pretrib Timing of the Rapture

[Dennis1209]

19 minutes ago, Diaste said:

I have heard about this before. The Psalm 83 war. I dont know much about it. Is it really a war? If it is, are all those people groups mentioned going to fight at the same time? Haven't all those people people groups at one time or another vexed Israel, from the time of Moses till who know when?  When could such a war begin?

Yes, at one time or another they all attacked Israel throughout history. But all the nations mentioned in Psalm 83: have never formed a confederation / alliance to attack Israel and try to drive them into the sea. I suggest you read the entire chapter and convert the ancient lands mentioned to today's geographical areas / countries / peoples and draw your own conclusions. If you don't have a source to convert the ancient lands / peoples to today's let me know and I'll supply them. Yes, in my opinion they will coordinate an attack on Israel all at once.

[Diaste]

12 minutes ago, Dennis1209 said:

Yes, at one time or another they all attacked Israel throughout history. But all the nations mentioned in Psalm 83: have never formed a confederation / alliance to attack Israel and try to drive them into the sea. I suggest you read the entire chapter and convert the ancient lands mentioned to today's geographical areas / countries / peoples and draw your own conclusions. If you don't have a source to convert the ancient lands / peoples to today's let me know and I'll supply them. Yes, in my opinion they will coordinate an attack on Israel all at once.

I can find the lineage of modern nation's and i might just do that cause this is interesting. What leads you to believe these nation's will get together and fight a common enemy(Israel)? When do you think this war could happen? 

[simplejeff]

3 minutes ago, Diaste said:

What leads you to believe these nation's will get together and fight a common enemy(Israel)? When do you think this war could happen? 

It has been happening for a long, long time already,  and today,  and will culminate soon, Yahweh Willing, openly,

even though behind the scenes it is already fully planned (as has always been as Yahweh's Word Says) ....

[Dennis1209]

7 minutes ago, Diaste said:

I can find the lineage of modern nation's and i might just do that cause this is interesting. What leads you to believe these nation's will get together and fight a common enemy(Israel)? When do you think this war could happen? 

Keep in mind this is just personal conjecture on my part, but biblically seems sound. 

It very apparent the inner ring nations want nothing more than to drive Israel into the sea. They have officially stated it hundreds of times and don't want a land peace deal, they want it all and Israel gone. No need to debate or discuss that point.

IF, in fact this Psalm 83: war is independent and future, which I believe it is. It answers questions that precedes the Ezekiel 38: - 39: invasion. That of Israel living in peace, safety and security. How can anyone claim Israel is living in peace and safety at present? With a 308 mile high tech security fence to keep terrorists out,  100,000 terrorist rockets aimed at them, constant threats, no adequate land buffers from attack, etc. etc. 

I suspect when Israel defeats its inner circle enemies they will take a spoil and expand their current borders and have a great buffer of security. As they have in previous wars. I believe they will annihilate their inner ring enemies for good and they will never pose a threat to them again. If you'll notice, in the Ezekiel 38: - 39: invasion, not one of these inner ring nations, hostile organizations or peoples are mentioned in the Ezekiel 38: war. How come, where are they at, what happened to them?

Some of these peoples / nations are proxies of Iran, and will be supported by Iran, but Iran will not be physically involved. 

I conjecture this Psalm 83: war will happen before the Ezekiel 38: invasion, opening the way for Gog and Magog, to take plunder (food, natural gas fields, oil reserves). As far as the timing, I suspect it could be soon? Perhaps before or after the Israeli Defense Force strikes Damascus, Syria to be no more. Or Elam is destroyed either by the IDF or our Lord using supernatural forces such as an earthquake. 

It seems to be obvious that we see the Gog / Magog invasion and coalitions sharping up in the middle east, no? I'm not saying this as fact, but Putin seems to fit the bill as Gog, just as the Jesuit Pope seems to fit the bill of the False Prophet. Notice the underlined words 'seems'. 

Having a pre-tribulational viewpoint, I believe we could see some of this occur in our lifetimes prior to the Rapture maybe. It wouldn't surprise me to see something play out before the end of 2018, and that's not date setting.

Anyway, a scenario like this or something similar is the way I see biblical foretold events shaping up. We're living in interesting times!

[Marilyn C]

1 hour ago, Dennis1209 said:

 

I conjecture this Psalm 83: war will happen before the Ezekiel 38: invasion, opening the way for Gog and Magog, to take plunder (food, natural gas fields, oil reserves). As far as the timing, I suspect it could be soon? Perhaps before or after the Israeli Defense Force strikes Damascus, Syria to be no more. Or Elam is destroyed either by the IDF or our Lord using supernatural forces such as an earthquake. 

It seems to be obvious that we see the Gog / Magog invasion and coalitions sharping up in the middle east, no? I'm not saying this as fact, but Putin seems to fit the bill as Gog, just as the Jesuit Pope seems to fit the bill of the False Prophet. Notice the underlined words 'seems'. 

Having a pre-tribulational viewpoint, I believe we could see some of this occur in our lifetimes prior to the Rapture maybe. It wouldn't surprise me to see something play out before the end of 2018, and that's not date setting.

Anyway, a scenario like this or something similar is the way I see biblical foretold events shaping up. We're living in interesting times!

Hi Dennis,

We seem to agree on many points except when the Ps. 83 battle occurred. Would be good to discuss that point on another thread.

regards, Marilyn. 

[Psalms37:4]

 

Quote

I don't think it, past or present tense, I know it because scripture leads to this conclusion. It's not something I made up because of some personal bias. In fact this conclusion is terrifying and personally I would pick a pretrib rapture if it was my choice. But it's not. God says, I try my best to trust.

IS is losing on the battlefield. That's either truth or propaganda and I personally don't know which is true. Even if IS is losing on the battlefield in one region they are still wining the hearts and minds of a great deal of people. Groups from a dozen or more countries have pledged to ISIS and just because Baghdadi is losing grip on the Syria/Iraq region does not mean he has lost the ideological grip on millions of the disaffected. ISIS fighters have merged with the refugee migration moving into many European countries and the US, and others from what I hear.  This is the beginning of the fulfillment of Daniel 2, luring the disaffected, merging with other people groups but not united, and the iron like ideology that started the whole thing, to wit:

No, ISIS is not the kingdom of Iron found in Daniel 2. Scripture does not in anyway lead to or support your theory. Not even hint at such a delusional perception. Read it carefully, upon scrutiny of scripture it's clearly evident your theory is flawed.

 

Daniel 2:36-44 New King James Version (NKJV)

³⁶ “This is the dream. Now we will tell the interpretation of it before the king. ³⁷ You, O king, are a king of kings. For the God of heaven has given you a kingdom, power, strength, and glory; ³⁸ and wherever the children of men dwell, or the beasts of the field and the birds of the heaven, He has given them into your hand, and has made you ruler over them all—you are this head of gold. ³⁹ But after you shall arise another kingdom inferior to yours; then another, a third kingdom of bronze, which shall rule over all the earth. ⁴⁰ And the fourth kingdom shall be as strong as iron, inasmuch as iron breaks in pieces and shatters everything; and like iron that crushes, that kingdom will break in pieces and crush all the others. ⁴¹ Whereas you saw the feet and toes, partly of potter’s clay and partly of iron, the kingdom shall be divided; yet the strength of the iron shall be in it, just as you saw the iron mixed with ceramic clay. ⁴² And as the toes of the feet were partly of iron and partly of clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong and partly fragile. ⁴³ As you saw iron mixed with ceramic clay, they will mingle with the seed of men; but they will not adhere to one another, just as iron does not mix with clay. ⁴⁴ And in the days of these kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom which shall never be destroyed; and the kingdom shall not be left to other people; it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand forever.

~In Daniel 2:38, Daniel specifically said Nebuchadnezzar's kingdom, the Babylonian Empire is the head.

~In Daniel 2:39a, Daniel specifically stated another empire will arise after his. The only empire that succeeded the Babylonian was the Persian Empire around 539 BC.

~In Daniel 2:39b, the same verse, Daniel said then a 3rd empire. Only the Greek empire succeed the Persians around 331 BC.

~In Daniel 2:40, Daniel mentions a 4th empire strong as Iron. Only the Roman empire succeeded the Greek empire around 168 BC. Between Daniel 2:38 to Daniel 2:40, Daniel never mentioned or hinted a lapse in time of 2000 years between the 3rd and 4th empire. This is highly improbable the 4th kingdom of Daniel 2 could be any kingdom of today.

These are all ancient kingdoms in Daniel 2.

~In Daniel 2:44, it said during the time of the 4th kingdom, God will establish a kingdom that will never be destroy and will last forever. 

It was during the Roman Empire, the 4th kingdom when Jesus came on the scene and established the gospel and the Kingdom of God on earth. More evidence the Iron kingdom of Daniel 2 is Rome.

Do you know why this prophecy doesn't mention a kingdom following the Roman empire? Because the Jewish people were scattered during 70 AD and has not returned to Israel till 2000 years later. No kingdom immediately succeeded the 4th kingdom after the Roman empire ended. More evidence the iron kingdom of Daniel 2 is Rome.

Look at what the 4 kingdoms all have in common. The Babylonians, the Persian, the Greek and the Romans empires all invaded and conquered Jerusalem. All 4 kingdoms also captured and occupied Jerusalem.

Has ISIS accomplished any of this today? No! No! And No!

You got the wrong caliphate bud. Here's the next kingdom that will conquer capture and occupy Jerusalem till the time of the gentile be fulfill after his 42 months.

This caliphate will make ISIS look like child's play. ISIS was merely a stepping stone, a forerunner, a precursor to the real coming caliphate. 

 

'GET READY FOR ERDOGAN'S CALIPHATE,' OFFICIAL IN TURKEY'S RULING PARTY SAYS

http://www.jpost.com/Middle-East/Get-ready-for-Erdogans-caliphate-official-in-Turkeys-ruling-party-says-394440

WorldViews

‘The caliph is coming, get ready,’ pro-Erdogan Turkish politician tweets

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2015/03/19/the-caliph-is-coming-get-ready-pro-erdogan-turkish-politician-tweets/?utm_term=.6f62128aa941

 

Get ready for Erdoğan’s caliphate, Turkey’s ruling party official says

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/get-ready-for-erdogans-caliphate-turkeys-ruling-party-official-says-79883

Turkey’s Erdogan: Islam’s New Caliph?

http://www1.cbn.com/globallane/archive/2017/04/19/turkey-rsquo-s-erdogan-islam-rsquo-s-new-caliph

The Coming Turkish-Led Caliphate

http://www.hope-of-israel.org/caliphate.html

 

If you think ISIS caused a lot of trouble in the Middle East, wait till you see what this guy can do. Not only is he the only man on earth who can united all Muslims, Sunni and Shia, in the Middle East into peace and end the long proxy war being fought, he even has a sidekick, a religious leader in the Muslim world who is rallying all Muslims around the world in support of Erdogan's cause. 

 

HERE WE GO – Spiritual LEADER of the Muslim Brotherhood is now calling Erdogan the ‘SULTAN’

Read more: http://therightscoop.com/here-we-go-spiritual-leader-of-the-muslim-brotherhood-is-now-calling-erdogan-the-sultan/#ixzz4y10wQA6N

 

Muslim Brotherhood Fully Supports Erdogan, Al-Qaradawi Say

http://www.progressivepress.net/muslim-brotherhood-fully-supports-erdogan-al-qaradawi-say/

 

Qaradawi Supports And Praises Turkish Prime Minister; Erdogan Meets With Hamas Leaders Ahead Of Gaza Trip

https://www.globalmbwatch.com/2013/06/19/qaradawi-supports-praises-turkish-prime-minister-erdogan-meets-hamas-leaders-gaza-trip/

 

Take a guess at where the headquarter of the next Islamic Caliphate of the Muslim world will be located at?

The Muslim Brotherhood Declares “Turkey Is The Capital Of The Islamic Caliphate” (Prophecy Is Being Fulfilled)

http://shoebat.com/2014/08/18/muslim-brotherhood-says-turkey-capital-islamic-caliphate/

 

As I said bud, you got the wrong caliphate. Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi was just a puppet being used to delay time till the real caliph steps on the scene.

 

Quote

IS is losing on the battlefield. That's either truth or propaganda and I personally don't know which is true.

You believe ISIS is the kingdom of Iron in Daniel 2 and you don't know what's currently happening to your empire? Don't you follow what you believe is prophecy being fulfill?

Here, I'll help you with more fake news from today's uncredible and unreliable resources. ISIS lost their last stronghold in Syria. This comes 6 days after losing their final stronghold in Iraq. Your Iron 4th kingdom of Daniel 2 is crumbling without a city, a town or a village to call their own. Overall, ISIS hasn't conquered much if anything at all in the last 3 years of it's existence. Time to stop peddling nonsense.

ISIS chased out of last stronghold in Syria

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/boukamal-isis-syria-extremists-chased-from-last-iraq-border-town/

ISIS retreats from last Syria stronghold

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/237888

ISIS pushed from last major Iraqi stronghold

http://www.cnn.com/2017/11/03/middleeast/isis-iraq-qaim/index.html

 

'Isis is finished': Syria declares end of terror group's 'project' as last town held by jihadis falls to army

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/syria-isis-fall-albu-kamal-islamic-state-end-islamists-army-assad-a8045466.html

Isis ousted from last major stronghold in Syria

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/nov/09/isis-ousted-syria-stronghold-albu-kamal-islamic-state-iraq

 

[Psalms37:4]

13 hours ago, Dennis1209 said:

Yes it does. I briefly explained my current thoughts in a reply to Marilyn's Blog if you're interested.

Ahh ok. That makes sense as I've came across a couple other people with similar view as yours and told me they believe it's because of Ezekiel 38 too.

By chance would you happen to have a link to Marilyn's blog where you wrote your explanation? 

 

 

 

[Dennis1209]

14 hours ago, Psalms37:4 said:

Ahh ok. That makes sense as I've came across a couple other people with similar view as yours and told me they believe it's because of Ezekiel 38 too.

By chance would you happen to have a link to Marilyn's blog where you wrote your explanation? 

 

 

 

Just click on her profile (the rose) then click content, her blog is there.

[Diaste]

On 11/10/2017 at 1:44 AM, Psalms37:4 said:

 

No, ISIS is not the kingdom of Iron found in Daniel 2. Scripture does not in anyway lead to or support your theory. Not even hint at such a delusional perception. Read it carefully, upon scrutiny of scripture it's clearly evident your theory is flawed.

Just because you are convinced by newspaper clippings  and hope does not mean others are. Some of us rely solely on biblical evidence. I'll elaborate; First, the little horn (beast/AC) must rise from the remains of the Grecian Empire through the Four Notable horns that arose out of the great horn of the goat. That means the AC rises from one of four areas: Greece, Mesopotamia, Egypt or Asia Minor. I do give you credit for at least staying within the scripture for your identification of the AC. So many do not. But we are now left with a choice of four areas from whence the beast emerges and so we need more evidence to narrow this down. Witness Daniel 11.

The context of Daniel 11 is Persia and Greece and we do not leave this context. In the view of this chapter we see the focus on Persia and the swirl of activity concerning the King of the North (KOTN) and the King of the South (KOTS) in relation to Persia. Unless so delineated the events take place in the context of Persia including the succession of kings that are not the KOTN or the KOTS. As a logical point there is no way to determine compass points unless there is a control point. In this narrative of Daniel the control point is between the KOTN and the KOTS, that would be Mesopotamia (Daniel is currently standing in the palace of Darius, in Babylon); a region directly south of the realm of Antigonus, the KOTN, and north and east of Ptolemy of Egypt, the KOTS. Many like to ignore the next point as it's like pouring salt on the open wound of cognitive dissonance.

Dan 11:40, "And at the time of the end shall the king of the south push at him: and the king of the north shall come against him like a whirlwind, with chariots, and with horsemen, and with many ships; and he shall enter into the countries, and shall overflow and pass over." An open minded reading of this verse will immediately reveal there are three actors in this theater of battle: The KOTN, the KOTS, and one in between the two. There must be three actors in the context of the chapter as the the northern and southern knigs are going to battle with the subject of this part of the narrative, the willful king. At this point in the narrative the subject is the willful king or AC.

The 'in between' actor is the willful king, committing the A of D, the beast, or AC. This 'in betweener' is the one who,"shall do according to his will; and he shall exalt himself, and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak marvellous things against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the indignation be accomplished:" and, "shall magnify himself above all." This is the beast and in Daniel 11:40 we see the Northern and Southern Kings coming at the willful king to battle. What? Are you thinking the KOTN is coming to battle against himself? Cause if a person concludes the KOTN is the willful king, or AC, then they also must conclude the KOTN comes to battle against himself. Not a sound conclusion. Now, please refute this with cogent arguments based on biblical evidence, not secular propaganda.

Daniel 2:36-44 New King James Version (NKJV)

³⁶ “This is the dream. Now we will tell the interpretation of it before the king. ³⁷ You, O king, are a king of kings. For the God of heaven has given you a kingdom, power, strength, and glory; ³⁸ and wherever the children of men dwell, or the beasts of the field and the birds of the heaven, He has given them into your hand, and has made you ruler over them all—you are this head of gold. ³⁹ But after you shall arise another kingdom inferior to yours; then another, a third kingdom of bronze, which shall rule over all the earth. ⁴⁰ And the fourth kingdom shall be as strong as iron, inasmuch as iron breaks in pieces and shatters everything; and like iron that crushes, that kingdom will break in pieces and crush all the others. ⁴¹ Whereas you saw the feet and toes, partly of potter’s clay and partly of iron, the kingdom shall be divided; yet the strength of the iron shall be in it, just as you saw the iron mixed with ceramic clay. ⁴² And as the toes of the feet were partly of iron and partly of clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong and partly fragile. ⁴³ As you saw iron mixed with ceramic clay, they will mingle with the seed of men; but they will not adhere to one another, just as iron does not mix with clay. ⁴⁴ And in the days of these kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom which shall never be destroyed; and the kingdom shall not be left to other people; it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand forever.

~In Daniel 2:38, Daniel specifically said Nebuchadnezzar's kingdom, the Babylonian Empire is the head.

This is true.

~In Daniel 2:39a, Daniel specifically stated another empire will arise after his. The only empire that succeeded the Babylonian was the Persian Empire around 539 BC.

This is also true.

~In Daniel 2:39b, the same verse, Daniel said then a 3rd empire. Only the Greek empire succeed the Persians around 331 BC.

This again is true. Did you know this is all pretty clear since the empires are named in scripture as succeeding one another?

~In Daniel 2:40, Daniel mentions a 4th empire strong as Iron. Only the Roman empire succeeded the Greek empire around 168 BC. Between Daniel 2:38 to Daniel 2:40, Daniel never mentioned or hinted a lapse in time of 2000 years between the 3rd and 4th empire. This is highly improbable the 4th kingdom of Daniel 2 could be any kingdom of today.

And this is usually where they all go off the rails. There is no basis for concluding Rome here. The fourth kingdom is not named where the first three are specific. Rome did not directly succeed Greece, the Diadochi did as specifically stated in Dan 8, "21 And the rough goat is the king of Grecia: and the great horn that is between his eyes is the first king. 22 Now that being broken, whereas four stood up for it, four kingdoms shall stand up out of the nation, but not in his power." When Greece falls it is not Rome that comes next but the 'four notable ones'. From history we know that when Alexander died the Grecian kingdom was divided. Before Antigonus, Cassander, Ptolemy and Seleucid consolidated the remnants the Grecian empire was fractured into hundreds of satrapies. Out of that mess came the four empires of the great generals. This is the succession after Alexander, not Rome.

These are all ancient kingdoms in Daniel 2.

Not Rome.

~In Daniel 2:44, it said during the time of the 4th kingdom, God will establish a kingdom that will never be destroy and will last forever. 

It was during the Roman Empire, the 4th kingdom when Jesus came on the scene and established the gospel and the Kingdom of God on earth. More evidence the Iron kingdom of Daniel 2 is Rome.

Not evidence. Not relevant evidence anyway. It's not scriptural in relation to the identification of the iron kingdom as stated in the books of Daniel. How exactly does the existence of a nation during the life of Jesus confirm biblical prophecy? Rome is never stated as prophetic empire anywhere in scripture. I have seen this assumption repeated a hundred times over decades and it's just as weak a conclusion now as ever.

Do you know why this prophecy doesn't mention a kingdom following the Roman empire? Because the Jewish people were scattered during 70 AD and has not returned to Israel till 2000 years later. No kingdom immediately succeeded the 4th kingdom after the Roman empire ended. More evidence the iron kingdom of Daniel 2 is Rome.

What? Rome isn't mentioned in scripture as succeeding the Precious Metal Empires. The succession is as follows: Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece, Diadochi. Obviously no kingdom is mentioned as succeeding Rome because Rome isn't mentioned in biblical prophecy.

Look at what the 4 kingdoms all have in common. The Babylonians, the Persian, the Greek and the Romans empires all invaded and conquered Jerusalem. All 4 kingdoms also captured and occupied Jerusalem.

Another oft repeated illogical conclusion. What empire ruled over Israel is not scriptural evidence for the identification of the iron kingdom. This line of thought is the desperate attempt by 'biblical' scholars to find answers to what they do not understand. Dan 8, the follow up to Dan 2, confirms the succession from Greece to the Diadochi, then to the willful king, who rises from the ancient Seleucid empire.

Has ISIS accomplished any of this today? No! No! And No!

 Zeal and conviction is a good thing. Just cause you say it with fervor does not make it valid.

You got the wrong caliphate bud. Here's the next kingdom that will conquer capture and occupy Jerusalem till the time of the gentile be fulfill after his 42 months.

 And the prevalent demeaning speech affirms the weakness of the position. Arguments. Cogent. True. Please.

This caliphate will make ISIS look like child's play. ISIS was merely a stepping stone, a forerunner, a precursor to the real coming caliphate. 

A dozen newspaper clippings does not make a good case for interpretation of biblical prophecy. If the article has some manner of alignment with prophecy, well and good. The above responses show the futility of such efforts. But let me give you an example of prophecy come true. Or at least a striking connection between prophecy and current events. You can read the article for yourself, the connection follows:

Graeme Wood reported in his article in New Republic: "...the Bahraini cleric Turki al-Bin’ali, cites a saying attributed to Muhammad that predicts a total of twelve caliphs before the end of the world. Bin’ali considers only seven of the caliphs of history legitimate. That makes Baghdadi the eighth out of twelve..." So the now deceased cleric Bin'ali has said Baghdadi is the 8th legitimate caliph. This is based on Bin'ali's research and the requirements for a legitimate caliph. One of the big factors is Qurayshi ancestry.  Islamic prophecy says 12 legitimate caliphs will appear before the end, all from the Quraysh tribe. But that isn't the interesting part. Rev 17:11, "And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition." 

Do you see the parallel? Scripture says the beast is, "...the eighth, and is of the seven..." Baghdadi is the 8th and is of the seven, at least according to Baghdadi. Through history every world leader has been tagged as the AC. Every Pope, American presidents, English royalty, the list goes on. Never heard one described exactly as scripture describes the beast, "...the eighth, and is of the seven..."

If you think ISIS caused a lot of trouble in the Middle East, wait till you see what this guy can do. Not only is he the only man on earth who can united all Muslims, Sunni and Shia, in the Middle East into peace and end the long proxy war being fought, he even has a sidekick, a religious leader in the Muslim world who is rallying all Muslims around the world in support of Erdogan's cause. 

Not how the beast comes to power. He's not coming to power through clever oration, expensive suits, deep insight into military, social, political, or economic issues. Not by military or financial power nor the backing of world governing bodies (as if). The beast rises by supernatural means through great spiritual power as stated in Rev 13.

 

As I said bud, you got the wrong caliphate. Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi was just a puppet being used to delay time till the real caliph steps on the scene.

It's insulting when you use substitutes for my name. Please stop.

 

You believe ISIS is the kingdom of Iron in Daniel 2 and you don't know what's currently happening to your empire? Don't you follow what you believe is prophecy being fulfill?

Obviously. But I never said IS was going to rise into a great world power. I fully expect the beast will first be arrested, tried and convicted, then executed and resurrected, following the parallel to Jesus' trial and death and subsequent resurrection. I know the beast is given power by the dragon and raised from the dead and given authority over the earth. Any other scenario is not evident on scripture.

Here, I'll help you with more fake news from today's uncredible and unreliable resources. ISIS lost their last stronghold in Syria. This comes 6 days after losing their final stronghold in Iraq. Your Iron 4th kingdom of Daniel 2 is crumbling without a city, a town or a village to call their own. Overall, ISIS hasn't conquered much if anything at all in the last 3 years of it's existence. Time to stop peddling nonsense.

Seeing as the iron kingdom emerges from the Diadochi, and is Islam, and is the ideology of forced conversions, death, crushing, breaking, and world wide conquest, IS or not means little. The focus in on the beast, the 8th of 7, the A of D and declaring himself god. The best candidate for this beast just happens to be the head beast of a bestial organization of a centuries old murderous, destructive, evil ideology. If this guy was the leader of Al Qaeda, Al Nusra, Boko Haram, etc, I would say the same thing. Now if you have any scripturally based, relevant arguments to bolster your position, please post them.

 

 

 

Edited November 11, 2017 by Diaste

[Daniel 11:36]

" An open minded reading of this verse will immediately reveal there are three actors in this theater of battle"

 

There are only two .... the king of the north and the king of the south

The king of the north is the human little horn Daniel's visions