Inquiring into the "Rapture"

[Justin Adams]

I am so confused by all the back and forth on this rapture subject, that I would like your opinions please.

Robert Cameron: "Now, be it remembered, that prior to that date, no hint of any approach to such belief can be found in any Christian literature from Polycarp down.... Surely, a doctrine that finds no exponent or advocate in the whole history and literature of Christendom, for eighteen hundred years after the founding of the Church...

I cannot find too much on the original writings of Mr. Darby, but I have excerpts here. I have seen so much 'discussion' about various rapture theories, that I  would like some clarifications and would really like to know more truth about this subject. 
It seems as though this had never been heard of at all before 1830-50.

The following is negative towards Mr. Darby's position.
However, ignoring that and the poor grammar and spelling, please comment on the subject that it discusses.
Source: http://www.bible.ca/rapture-origin-john-nelson-darby-1830ad.htm

_______________________________________________________________________

1. John Nelson Darby invented the false doctrine of the Rapture 1830-1833 AD and popularized it in 1850 to which it infected us today. While Morgan Edwards had also invented the doctrine in a college essay in 1744 AD, his work was isolated, forgotten and irrelevant as an etiology of the modern popularity of pre-tribulation Rapture doctrine. Darby invented the doctrine without any influence or reliance on Edwards.

2. Morgan Edwards wrote this short essay as a paper for Bristol Baptist College in Bristol England in 1744. After he immigrated to the USA, the essay was published in Philadelphia in 1788. It is clear that his school paper went as unnoticed as his formal publication in 1788 AD. While Edwards may in fact be the earliest person on earth to invent the pre-tribulation rapture, it is equally clear that Darby invented the same doctrine in 1830 AD and made it popular (100??) years later in 1850 AD.
"The distance between the first and second resurrection will be somewhat more than a thousand years.: I say, somewhat more; because the dead saints will be raised, and the living changed at Christ's "appearing in the air" (1 Thes. iv, 17); and this will be about three years and a half before the millennium, as we shall see hereafter: but will he and they abide in the air all that time? No: they will ascend to paradise, or to some one of those many "mansions in the father's house of God" (John xiv: 2), and to disappear during the foresaid period of time. ... V. That spot of earth which. Christ will make the seat of his governments Mount Zion, in Jerusalem. Jerusalem and the temple will be rebuilt, as we shall prove by and by and that temple will be the house of Christ kingdom. ... VI. The risen and changed saints shall reign with Christ on earth a thousand years. I do not mean that all will be kings; for some are to be Christ' s priests, some judges, some rulers over cities, some over his household, some over his goods, (as wee shall see anon) and some his special chorister and musicians. (Two Academical Exercises on Subjects Bearing the following Titles; Millennium, Last-Novelties, Morgan Edwards, 1744 AD, 1788 AD)

3. Darby notes that the doctrine "popped into his head" in 1830 AD. Before this, no one had ever heard of a secret rapture doctrine.

4. Darby is one of the founders of the "Plymouth Brethren" movement at the same time he first conceived his rapture theology. Therefore the Plymouth Brethren are inseparable from Rapture theology and always will be and should be avoided.

5. Modern influences of Darby include Dallas Theological Seminary, Bob Jones University, Hal Lindsey, Tim LaHaye,  Jack Van Impe and Harold Camping, the Scofield Reference Bible.

6. Darby's Rapture theology has infected almost every conservative protestant church, except for a few groups like the Churches of Christ, who rejected it as a non-Biblical doctrine and have denounced it ever since like all other man made doctrines.

-------Further points

6. "Until brought to the fore through the writings and preaching and teaching of a distinguished ex-clergyman, Mr J. N. Darby, in the early part of the last century, it [rapture theology] is scarcely to be found in a single book or sermon through a period of sixteen hundred years". [230-1830 AD] (Harry Ironside, The Mysteries Of God, 1908).

7. "About 1830 a new school arose within the fold of Premillennialism that sought to overthrow what, since the Apostolic Age, have been considered by all premillennialist as established results, and to institute in their place a series of doctrines that had never been heard of before. The school I refer to is that of 'The Brethren' or 'Plymouth Brethren,' founded by J. N. Darby." (Alexander Reese, The Approaching Advent of Christ, page 18)

8. Robert Cameron: "Now, be it remembered, that prior to that date, no hint of any approach to such belief can be found in any Christian literature from Polycarp down.... Surely, a doctrine that finds no exponent or advocate in the whole history and literature of Christendom, for eighteen hundred years after the founding of the Church - a doctrine that was never taught by a Father or Doctor of the Church in the past - that has no standard Commentator or Professor of the Greek language in any Theological School until the middle of the Nineteenth century, to give it approval, and that is without a friend, even to mention its name amongst the orthodox teachers or the heretical sects of Christendom - such a fatherless and motherless doctrine, when it rises to the front, demanding universal acceptance, ought to undergo careful scrutiny before it is admitted and tabulated as part of 'the faith once for all delivered unto the saints." (Robert Cameron, Scriptural Truth About The Lord's Return, page 72-73).

9. E. R. Sandeen: "Darby introduced into discussion at Powerscourt (1833) the ideas of a secret rapture of the church and of a parenthesis in prophetic fulfillment between the sixty-ninth and seventieth weeks of Daniel. These two concepts constituted the basic tenets of the system of theology since referred to as dispensationalism" (E.R. Sandeen, The Roots of Fundamentalism 1800-1930, University of Chicago Press, 1970)

[missmuffet]

There have been many, many posts regarding the pretribulation rapture of the Church. It is a huge debate. But the word of God tells me that God has intended for those who are genuine born again Christians to escape the wrath and judgement of the seven year tribulation. The wrath of God is not intended for his true children.

1 Thessalonians 4:13-18

1 Corinthians 15: 50-54

[Justin Adams]

15 minutes ago, missmuffet said:

There have been many, many posts regarding the pretribulation rapture of the Church. It is a huge debate. But the word of God tells me that God has intended for those who are genuine born again Christians to escape the wrath and judgement of the seven year tribulation. The wrath of God is not intended for his true children.

1 Thessalonians 4:13-18

1 Corinthians 15: 50-54

I can understand that our LORD of LIGHT, Yeshua, THE WORD, would have his people not be consumed by the GREAT TRIBULATION. However long that lasts. But right now on the planet there are some terrible things happening - kids burnt alive in a Nigerian shack, and things like that. So I do not know how much worse it can get before it is called a 'tribulation'.

It is indeed a tribulation for them that suffer. I can see that the CONSUMING WRATH of the Lord God will necessitate us hiding someplace, or being moved. I see that generally we are so soft; even wartime exodus films that are readily available just seem so remote; we Americans and English can hardly dare imagine ourselves in those refugees' shoes. Yet it is happening in Syria right now. And the number of people that have drowned trying to get away in the EU is frightening. Last year it was a daily thing to see babies, dead, washed up on European shores. So when do you call it a tribulation?

[OneLight]

I highly suggest you not get bogged down with all the debates of when this will occur.  Instead, always be ready to be with the Lord.  Strong infighting as to pre, mid, pre-wrath, post, etc.  is the tool of Satan.  We are told we will not know the day nor hour.  To me, this means don't worry about the when, but if you are ready or not.

All we are told about the timing is that it will happen at the last trumpet.  We can know the season, and Jesus told us to watch. 

Save yourself the heartache and not get involved with the fruitless debate as to when and focus only on if you are ready.

[Justin Adams]

2 minutes ago, OneLight said:

I highly suggest you not get bogged down with all the debates of when this will occur.  Instead, always be ready to be with the Lord.  Strong infighting as to pre, mid, pre-wrath, post, etc.  is the tool of Satan.  We are told we will not know the day nor hour.  To me, this means don't worry about the when, but if you are ready or not.

All we are told about the timing is that it will happen at the last trumpet.  We can know the season, and Jesus told us to watch. 

Save yourself the heartache and not get involved with the fruitless debate as to when and focus only on if you are ready.

Thank you.

I am really not that concerned, but I do know that the 18-19th century was a dark time in Britain's history for oddities. Also I am aware of some of the brethren here as well. Sometimes, following the trail of the rot can lead to some interesting and quite alarming contemporary insights. Many do not know the history of their affiliations.

The Second Coming is mostly what I focus on; watching for the Feast Days. Watching Israel and the middle east. 
I am not going to debate anyone about this though.

[missmuffet]

45 minutes ago, Justin Adams said:

I can understand that our LORD of LIGHT, Yeshua, THE WORD, would have his people not be consumed by the GREAT TRIBULATION. However long that lasts. But right now on the planet there are some terrible things happening - kids burnt alive in a Nigerian shack, and things like that. So I do not know how much worse it can get before it is called a 'tribulation'.

It is indeed a tribulation for them that suffer. I can see that the CONSUMING WRATH of the Lord God will necessitate us hiding someplace, or being moved. I see that generally we are so soft; even wartime exodus films that are readily available just seem so remote; we Americans and English can hardly dare imagine ourselves in those refugees' shoes. Yet it is happening in Syria right now. And the number of people that have drowned trying to get away in the EU is frightening. Last year it was a daily thing to see babies, dead, washed up on European shores. So when do you call it a tribulation?

What is your belief in the end times rapture, seven year tribulation and 1000 year millennium?Do you believe that the book of Revelation is history or future? What is your eschatology belief?

[Justin Adams]

What is your belief in the end times rapture, seven year tribulation and 1000 year millennium? What is your eschatology belief?

My main end times points are: (some events may be concurrent and some instantaneous or parallel)

The bad dude, pretending to be good, hoodwinks them all by 'peace' and charisma, and the 3rd temple is built.
The really bad dude tries to get the Israelis (Jews mostly) to worship him in the 3rd Temple.
They revolt.
I do not know where the two prophets fit in to this, or the 144,000 evangelists.
"The day of the Lord's Wrath" perhaps occurs after a tribulation period that is so horrific it is described as - 'was not since the beginning of the world to this time'.
The saved/redeemed are protected/hidden by Yeshua somehow.

Though the time-line is unclear to me, it appears that Angels are sent to gather the saved from the four corners.** 
The Messiah Yeshua comes back with a very loud proclamation.
His gathered people meet Him in the clouds.
They return to earth.
The Messiah stands on the Mount of Olives. The valley splits and a river issues forth.
 
**(I note that the tares may themselves be carried off as well. Since it says they will be, "captured, and carried away", [like in the days of Noah].)  Just conjecture based on the inference to Noah's day, and the word 'captured'.

Then the 4th Temple is built. Perhaps during the planet's clean up as Yeshua's 1000 year reign begins.
(After the 'end' I.e. the "Day of the Lord's Wrath", It is said that the blood rises to the level of the horses bridals, and that it takes a very, very long time to clear up the mess after that final battle.)

The 1000 year reign of the Lord Yeshua will end with the Great White Throne Judgement.
(There will be some bad stuff happening towards the end of the 1000 yrs, but that is quickly dealt with by Yeshua.) 
Then the New earth upon which descends the new Heaven.

[Daniel 11:36]

Sounds like you guys have the basics

The Lord's offer of salvation to the Gentiles has been going on for about two thousand years

A few of Israel are also in this scope, but not many

When the time comes all who belong to the Lord from the beginning of creation will be made immortal

Then He will immediately begin His wrath and judgment upon an unbelieving world for 7 prophetic years

Some will turn to Him of primarily many of Israel and some Gentiles during the tribulation period

Those of Israel will begin with the 144000 and these will spread the gospel of His coming millennia kingdom

Those who do turn to Him in the tribulation will be saved, some killed and resurrected at the end of it, and some who will survive and enter His millennial kingdom upon the earth as saved mortals

At the end of the millennial kingdom a rebellion will emerge and all who do this including all others never saved from the  beginning of human creation will be judged and sent to His lake of fire

If you are a believer today you will be made immortal just before the coming tribulation period [Revelation 3:10]

Edited October 10, 2017 by Daniel 11:36

[Marilyn C]

6 hours ago, Justin Adams said:

I am so confused by all the back and forth on this rapture subject, that I would like your opinions please.

 

Hi Justin,

Yes I can empathize with you as it is one of the `hot` topics. Lots of other truths have been clarified across the Body of Christ over the years, however this one - where we are going and when, is the last one to be clarified. So very good that you are looking into it. And it has been discussed many times, and will continue to do so until `we all come to the unity of the faith...` (Eph. 4: 13) by the Holy Spirit, as all others truths have been.

Now as to your post....One of the enemies great tactics (besides discouragement) is to get us side tracked off scripture (where there is truth) & on to discussing a person and their credibility. Since we are all sinners, then it is easy to discredit some one. So I`m not going there.

However I will tell you HOW to discern the truth yourself. God`s word focuses on Christ, His character and His purposes for -

1. The Body of Christ,

2. Israel,

3. The Nations. 

When you read God`s word just see who He is talking to and then it will become clear to you, when the Lord comes and to whom.

regards, Marilyn.

[Last Daze]

18 hours ago, OneLight said:

I highly suggest you not get bogged down with all the debates of when this will occur.  Instead, always be ready to be with the Lord.  Strong infighting as to pre, mid, pre-wrath, post, etc.  is the tool of Satan.  We are told we will not know the day nor hour.  To me, this means don't worry about the when, but if you are ready or not.

All we are told about the timing is that it will happen at the last trumpet.  We can know the season, and Jesus told us to watch. 

Save yourself the heartache and not get involved with the fruitless debate as to when and focus only on if you are ready.

This is the same conclusion that I've come to after over 35 years of interest in prophecy.

The only clearly stated timing of the rapture that we have is as you mention, at the last trumpet, which is the trumpet of God.  If someone honestly wants to know when the rapture is, they will start with that nugget of truth and search to find what Paul was referencing.

Ultimately, it all comes down to lifestyle worship.  Those who worship God in spirit and truth by acting on the teachings of Jesus are who God calls "wise".  The wise will be ready.  The foolish won't.