other one Posted September 5, 2018 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 597 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,116 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,847 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted September 5, 2018 15 minutes ago, Fidei Defensor said: I would advise against this apocryphal writing. It may excite curiosities but like the Book of Baranabas and other writings, there is little value. The 66 Canon of Old and New Testament is all we need and is God breathed (2 Timothy 3:16). I would agree with most other books, but 1 Enoch has been part of the Ethiopian Bible since it was first put together, and there are parts of many copies within the Dead Sea Scrolls. the other two books of Enoch I would agree and 3 Enoch was written by Jewish Rabbi's and it basically Babylonian Mysticism. And the Bible speaks of the knowledge that the book contains and pretty much quotes it..... Other apocryphal writings I would agree with you. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fidei Defensor Posted September 5, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 18 Topic Count: 165 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 3,997 Content Per Day: 1.56 Reputation: 2,607 Days Won: 15 Joined: 04/29/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted September 5, 2018 2 hours ago, other one said: I would agree with most other books, but 1 Enoch has been part of the Ethiopian Bible since it was first put together, and there are parts of many copies within the Dead Sea Scrolls. the other two books of Enoch I would agree and 3 Enoch was written by Jewish Rabbi's and it basically Babylonian Mysticism. And the Bible speaks of the knowledge that the book contains and pretty much quotes it..... Other apocryphal writings I would agree with you. That was my concern, that the Book of Enoch will make readers curious to read the mystical Enoch books. I know you and I can differentiate as can others, but for someone it can become the beginning of a trail that leads into dangerous reads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTC Posted September 5, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 18 Topic Count: 200 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 2,795 Content Per Day: 0.65 Reputation: 1,502 Days Won: 1 Joined: 06/25/2012 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/26/1952 Share Posted September 5, 2018 3 hours ago, Still Alive said: I was watching a youtube video about the book and thought it was somewhat interesting and that I might want to do more research. But then the guy got into this crazy "flat earth - becuase the earth is 'special'" nonsense. I wanted to comment but, alas, as with all unsupportable videos, comments were disabled. Enoch is an ancient book, no doubt. It may even have some truth in it, just as there is some truth in a Stephen King novel. But there is no reason to think it should be canonical. You can get a feel for the current culture by reading a Stephen King novel. Same can be said for this book. But don't take it to seriously regarding any doctrine. I don't think Enoch 1 is canon but it's quite useful, only after you know the Bible very, very well. Enoch 2 and 3 are a waste of time. All the epistle writers made a reference to Enoch 1 so they were familiar with it. It does raise more questions we can't answer which is another reason only mature Christians should read it. I like that it explains Genesis ch 6, but remember the fallen angels (like all angels) have super knowledge compared to us even today. All Enoch could assume is that the fallen angels had intercourse with our women but maybe they used technology to make them pregnant. Somehow, they did it and the result was ungodly giants. Those giants did things God doesn't want us to know about, so I don't recommend looking into it. But the type of sins they committed as well as the sheer number of sins was so horrible that God destroyed all life except for Noah and who was on the ark. God really hates having to destroy what He created but they left Him with no other choice. When I was a new Christian I didn't understand this so I often felt God has a mean streak in Him. But He doesn't. If I had sons in this life and they did what the Nephilim were doing I can see where I'd have to kill my own children. I'd do it with tears and sorrow but I'd have to stop them. God isn't mean and thanks to Enoch 1 I now understand that. But it isn't canon nor should it be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted September 6, 2018 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 597 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,116 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,847 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted September 6, 2018 12 hours ago, Fidei Defensor said: That was my concern, that the Book of Enoch will make readers curious to read the mystical Enoch books. I know you and I can differentiate as can others, but for someone it can become the beginning of a trail that leads into dangerous reads. they will never learn to differentiate if they don't read other things.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennis1209 Posted September 6, 2018 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 18 Topic Count: 347 Topics Per Day: 0.13 Content Count: 7,466 Content Per Day: 2.70 Reputation: 5,378 Days Won: 1 Joined: 09/27/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted September 6, 2018 18 hours ago, other one said: I would agree with most other books, but 1 Enoch has been part of the Ethiopian Bible since it was first put together, and there are parts of many copies within the Dead Sea Scrolls. the other two books of Enoch I would agree and 3 Enoch was written by Jewish Rabbi's and it basically Babylonian Mysticism. And the Bible speaks of the knowledge that the book contains and pretty much quotes it..... Other apocryphal writings I would agree with you. Just my personal thoughts on extra biblical texts. I might compare them with "The Works of Flavis Josephus" the first century secular Jewish historian, whom was extremely detailed and accurate in history. We don't consider his works divine or inspired, but to get a first hand secular historical account and details you can't get anywhere else. With that said: I would agree with you. Apparently the Apostles had to be very familiar with 1 Enoch, Jude (half brother of Jesus) even quotes a part verbatim (Jude 14-15 / 1 Enoch Chp. 1). If an Apostle directly quotes something and directs our attention to it, it was inspired and we should take note. On the flip side, it could have been used by Jude as a secular example to the people of the time who were familiar with the Book of Enoch to make a particular point. Of which I'm starting to side with but still on the fence. The Book of Enoch was lost during periods of history I believe (the Bible was not ever lost), and was also included with some translations of the Canon as part of our Bible. Few Christians would debate our Holy Bible is 100% accurate, divinely inspired, God breathed and preserved for all time. The 66 Books of the Bible that makes up our Bible today (non Catholic, etc.) is complete and what God intended for us to have by divine inspiration. Therefore, inspired godly men involved in putting together our Bible, under the conviction of the Holy Spirit, chose not to include it in the Canon for a reason. That reason I assume, would be that the Book of Enoch was not divinely inspired and has errors. That doesn't mean the entire book is in error, but is not inspired and 100% accurate or intended to be part of our Bible. As such, we don't give it the weight of scripture but can be useful in our studies. Again, I'm not dogmatic in my opinion, but this is where I'm at in my current studies and understandings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTC Posted September 6, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 18 Topic Count: 200 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 2,795 Content Per Day: 0.65 Reputation: 1,502 Days Won: 1 Joined: 06/25/2012 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/26/1952 Share Posted September 6, 2018 (edited) 4 hours ago, other one said: they will never learn to differentiate if they don't read other things.... This is true but Fidei also has a valid point. And this is why I say don't read Enoch until you become very mature in the Lord. The kind of maturity I'm talking about only comes with both time and much Bible reading. You have to do both. You have to spend lots of time in the scriptures and after 20 or 30 years you should be mature. If you're not then you were never serious about God in the first place. An example of what I mean is all the hundreds of thousands of people that answered alter calls in the 1960's thru the 80's. If most of them were sincere America should have become a holy country where the law of the land is God's rules. Instead we legalized abortion so we kill babies and sell body parts, living together without marriage became common and acceptable until one person leaves then the screaming starts, and now we legally marry same sex couples, and half the population doesn't even see a problem. This is the opposite of what should have happened. God help us. Edited September 6, 2018 by JTC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted September 6, 2018 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 597 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,116 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,847 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted September 6, 2018 24 minutes ago, Dennis1209 said: Just my personal thoughts on extra biblical texts. I might compare them with "The Works of Flavis Josephus" the first century secular Jewish historian, whom was extremely detailed and accurate in history. We don't consider his works divine or inspired, but to get a first hand secular historical account and details you can't get anywhere else. With that said: I would agree with you. Apparently the Apostles had to be very familiar with 1 Enoch, Jude (half brother of Jesus) even quotes a part verbatim (Jude 14-15 / 1 Enoch Chp. 1). If an Apostle directly quotes something and directs our attention to it, it was inspired and we should take note. On the flip side, it could have been used by Jude as a secular example to the people of the time who were familiar with the Book of Enoch to make a particular point. Of which I'm starting to side with but still on the fence. The Book of Enoch was lost during periods of history I believe (the Bible was not ever lost), and was also included with some translations of the Canon as part of our Bible. Few Christians would debate our Holy Bible is 100% accurate, divinely inspired, God breathed and preserved for all time. The 66 Books of the Bible that makes up our Bible today (non Catholic, etc.) is complete and what God intended for us to have by divine inspiration. Therefore, inspired godly men involved in putting together our Bible, under the conviction of the Holy Spirit, chose not to include it in the Canon for a reason. That reason I assume, would be that the Book of Enoch was not divinely inspired and has errors. That doesn't mean the entire book is in error, but is not inspired and 100% accurate or intended to be part of our Bible. As such, we don't give it the weight of scripture but can be useful in our studies. Again, I'm not dogmatic in my opinion, but this is where I'm at in my current studies and understandings. Enoch 1 has always been in the Ethiopian Bible. It was not lost, it was suppressed.... and is still being suppressed by a lot of Christians. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennis1209 Posted September 6, 2018 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 18 Topic Count: 347 Topics Per Day: 0.13 Content Count: 7,466 Content Per Day: 2.70 Reputation: 5,378 Days Won: 1 Joined: 09/27/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted September 6, 2018 2 minutes ago, other one said: Enoch 1 has always been in the Ethiopian Bible. It was not lost, it was suppressed.... and is still being suppressed by a lot of Christians. Yes. If memory serves, that's how and where it was rediscovered again. Correct me if my memory is incorrect. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted September 6, 2018 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 597 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,116 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,847 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted September 6, 2018 25 minutes ago, JTC said: This is true but Fidei also has a valid point. And this is why I say don't read Enoch until you become very mature in the Lord. The kind of maturity I'm talking about only comes with both time and much Bible reading. You have to do both. You have to spend lots of time in the scriptures and after 20 or 30 years you should be mature. If you're not then you were never serious about God in the first place. An example of what I mean is all the hundreds of thousands of people that answered alter calls in the 1960's thru the 80's. If most of them were sincere America should have become a holy country where the law of the land is God's rules. Instead we legalized abortion so we kill babies and sell body parts, living together without marriage became common and acceptable until one person leaves then the screaming starts, and now we legally marry same sex couples, and half the population doesn't even see a problem. This is the opposite of what should have happened. God help us. understand that 7 unelected people legalized abortion.... not the whole country..... same with same sex marriages but with only 5.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTC Posted September 6, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 18 Topic Count: 200 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 2,795 Content Per Day: 0.65 Reputation: 1,502 Days Won: 1 Joined: 06/25/2012 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/26/1952 Share Posted September 6, 2018 1 hour ago, other one said: understand that 7 unelected people legalized abortion.... not the whole country..... same with same sex marriages but with only 5.... I don't know these figures but I'll take your word for it. The fact remains too many people don't oppose this stuff. I'm one of the few from our generation that admits we were largely responsible for all this. I remember as a young man thinking that if casual sex was acceptable life would be great. I was so wrong. And I was wrong in ways that never occurred to me. Today we can see how loosening up the morals of our country has spiraled out of control. We're now in a situation where the only hope is God raises up some brave young people who bring morality back. We need a Moses of morality. A young person to cry out that my people need morals. I know it seems unlikely but who would have gambled on an ex- Egyptian saving the ancient Jews from a life of slavery. Today our people are slaves to immorality. For me the pathetic part is at 28 I realized I didn't enjoy casual sex anyway. Two years later I was saved and then saw it as nothing but sin. Now I'm trying to help change things back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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