Apostles and Prophets

[GandalfTheWise]

30 some years ago, I had the privilege of being able to spend some time in a small group of campus ministers with a man in his late 70s or early 80s who had spent most of his life in Africa as a missionary.  He told stories of the miracles He had seen over a couple decades in the mission field.  He struck me as a credible man of integrity that was not prone to exaggeration or lying.  Frankly, it was book of Acts type of stuff.  This was not somebody who spent his time speaking in stadiums or to large groups but spent many years out in the bush and jungle where missionaries had never been before.  He then spent the later years of his life as a mentor and leader for younger missionaries and pastors.  He was a popular preacher and in demand as a speaker when he was older, but I had the sense he much preferred being in smaller groups.  He wasn't describing miracles for the sake of miracles and glory, but rather people dying of incurable diseases being healed, a man (who later became the first pastor to his tribe) in an unreached tribe seeing a vision telling him to go find the white man they were all afraid of and hiding from, and things like that.  Again, 30 years ago so my memory is a bit hazy on details, but I'm relating the general tone of things correctly.

In my mind, arguing about whether or not people like this are missionaries, or apostles vs Apostles, or whatever we argue about what to call them, is secondary to God actually calling and sending people out with the gospel and confirming it with His sovereign hand on them.

 

[firestormx]

5 minutes ago, Marilyn C said:

The seventh of these perfect characteristics of Apostolic ministry is the - Quality of Blending. This is its relationship to the ministry of the other ascension gifts (Epf. 4: 11). It is the keystone of the arch of ministry interlocking all into a divine unity through which souls pass into the spiritual temple of God. Mature Apostolic ministry often exhibits characteristics of all four ministries of Prophet, Evangelist, Pastor and Teacher, which enables the Apostle to enter into the experiences of the others so that he may pioneer a way in divine leadership, and that they might be blended in operation.

 

Marilyn

2

Thank you for taking the time to share this. I will prayerfully consider all you have typed. Thanks again

[Marilyn C]

Just now, Cobalt1959 said:

I was in a Pentecostal Assemblies of God Church for 10 years.  Knew nothing about the Pentecostal movement going in. except people made fun of it.  I was actively involved in the ministry there until they began emphasizing tongues over and above everything else.  This is the problem when everything is based on emotion and experience even to the exclusion or pushing to the back burner sound doctrine and teaching.  I saw absolutely no tangible benefits to messages in tongues, the interpretation of same of prophetic utterances people gave.  What is needed beyond the revelation we already have in God's Word?

When it comes to the NAR, just Google Bill Johnson, Bethel and learn more.

 

Hi Cobalt,

I so agree. In general the Pentecostal movement has run its course and gone off the rails. Also the NAR, (New Apostolic Reformation) is soooooo poisonous it is down right dangerous - telling others that `we together can transform the world!!!!` So full of man and the devil`s direction.

Marilyn.

[firestormx]

9 minutes ago, Cobalt1959 said:

I was in a Pentecostal Assemblies of God Church for 10 years.  Knew nothing about the Pentecostal movement going in. except people made fun of it.  I was actively involved in the ministry there until they began emphasizing tongues over and above everything else.  This is the problem when everything is based on emotion and experience even to the exclusion or pushing to the back burner sound doctrine and teaching.  I saw absolutely no tangible benefits to messages in tongues, the interpretation of same of prophetic utterances people gave.  What is needed beyond the revelation we already have in God's Word?

When it comes to the NAR, just Google Bill Johnson, Bethel and learn more.

 

Thanks, when I'm at a place of peace over this I will look this movement and these people up. Thanks for the info and the chat.

[KiwiChristian]

Absolutly not.

 

Apostles were first-hand witnesses of Christ.

 

They left us the Word of God.

 

we no longer need them.

 

[Marilyn C]

47 minutes ago, KiwiChristian said:

Absolutly not.

Apostles were first-hand witnesses of Christ.

They left us the Word of God.

we no longer need them.

 

Hi Kiwi,

You may think that however I do not see any scriptures to back up your comments, there bro.

You may like to consider -

`And He (Christ) Himself gave some to be apostles and some prophets, some evangelists and some pastors and teachers, for the equipping of the saints for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the Body of Christ, TILL we all come to the unity of the faith, and the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ.` (Eph. 4: 11 - 13)

Do we still need equipping? Have we reached the unity of the faith?

`Paul, Silvanus and Timothy.....nor did WE seek glory from men, either from you or from others, when WE might have made demands as APOSTLES of Christ.` (1 Thess. 1: 1,  2: 6)

Clearly the Lord gave ascension ministries to the early Church and down through the ages also....till we all come to the unity of the faith.

regards, Marilyn. 

[KiwiChristian]

5 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi Kiwi,

You may think that however I do not see any scriptures to back up your comments, there bro.

You may like to consider -

`And He (Christ) Himself gave some to be apostles and some prophets, some evangelists and some pastors and teachers, for the equipping of the saints for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the Body of Christ, TILL we all come to the unity of the faith, and the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ.` (Eph. 4: 11 - 13)

Do we still need equipping? Have we reached the unity of the faith?

`Paul, Silvanus and Timothy.....nor did WE seek glory from men, either from you or from others, when WE might have made demands as APOSTLES of Christ.` (1 Thess. 1: 1,  2: 6)

Clearly the Lord gave ascension ministries to the early Church and down through the ages also....till we all come to the unity of the faith.

regards, Marilyn. 

heh. the HOLY SPIRIT equips us!

 

Plus, the apostles had SIGNS to PROVE their authority.

 

These modern-day fools have NOTHING!

 

NEITHER are they first hand witnesses of Christ.

[enoob57]

On ‎8‎/‎28‎/‎2017 at 1:32 AM, Marilyn C said:

Now there are many Apostles mentioned in the New Testament. eg. 1 Thess. 1: 1 & 2: 6 show that Paul, Silvanus and Timothy were Apostles. The main aspect of an Apostle would be His Christ-likeness. Christ exhibits Himself in a marked way through these people. They are not CEO`s of organisations as people try to label their leaders. Often the Apostle will exhibit many of the other ministries, eg prophet, teacher, etc. And may I say that all over the world the Lord, the Head of the Body will have these individuals building up His body, & often where the media and public eye does not see. These Apostles are humble people, & not making money selling their tapes, books etc.

One of the major elements of God's Word is to take upon that last of hermeneutical steps the whole council of God Gen-Rev and the above has failed in that necessity... We know Paul was taken by the Lord on the back side of Arabia and given the revelation of The Lord's life by these truths

1 Corinthians 15:8 (KJV)

[8] And last of all he was seen of me also, as of one born out of due time.

[9] For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.

Paul knew the requirements of being called an Apostle according to The Lord

Luke 6:13 (KJV)

[13] And when it was day, he called unto him his disciples: and of them he chose twelve, whom also he named apostles;

These twelve Paul was in his own mind least because of the murderous heart he had had toward the children of God... but never the less because of the requirements were met

Acts 1:21 (KJV)

[21] Wherefore of these men which have companied with us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us,

[22] Beginning from the baptism of John, unto that same day that he was taken up from us, must one be ordained to be a witness with us of his resurrection.

[23] And they appointed two, Joseph called Barsabas, who was surnamed Justus, and Matthias.

[24] And they prayed, and said, Thou, Lord, which knowest the hearts of all men, shew whether of these two thou hast chosen,

[25] That he may take part of this ministry and apostleship, from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place.

[26] And they gave forth their lots; and the lot fell upon Matthias; and he was numbered with the eleven apostles.

Clearly to take the 1Thes passages you cited and ignore this linage of thought above would be error to do so IMHO... the plural aspect does not reflect upon the list of Silvanus, and Timotheus, unto the church of the Thessalonians but of the actual distinctions given... to convolute Scripture is to insert meanings that cannot be stated as thus sayeth The Lord and in doing so is to remove precious divisions that are to be rightly divided within it.
Love, Steven

[hmbld]

1 hour ago, KiwiChristian said:

heh. the HOLY S

These modern-day fools have NOTHING!

 

NEITHER are they first hand witnesses of Christ.

We can discus without putting ourselves over one another. Let each esteem others better. 

[Heleadethme]

14 hours ago, Davida said:

Personally , I don't think that there are any Apostles or Bishops in the present. Paul was the last made Apostle imo.  I have met several who called themselves that and it made me more convinced this has ceased.  I was in a Church were the audience stood up and clapped and cheered for their "Bishop"  I felt very sick in my spirit and I did not cheer & clap I felt that glory was for the LORD GOD & the Lord Jesus Christ, it was not for him.

I agree with you sister, it is sick.......and it's hard not to get discouraged about these things sometimes, the things we are seeing in the church......but it's only because they are men of renown....which are never spoken well of in the bible.....that they are the most visible........because they crave the limelight (and the perks that come with it) instead of shunning it.  Those who are truly of Christ will just simply be found quietly doing the work of an apostle, doing the work of a prophet, doing the work of an evangelist,  or whatever gifts and callings a person is given.  Just that it is rare to see........especially since the flock is scattered in the last days, the Body of Christ cannot really function as a Body when it is so scattered.  Have a hunch that persecution is what will gather His true flock together.......even if we are being gathered into jail cells or concentration camps.  His light is going to arise and shine again in the deep darkness....the Lord will see to it.....somehow.  Meanwhile it is a time of being prepared.  The devil has done a work in causing the church to fall away, but I believe in His own good time, the Lord will reply to it.......because He is coming for His true church victorious......and how can we be victorious if there is no battle to fight.  There are groups who don't believe God does miracles today, for the simple reason that they never see any......but I just have to believe that even though we may not ourselves personally see everything the bible speaks of yet or even in our whole life, doesn't nullify one word of scripture.