovered from her ordeal in the delivery room. It was either that or she would take her own life... something she kept a secret from everyone, even her fellow prisoners in the home for delinquent girls. What went into one ear eventually made its way to the workers of iniquity in that room. 

What happened to this woman who grew up believing in Christ? She was traumatized by the experience and this, added to what she endured at the hands of her own family from the day she was born, led her to hate Christians --- and even the Lord --- with undying fury. She abandoned the faith and fancied herself a militant atheist later in life. It was nothing but a cruel lie in her eyes. 

She was my dearest friend on this earth. This was the woman whom the Lord brought me to in the wilderness and He loved her like no other. I was chosen by the Son of God to look after her, protect her, love her as He loves her, and stand as her son until she passed from this world. This was the greatest of His works I have yet to witness: her heart softened before it beat for the last time. 

I was there when her heart stopped beating. Yes, what the wicked intended for destruction the Lord purposed for the greatest good. The Lord gave her a son to take the place of the one who was taken out of her arms. May His name be blessed forevermore.    

Edited March 5, 2021 by Marathoner

[leah777]

1 minute ago, Marathoner said:

We cannot comprehend the will of God nor His purpose under heaven unless it pleases Him to reveal this to His servants. Behold the charitable work of Protestants under the sun. It pleases the Lord that I share this so others may know that our Father in heaven will not be mocked. His will be done in all things, even in the face of great evil.  

In various locations throughout the United States, there was a time when various Protestant missions operated institutions for "delinquent" children approved and funded by local government. These were found in regions of the country known today as the "bible belt," an overwhelmingly Protestant and evangelical stronghold of the United States. 

During the latter half of the 1960's, a young unmarried woman was seized and subjected to unspeakable treatment by a small group of men. She was impregnated as a result and when her condition was discovered by her family of believers and the teachers at school, she was handed over to state authorities who imprisoned her in such a school for delinquent girls. It was operated and overseen by Protestants. 

While she was held there and awaited the birth of her child, this young woman was subjected to treatment of such a nature I will not divulge in detail. I wept and was torn apart to learn of what she endured at their hands. It was horrific. 

Each week during her incarceration the young woman was whisked into a room where she faced a panel of the faithful, administrators of the school who interrogated her and accused her of lasciviousness. She brought this upon herself and until she said precisely what they wanted to hear, the young woman would never be released. She would remain their prisoner. 

They dangled promises before her eyes in that room. They would help her raise her child... they would restore her to the good graces of society... she would eventually marry and lead a life approved by God. Over the span of months leading to the delivery of her first child she was eventually broken, realizing she had no choice but conform to their demands. The school was such a terrible place she was even willing to die just to get out of there.  

She wasn't alone in this predicament. There were many other girls incarcerated with her in this school operated by evangelicals.    

When the process of labor started, she was whisked to a local hospital to deliver her child. Delivery was traumatic for the young woman and she started bleeding, losing so much blood that her heart stopped beating in the delivery room. But the Lord had plans for this woman, and so after blood transfusions and heroic effort, medical staff were able to bring her back to life. Her heart started beating again. 

Her first child, a son, was taken from her arms and she never saw him again. He was adopted by a proper Christian family and never told about his mother. 

The faithful in that room lied to her most cruelly. They never intended to help her raise her son; conforming to their demands was therefore a bid to escape their grasp. She was successful in this venture and was released after she recovered from her ordeal in the delivery room. It was either that or she would take her own life... something she kept that a secret from everyone, even her fellow prisoners in the home for delinquent girls. What went into one ear eventually made its way to the workers of iniquity in that room. 

What happened to this woman who grew up believing in Christ? She was traumatized by the experience and this, added to what she endured at the hands of her own family from the day she was born, led her to hate Christians --- and even the Lord --- with undying fury. She abandoned the faith and fancied herself a militant atheist later in life. It was nothing but a cruel lie in her eyes. 

She was my dearest friend on this earth. This was the woman whom the Lord brought me to in the wilderness and He loved her like no other. I was chosen by the Son of God to look after her, protect her, love her as He loves her, and stand as her son until she passed from this world. This was the greatest of His works I have yet to witness: her heart softened before it beat for the last time. 

I was there when her heart stopped beating. Yes, what the wicked intended for destruction the Lord purposed for the greatest good. The Lord gave her the son who was taken out of her arms. May His name be blessed forevermore.    

But this is not the charity which God want us to do, it is another example of pseudo Christianity.

There are many good charities of all denominations, by true Christians.

[Starise]

8 minutes ago, Marathoner said:

We cannot comprehend the will of God nor His purpose under heaven unless it pleases Him to reveal this to His servants. Behold the charitable work of Protestants under the sun. It pleases the Lord that I share this so others may know that our Father in heaven will not be mocked. His will be done in all things, even in the face of great evil.  

In various locations throughout the United States, there was a time when various Protestant missions operated institutions for "delinquent" children approved and funded by local government. These were found in regions of the country known today as the "bible belt," an overwhelmingly Protestant and evangelical stronghold of the United States. 

During the latter half of the 1960's, a young unmarried woman was seized and subjected to unspeakable treatment by a small group of men. She was impregnated as a result and when her condition was discovered by her family of believers and the teachers at school, she was handed over to state authorities who imprisoned her in such a school for delinquent girls. It was operated and overseen by Protestants. 

While she was held there and awaited the birth of her child, this young woman was subjected to treatment of such a nature I will not divulge in detail. I wept and was torn apart to learn of what she endured at their hands. It was horrific. 

Each week during her incarceration the young woman was whisked into a room where she faced a panel of the faithful, administrators of the school who interrogated her and accused her of lasciviousness. She brought this upon herself and until she said precisely what they wanted to hear, the young woman would never be released. She would remain their prisoner. 

They dangled promises before her eyes in that room. They would help her raise her child... they would restore her to the good graces of society... she would eventually marry and lead a life approved by God. Over the span of months leading to the delivery of her first child she was eventually broken, realizing she had no choice but conform to their demands. The school was such a terrible place she was even willing to die just to get out of there.  

She wasn't alone in this predicament. There were many other girls incarcerated with her in this school operated by evangelicals.    

When the process of labor started, she was whisked to a local hospital to deliver her child. Delivery was traumatic for the young woman and she started bleeding, losing so much blood that her heart stopped beating in the delivery room. But the Lord had plans for this woman, and so after blood transfusions and heroic effort, medical staff were able to bring her back to life. Her heart started beating again. 

Her first child, a son, was taken from her arms and she never saw him again. He was adopted by a proper Christian family and never told about his mother. 

The faithful in that room lied to her most cruelly. They never intended to help her raise her son; conforming to their demands was therefore a bid to escape their grasp. She was successful in this venture and was released after she recovered from her ordeal in the delivery room. It was either that or she would take her own life... something she kept a secret from everyone, even her fellow prisoners in the home for delinquent girls. What went into one ear eventually made its way to the workers of iniquity in that room. 

What happened to this woman who grew up believing in Christ? She was traumatized by the experience and this, added to what she endured at the hands of her own family from the day she was born, led her to hate Christians --- and even the Lord --- with undying fury. She abandoned the faith and fancied herself a militant atheist later in life. It was nothing but a cruel lie in her eyes. 

She was my dearest friend on this earth. This was the woman whom the Lord brought me to in the wilderness and He loved her like no other. I was chosen by the Son of God to look after her, protect her, love her as He loves her, and stand as her son until she passed from this world. This was the greatest of His works I have yet to witness: her heart softened before it beat for the last time. 

I was there when her heart stopped beating. Yes, what the wicked intended for destruction the Lord purposed for the greatest good. The Lord gave her the son who was taken out of her arms. May His name be blessed forevermore.    

This sounds like a classic example of intentional "breaking" a person. It's a form of sadistic brainwashing carried on by various satanic and cult organizations. It's satanic and I don't doubt it is in some locations posing as evangelical Christian charities.

Most unfortunate for her. People exposed to these sorts of things need to be especially loved and deprogrammed.