Barna Study - Divorce Rate HIGHER with Christians vs Aheists

[other one]

2 hours ago, Neighbor said:

 

Why else would someone marry other than over sexual desire?

 

 1 Corinthians 

Principles for Marriage

7 Now concerning the matters about which you wrote: “It is good for a man not to have sexual relations with a woman.”  But because of the temptation to sexual immorality, each man should have his own wife and each woman her own husband.  The husband should give to his wife her conjugal rights, and likewise the wife to her husband.  For the wife does not have authority over her own body, but the husband does. Likewise the husband does not have authority over his own body, but the wife does. ⁵ Do not deprive one another, except perhaps by agreement for a limited time, that you may devote yourselves to prayer; but then come together again, so that Satan may not tempt you because of your lack of self-control.

 Now as a concession, not a command, I say this.  I wish that all were as I myself am. But each has his own gift from God, one of one kind and one of another.

 To the unmarried and the widows I say that it is good for them to remain single, as I am. But if they cannot exercise self-control, they should marry. For it is better to marry than to burn with passion.

To the married I give this charge (not I, but the Lord): the wife should not separate from her husband  (but if she does, she should remain unmarried or else be reconciled to her husband), and the husband should not divorce his wife.

 To the rest I say (I, not the Lord) that if any brother has a wife who is an unbeliever, and she consents to live with him, he should not divorce her.  If any woman has a husband who is an unbeliever, and he consents to live with her, she should not divorce him. ¹⁴ For the unbelieving husband is made holy because of his wife, and the unbelieving wife is made holy because of her husband. Otherwise your children would be unclean, but as it is, they are holy.  But if the unbelieving partner separates, let it be so. In such cases the brother or sister is not enslaved. God has called you to peace. For how do you know, wife, whether you will save your husband? Or how do you know, husband, whether you will save your wife?

Live as You Are Called

 Only let each person lead the life that the Lord has assigned to him, and to which God has called him....

You should meet my wife.

[Wayne222]

4 hours ago, Cobalt1959 said:

False.

Why false ?

[Willa]

Ok.  We have been married for some 54 years.  I was a stupid 18 year old when we were married, and he was an unbeliever although I tried to rationalize otherwise.  He was finally saved 11 years later.  The last 4 I prayed for him night and day.  The more I prayed for him, the more God changed me to be a godly wife.  God made him into an example for our sons.  We immediately became prayer parters.  He still is the priest in our home, praying for me, out sons and grandchildren.  I wonder how many of the homes that go through divorce pray for each other daily in conversational prayer, one after the other with the husband leading.  

Yes forgiveness is a big thing.  But self righteousness is as well.  I know some men who think they are always right.  Insufferable.  They somehow ignore those passages in the Bible on how a husband is to treat his spouse.  One told his wife to cancel her surgery because they were having houseguests!  No compassion at all for her suffering.  They had been very strong evangelical Christians but she was extremely lonely.  They shared no true fellowship in the Lord.  

I am not at all pointing a finger at anyone here.  But it is true that we are only hear one side of the story.  In the case of my friends, he drove her away.  No, it was not an excuse.  But the last time I saw him he had not changed.  It was "my way or the highway" on any subject and he could not be reasoned with even when his pastors told him otherwise.  She chose the highway.  Humility is open to reproof--a teachable spirit.   Desert SW, I don't see that to be your problem but I don't know you well.

 Other people have been told to divorce by the courts for the protection of children.  Some men get enslaved to porn which is adultery in the definition of Jesus.  Some women watch too many soap operas and their minds are conformed to the world.  Garbage in garbage out.  But there is always a reason.

[missmuffet]

On 9/3/2017 at 6:09 PM, DesertSW said:

Barna study shows that the Christian divorce rate is HIGHER than atheists and non-believers. Sitting at around 32%-33%. While Atheists are around 30%

Barna Divorce Study (click here for Barna link)

Being a victim of a divorce just 1 years ago myself. I was shocked and dismayed when my Christian wife left me with no warning and divorced me with no attempt to seek Christian counseling. Without side tracking this post, there was no abuse, no infidelity, nothing that would justify a divorce. Four professional Christian counselors came to this conclusion. She gave no reason except she wanted to start over and was happier living in another state. I posted more on my personal divorce in the "Struggling" forum, if you want to read more about it, please post there.

So getting back to this topic. Why are Christians divorcing at such an alarming rate? Why doesn't the Body of Christ have a lower divorce vs unsaved atheists? '

You are saying " Christian" but you are not saying if these people are born again Christians or if they are counterfeit Christians.There is quite a difference. I would like to see a study done on born again  Christian couples who pray together everyday and who have given their marriage to God 100%.

[DesertSW]

1 hour ago, missmuffet said:

You are saying " Christian" but you are not saying if these people are born again Christians or if they are counterfeit Christians.There is quite a difference. I would like to see a study done on born again  Christian couples who pray together everyday and who have given their marriage to God 100%.

These are BORN AGAIN Christians. Barna, which is a Christian organization, did the study. The study showed that Born Again Christians divorced at rates of around 32% or basically 1 in 3 Born Again Christian marriages end in divorce.

According to the Barna study:
“Born again Christians” are defined as people who said they have made a personal commitment to Jesus Christ that is still important in their life today and who also indicated they believe that when they die they will go to Heaven because they had confessed their sins and had accepted Jesus Christ as their savior. Respondents are not asked to describe themselves as “born again.”

I've been a born-again believer for 25 years and I can tell you firsthand the stats are accurate and I've seen plenty of disappointments in the Christian realm. Being a victim myself of a divorce from a born again Christian wife, I never thought it would happen, but it did.

Not only did my ex-wife betray me, her vow to me, her vow to God but she betrayed the faith and God. Then to top it off her parents (both born-again Christian people who are active church elders) also betrayed me, God, and their faith by condoning the divorce and not intervening and trying to seek Godly restoration and healing for the both of us (their daughter and me the son-in-law).

So my world was shattered into 1,000 pieces after this happened. It was like a Mack Truck coming out of nowhere and plowing me over. I never saw it coming.

If you would have told me 2 years ago that my wife would leave me for no valid reason and her parents would sit by idle and do nothing. I wouldn't believe you and laugh at the mere idea. Well, sure enough, it happened and a year later after the divorce I am still in shock. I wake up each day in shock knowing that I am divorced and my wife is never coming back.

This was the biggest punch in the face in my 43 years of inhabiting this earth. I've been let down by born again Christians before, but this was #1. The other let downs were shockers also.

What I would tell a newly born again Christian is "don't get your hopes up about other born again Christians, they WILL let you down, they WILL deceive you, they WILL lie to you, they WILL break your heart and their vows, promises and their friendship". The whole idea or premise that is perpetuated by some that born again Christians are all loving and loyal to God, His Word and to other Christians is a LIE.

Yes, there are some born again Christians that are honorable, God loving & following and will love and honor other Christians for their entire earthly lives BUT they are sadly not the norm.

[DesertSW]

2 hours ago, Willa said:

 Humility is open to reproof--a teachable spirit.   Desert SW, I don't see that to be your problem but I don't know you well.

 

I have no reason to lie or hide the truth. I am being 100% honest. I have never cheated on my wife, never abused her, never got drunk, no drugs, no addictions, etc. I loved her like Christ loves the Church. I'm not perfect but I was a good and loving husband. Compared to what else is out there in the male Christian realm, I was a very good Christian husband.

She left and gave no reason except she was "happier" living in another state by her parents. She refused any and all attempts to reconcile the marriage by Godly means and Godly counseling. She even stated that her "choice" to divorce was not agreeable by everyone but it's "her life" and she could do as she chooses.

I have cards and letter from over 11 years of marriage, written by her, telling me that she loved me and that I was a good husband. They take up 2 shoeboxes (as I still have them in my possession). Then, at the divorce, she told her friends that she never loved me.

It's like a cruel nightmare but it's my reality.

Looking back, I grew as a Christian husband over our marriage, she as a Christian wife, did not. I never faulted her for it, I never even brought it up, but she as a Christian wife was not a very loving and godly women. It's sad but true. She even said she was a "bad wife" at times (her words-not mine) throughout our marriage. I never faulted her for it but she had her issues but refused to confront them or acknowledge them. Instead of trying to  change and become a better godly wife, she took the easy way out and pressed the "eject" divorce button and left the marriage.

It was easier in her mind to do that than to try and change and grow our marriage through Godly and Biblical means. I didn't bail, she did, I didn't leave, she did, I didn't want the divorce, she did, I didn't stop loving her, she stopped loving me.

 

Edited September 27, 2017 by DesertSW

[Reinitin]

On 9/3/2017 at 8:09 PM, DesertSW said:

Barna study shows that the Christian divorce rate is HIGHER than atheists and non-believers. Sitting at around 32%-33%. While Atheists are around 30%

Barna Divorce Study (click here for Barna link)

Being a victim of a divorce just 1 years ago myself. I was shocked and dismayed when my Christian wife left me with no warning and divorced me with no attempt to seek Christian counseling. Without side tracking this post, there was no abuse, no infidelity, nothing that would justify a divorce. Four professional Christian counselors came to this conclusion. She gave no reason except she wanted to start over and was happier living in another state. I posted more on my personal divorce in the "Struggling" forum, if you want to read more about it, please post there.

So getting back to this topic. Why are Christians divorcing at such an alarming rate? Why doesn't the Body of Christ have a lower divorce vs unsaved atheists? '

my humble opinion. Jezabel:) christians keep getting tricked and marrying men and women operating in a Jezebel Spirit. They wake up cause there is no peace with a Jezebel Spirit and when they figure it out they can't tolerate it:)

[Neighbor]

10 hours ago, Cobalt1959 said:

Seriously?

Absolutely.

All the components of a good marriage, except the one, can be found in relationships outside of marriage.

The absolute closest relationship component that makes marriage different from all others is to "become one". It is what makes union of a man and a woman sacred. That one component is to be a sacred privilege as well as  a responsibility for each partner of the marriage. It is the key component of marriage that makes it so devastating when violated. Yep, sex between the man and the woman God has provided, ever since the first wo-man was made of the man is the key component of marriage.

Now for the weakness of the man God has had to relent and give condition for exception, even then God established for His people some very specific  rules and precepts. Otherwise He would have had to destroy all, instead of saving a very few, in His wrath against man. He would have destroyed all of mankind for the violations by the man. God has given us historic example again and again in His patience and mercy even as He fulfilled the demands of His own perfection as God. 

The principle and component of the marriage that makes it unigue is the sexual union, and two become one.

Could any other relationship require the question (Matters), and the detailed answer to it that became part of the inspired of God word to mankind found in the letter to the church at Corinth from Paul, if it were not so that sex is the key component that makes marriage different  from all other relationships between humankind?

Principles for Marriage

 Now concerning the matters about which you wrote: “It is good for a man not to have sexual relations with a woman.”  But because of the temptation to sexual immorality, each man should have his own wife and each woman her own husband.  The husband should give to his wife her conjugal rights, and likewise the wife to her husband.  For the wife does not have authority over her own body, but the husband does. Likewise the husband does not have authority over his own body, but the wife does.  Do not deprive one another, except perhaps by agreement for a limited time, that you may devote yourselves to prayer; but then come together again, so that Satan may not tempt you because of your lack of self-control.

 Now as a concession, not a command, I say this. I wish that all were as I myself am. But each has his own gift from God, one of one kind and one of another.

 To the unmarried and the widows I say that it is good for them to remain single, as I am.  But if they cannot exercise self-control, they should marry. For it is better to marry than to burn with passion.

 To the married I give this charge (not I, but the Lord): the wife should not separate from her husband  (but if she does, she should remain unmarried or else be reconciled to her husband), and the husband should not divorce his wife.

To the rest I say (I, not the Lord) that if any brother has a wife who is an unbeliever, and she consents to live with him, he should not divorce her. If any woman has a husband who is an unbeliever, and he consents to live with her, she should not divorce him.  For the unbelieving husband is made holy because of his wife, and the unbelieving wife is made holy because of her husband. Otherwise your children would be unclean, but as it is, they are holy.  But if the unbelieving partner separates, let it be so. In such cases the brother or sister is not enslaved. God has called you to peace.  For how do you know, wife, whether you will save your husband? Or how do you know, husband, whether you will save your wife?

Live as You Are Called

 Only let each person lead the life that the Lord has assigned to him, and to which God has called him. This is my rule in all the churches.  Was anyone at the time of his call already circumcised? Let him not seek to remove the marks of circumcision. Was anyone at the time of his call uncircumcised? Let him not seek circumcision.  For neither circumcision counts for anything nor uncircumcision, but keeping the commandments of God.  Each one should remain in the condition in which he was called.  Were you a bondservant when called? Do not be concerned about it. (But if you can gain your freedom, avail yourself of the opportunity.)  For he who was called in the Lord as a bondservant is a freedman of the Lord. Likewise he who was free when called is a bondservant of Christ. You were bought with a price; do not become bondservants of men.  So, brothers, in whatever condition each was called, there let him remain with God.

The Unmarried and the Widowed

 Now concerning the betrothed, I have no command from the Lord, but I give my judgment as one who by the Lord's mercy is trustworthy.  I think that in view of the present distress it is good for a person to remain as he is.  Are you bound to a wife? Do not seek to be free. Are you free from a wife? Do not seek a wife.  But if you do marry, you have not sinned, and if a betrothed woman marries, she has not sinned. Yet those who marry will have worldly troubles, and I would spare you that.  This is what I mean, brothers: the appointed time has grown very short. From now on, let those who have wives live as though they had none,  and those who mourn as though they were not mourning, and those who rejoice as though they were not rejoicing, and those who buy as though they had no goods,  and those who deal with the world as though they had no dealings with it. For the present form of this world is passing away.

 I want you to be free from anxieties. The unmarried man is anxious about the things of the Lord, how to please the Lord.  But the married man is anxious about worldly things, how to please his wife,  and his interests are divided. And the unmarried or betrothed woman is anxious about the things of the Lord, how to be holy in body and spirit. But the married woman is anxious about worldly things, how to please her husband.  I say this for your own benefit, not to lay any restraint upon you, but to promote good order and to secure your undivided devotion to the Lord.

 If anyone thinks that he is not behaving properly toward his betrothed, if his passions are strong, and it has to be, let him do as he wishes: let them marry—it is no sin.  But whoever is firmly established in his heart, being under no necessity but having his desire under control, and has determined this in his heart, to keep her as his betrothed, he will do well.  So then he who marries his betrothed does well, and he who refrains from marriage will do even better.

A wife is bound to her husband as long as he lives. But if her husband dies, she is free to be married to whom she wishes, only in the Lord.  Yet in my judgment she is happier if she remains as she is. And I think that I too have the Spirit of God.

 

 

Edited September 27, 2017 by Neighbor

[Guest shiloh357]

On 9/3/2017 at 8:09 PM, DesertSW said:

Barna study shows that the Christian divorce rate is HIGHER than atheists and non-believers. Sitting at around 32%-33%. While Atheists are around 30%

Barna Divorce Study (click here for Barna link)

Being a victim of a divorce just 1 years ago myself. I was shocked and dismayed when my Christian wife left me with no warning and divorced me with no attempt to seek Christian counseling. Without side tracking this post, there was no abuse, no infidelity, nothing that would justify a divorce. Four professional Christian counselors came to this conclusion. She gave no reason except she wanted to start over and was happier living in another state. I posted more on my personal divorce in the "Struggling" forum, if you want to read more about it, please post there.

So getting back to this topic. Why are Christians divorcing at such an alarming rate? Why doesn't the Body of Christ have a lower divorce vs unsaved atheists? '

I don't think the Barna study differentiated between those who claim to be "Christian"  and those who are committed followers of Jesus.   Lot's people belong to the Christian religion, but that doesn't mean they are followers of Christ.  They participate in the external Christian community, but that is as far as it gets.   We need to take into account the reality of "cultural Christianity,"  a form of Christianity that does not have Christ in it.

If the study filtered out those who pay lip service to Christianity and those who only serve the religion, the numbers would be quite different.   If Barna drilled down to committed followers of Jesus, the divorce rate is much, much lower.

[Neighbor]

On 9/3/2017 at 9:49 PM, Wayne222 said:

Your wife did not take the word of God to heart. Except for sexually immorality you cannot divorce.  There might be other reasons like wife beating and cruelty. But only adultery can someone get remarried under the Lord. God will not honor a remarried couple otherwise. But in this time we live in its hard to find a true mate. I think the media has sold a lifestyle that's says do what you like if it makes you happy.

"I think the media has sold a lifestyle that's says do what you like if it makes you happy."

 Hi, I have to pick on you too Wayne, sorry. Please allow me the following  as my reason;

I find myself at odds with the idea that there is excuse to be found in others, or a generic "media".  Even the media blames the media for all things that  is a fault or perceived as being a fault. Yet there has always been sin since the fall from grace and from innocence of the first Adam. And even the first Adam tried to put blame on  something other than himself. He blamed that which God had made  of his own flesh! There just is no excuse sufficient to escape direct full and personal blame for all that man does wrong, including violating the sacredness of marriage.

Regarding marriage; the sin always always involves sex. It may manifest in additional violence or acts of cruelty, but it always starts with the error of David ( not following the instruction from God) and then leads straight to illicit sex. It is not the media's fault at all. For if a man is following God he will not find himself idle, nor his mind focusing on how nice it will be to reach out beyond God's will for him. Had David followed God's will for him and not sent others out to do his battle instead, David would not have been then tempted to sin further with illicit sex.

Everyman, every one of us has only self to blame, no one can  blame any other!  God has given each man  the ability to fulfill His desire of and for each of us, that we do all that we do to His Glory. When we fail  it is horrible for us, but we cannot shift the responsibility successfully  away from us. We must own it and seek  forgiveness from God and make as full a restitution as we can to the individual (s)  hurt by our sin against God, hoping for forgiveness of the one we also sinned against in addition to God. If we cannot receive that forgiveness, then we need suffer the consquence of our own sin fully knowing it has always been us personally that have failed God, not a media.

Unfortunately though  each man owns his sin , his sin does affect in addition to himself all of his household, even to a grandchild or great grandchild. Entire families are disrupted and even destroyed. And not by media, but by man not listening reading praying and following God.

Edited September 27, 2017 by Neighbor