Some encouraging Scriptures about the rapture

[JoeCanada]

46 minutes ago, Spock said:

Hi again Joe, blessings going your way,

i for one definitely do NOT believed the HS is removed from Earth after the rapture, that is quite illogical to think that. And most pre tribbers I know don’t believe that. 

I think most agree, we go back to the OT times when the HS no longer INDWELLS people, but is definitely present doing its thing. And the proof of that to me is Rev 24:14.....”now people are encouraged to ENDURE to the end....”

The age of GRACE through faith where a believer is SEALED is no longer in play. During the GT, you better endure, which primarily means, don’t take the mark of the beast and definitely don’t deny Jesus/God. 

No joe, the HS will most definitely be present and doing it’s thing after rapture. I agree with you on this....you need the HS for salvation. 

Hi Spock....

"I think most agree, we go back to the OT times when the HS no longer INDWELLS people,"

Joel 2:28 says...."I will pour out my Spirit on all flesh, your sons and daughters will prophecy, your old men will dream dreams, your young men will see visions. Even on the male and female servants I will pour out My Spirit in those days"

God is going to "pour out His Spirit" not revert back to OT times. It will be the greatest period of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit that the world has ever seen.

[iamlamad]

On ‎7‎/‎6‎/‎2019 at 12:55 PM, Diaste said:

I know you're convinced of a pretrib rapture, sister in Christ.

It's not coming. Get ready for to be here till the end.

Many are convinced, for it is scripture. God is pretrib. It seems you are still on the outside of this camp looking in. If you just WANT to be left behind, I believe Jesus will accommodate you.  My only question is, why? The bible is clear; Jesus has an escape plan for all who can believe. It will be your choice: escape God's wrath and wait it out in heaven, or "tribulate." The right answer is, escape.

[iamlamad]

41 minutes ago, JoeCanada said:

Hi Spock....

"I think most agree, we go back to the OT times when the HS no longer INDWELLS people,"

Joel 2:28 says...."I will pour out my Spirit on all flesh, your sons and daughters will prophecy, your old men will dream dreams, your young men will see visions. Even on the male and female servants I will pour out My Spirit in those days"

God is going to "pour out His Spirit" not revert back to OT times. It will be the greatest period of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit that the world has ever seen.

Joe, I have been thinking about this: I am close to changing my mind. I am beginning to believe the Holy Spirit will remain (as under the Old Covenant) up to the time of the 42 months of authority by the Beast. Then, the Holy Spirit will leave. It is literally going to be hell on earth.  The 144,000 may well be evangelists during the first half, so the Holy Spirit must be here then.  I think there will be a great harvest of souls coming to God.  I wonder if ANYONE will believe the two witnesses during the last half of the week? If they do, their only hope is to endure to the end or lose their heads.

I am wrong: the Holy Spirit will certainly be upon the two witnesses as their anointing during the last half of the week.

Edited July 16, 2019 by iamlamad

[iamlamad]

1 hour ago, Spock said:

Hi again Joe, blessings going your way,

i for one definitely do NOT believed the HS is removed from Earth after the rapture, that is quite illogical to think that. And most pre tribbers I know don’t believe that. 

I think most agree, we go back to the OT times when the HS no longer INDWELLS people, but is definitely present doing its thing. And the proof of that to me is Rev 24:14.....”now people are encouraged to ENDURE to the end....”

The age of GRACE through faith where a believer is SEALED is no longer in play. During the GT, you better endure, which primarily means, don’t take the mark of the beast and definitely don’t deny Jesus/God. 

No joe, the HS will most definitely be present and doing it’s thing after rapture. I agree with you on this....you need the HS for salvation. 

My friend, please don't refer to the Holy Spirit as an "it." HE IS HE -  with personality! We know that the Holy Spirit is omnipresent, but WHILE He is omnipresent, He is seen in the throne room of heaven, and now is inhabiting every believe. There can be no question He will be upon the two witnesses during the last half of the week. But will He be doing anything else? Yes, perhaps giving strength to those being beheaded.

[iamlamad]

1 hour ago, JoeCanada said:

Hi Spock....

How does one differentiate between "Saints"....and so-called "Tribulation Saints"?

Or....."Old Testament Saints"...."New Testament Saints"...... and so-called "Tribulation Saints"?

I don't see scripture differentiating these groups. Do you?

ALL are one in Christ Jesus. 

When the Lord comes for His righteous ones, the graves will open and the dead Saints will rise....then the Saints who are alive will meet them and the Lord in the clouds. I see no other "First Resurrection".

Pre-tribbers believe that the Holy Spirit is the "restrainer" in 2 Thes 2. And when He is removed, then so is the Church. This has mega problems.

If people see a special group called "Tribulation Saints"......then the question is.....How did these so-called saints become saved during the Trib?

The notion that God would send a group of believers through the darkest time this world has ever known without the Comforter is hard for me to grasp. How about you? Besides, how could the folks the pre-tribbers refer to as "tribulation saints" have gotten saved in the first place without the Holy Spirit?

No one can be saved except the Spirit of God convinces them of their lost condition and reveals Christ to them. To say there will be people saved during the tribulation without the Spirit of God flies in the face of Biblical teaching about salvation.

The grace of God is more than a contract to go free from the consequences of sin. It is the presence and strength of God's Spirit abiding in the heart of the believer, giving us the power to become the very sons of God. There is no other way of salvation!

Here is something vital to understand about this issue. The pre-trib doctrine (dispensational theology) teaches that tribulation saints are NOT saved like we are. They prove their faith by their willingness to die for God. They are saved and enter the Kingdom of God through their martyrdom!........Does this not sound like Islam to anyone but me???????

How can "tribulation saints" be saved apart from the indwelling of the Spirit?

Scripture tell me if anyone has not the Spirit of Christ dwelling in them they are not even His.

Who should I believe?.......Who do YOU believe?

The indwelling Spirit of God IS the resurrection power!

No Holy Spirit------------- No Resurrection!

ALL are one in Christ Jesus.   Whoa back! "In Christ" is certainly speaking of those born again with the Holy Spirit's seal inside.

This born again experience (in Christ experience) was not available to those under the Old Covenant - did not become available until Jesus conquered death and rose again.

Therefore, when the dead "in Christ" rise, it is going to be ONLY New Testament saints. This would, of course, cause their to be two kinds of saints: New Testament (the born again ones) and the Old Testament saints.

Can there be yet a third category? All the Old Testament saints are dead and gone. So what do we call those that turn to God after the pretrib rapture? NEW "Old Testament" saints? Probably a better term would be "tribulation" saints.

Scripture tell me if anyone has not the Spirit of Christ dwelling in them they are not even His. WHAT scripture? Of course a New Testament scripture. The "Spirit of Christ" was simply not  available to the Old Testament saints. They were FORCED to walk according to the flesh, for that is all that was available to them.

The pre-trib doctrine (dispensational theology) teaches that tribulation saints are NOT saved like we are.  Perhaps some pretribbers do.  Can we prove from scripture that "trib" saints will be sealed with the Holy Spirit? I think that would be difficult to prove. NONE (ZERO) (0) of the  Old Testament saints were sealed with the Holy Spirit. He was only available to those whom God needed to anoint for a certain purpose or job they had to accomplish - such as kings, prophets, and priests. Some pretribbers also say that the church age ENDS and no more people we be "born again" at the pretrib rapture.  I think I am in this camp.

The Holy Spirit will certainly resurrect the Old Testament saints there were saved by faith in the law. They will be raised up on "the last day" or the last 24 hour day of the 70th week. Again, they did NOT have the Holy Spirit dwelling in them. He was not available until Jesus rose from the dead and took care of the sin problem. God COULD NOT put "new wine" (the Holy Spirit) into old vessels - unregenerate human spirits.  He could not and He did not.

It is a very interesting question, and hard to prove one way or the other. I tend to think it is a different dispensation with different rules.  It will be those who "endure to the end..." But what then? They will remain in natural bodies to repopulate the earth.

 

 

[Spock]

5 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

ALL are one in Christ Jesus.   Whoa back! "In Christ" is certainly speaking of those born again with the Holy Spirit's seal inside.

This born again experience (in Christ experience) was not available to those under the Old Covenant - did not become available until Jesus conquered death and rose again.

Therefore, when the dead "in Christ" rise, it is going to be ONLY New Testament saints. This would, of course, cause their to be two kinds of saints: New Testament (the born again ones) and the Old Testament saints.

Can there be yet a third category? All the Old Testament saints are dead and gone. So what do we call those that turn to God after the pretrib rapture? NEW "Old Testament" saints? Probably a better term would be "tribulation" saints.

Scripture tell me if anyone has not the Spirit of Christ dwelling in them they are not even His. WHAT scripture? Of course a New Testament scripture. The "Spirit of Christ" was simply not  available to the Old Testament saints. They were FORCED to walk according to the flesh, for that is all that was available to them.

The pre-trib doctrine (dispensational theology) teaches that tribulation saints are NOT saved like we are.  Perhaps some pretribbers do.  Can we prove from scripture that "trib" saints will be sealed with the Holy Spirit? I think that would be difficult to prove. NONE (ZERO) (0) of the  Old Testament saints were sealed with the Holy Spirit. He was only available to those whom God needed to anoint for a certain purpose or job they had to accomplish - such as kings, prophets, and priests. Some pretribbers also say that the church age ENDS and no more people we be "born again" at the pretrib rapture.  I think I am in this camp.

The Holy Spirit will certainly resurrect the Old Testament saints there were saved by faith in the law. They will be raised up on "the last day" or the last 24 hour day of the 70th week. Again, they did NOT have the Holy Spirit dwelling in them. He was not available until Jesus rose from the dead and took care of the sin problem. God COULD NOT put "new wine" (the Holy Spirit) into old vessels - unregenerate human spirits.  He could not and He did not.

It is a very interesting question, and hard to prove one way or the other. I tend to think it is a different dispensation with different rules.  It will be those who "endure to the end..." But what then? They will remain in natural bodies to repopulate the earth.

 

 

This is an EXCELLENT rebuttal and explanation LAmad. Nice....

i said the same thing but you said it with much greater detail and clarity. Your post deserves a WORTHY! 

[Spock]

35 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

My friend, please don't refer to the Holy Spirit as an "it." HE IS HE -  with personality! We know that the Holy Spirit is omnipresent, but WHILE He is omnipresent, He is seen in the throne room of heaven, and now is inhabiting every believe. There can be no question He will be upon the two witnesses during the last half of the week. But will He be doing anything else? Yes, perhaps giving strength to those being beheaded.

Thanks for noticing that. I made the correction (it’s to His) 

[iamlamad]

21 minutes ago, Spock said:

This is an EXCELLENT rebuttal and explanation LAmad. Nice....

i said the same thing but you said it with much greater detail and clarity. Your post deserves a WORTHY! 

Thanks.

[Diaste]

1 hour ago, iamlamad said:

This born again experience (in Christ experience) was not available to those under the Old Covenant - did not become available until Jesus conquered death and rose again.

 I do not want you to be unaware, brothers, that our forefathers were all under the cloud, and that they all passed through the sea. 2They were all baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea. 3They all ate the same spiritual food4and drank the same spiritual drink; for they drank from the spiritual rock that accompanied them, and that rock was Christ

So no, it was always Christ from the beginning. 

 

[Diaste]

1 hour ago, iamlamad said:

Many are convinced, for it is scripture. God is pretrib. It seems you are still on the outside of this camp looking in. If you just WANT to be left behind, I believe Jesus will accommodate you.  My only question is, why? The bible is clear; Jesus has an escape plan for all who can believe. It will be your choice: escape God's wrath and wait it out in heaven, or "tribulate." The right answer is, escape.

No one will be left behind. No believer will endure wrath. Pretribs take on wrath and timing is incorrect.

I'd get ready for that if we are alive when it comes to pass.