No one ever went to heaven during OT times.

[Justin Adams]

5 hours ago, Your closest friendnt said:

He must have gone and show himself to everyone down there even to the fallen angells kept in prison, so they may see him, for every eye must see him, that he is the one. 

Could be that Yeshua did not bother with Tartaroo (Tartarus). After all, He knew them from the Council of the Most High. He was probably the Executive that ordered them there. (Ps 82)

Tartarus is far, far beneath the regular 'Hades/Sheol' or place of the human dead. Hades is not the abyss.

[Quasar93]

8 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Shabbat shalom, Quasar93.

Let's go back and nip this nonsense in the bud: You said,

3. The parable of Lazarus and the rich man in Lk.16:22-26 NIV, is a perfect profile of OT Sheol that reveals both the righteous and the wicked going there in spirit after their physical death.  "The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham's side.  The rich man also died and was buried.  In Hell, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus [the beggar] by his side.  So he called to him, 'father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue.'"  

"But Abrahan replied, 'Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is conforted here and you are in agony.  And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.'"   

However, this is NOT talking about some two-chambered hole in the center of the earth! This is talking about IN THE RESURRECTION! The Greek word "hadees," spelled "alpha-delta-eta-s(t)igma" with the rough breathing mark (transliterated as an"h") over the alpha, pronounced "HAH-dace," not "HAY-deez," means the "unseen." It's not a place; it's a CONDITION! It's talking about the FUTURE! This has to be talking about after the Resurrection because how could the rich man have a tongue needing to be cooled without a BODY having a tongue?! How could Elezar ("Lazarus") dip a finger in water without a BODY having fingers?! How could the rich man be "in torment" without a BODY having nerves?! How could Avraham send Elezar if Elezar had no BODY with legs and feet?! And, how could a chasm separate them if they were not PHYSICAL BODIES limited by time and space?!

I've heard it all my life: "In hell, one has all of his or her senses." But, we should be using "Ockham's Razor" here:

Occam's razor (also Ockham's razor; Latin: lex parsimoniae "law of parsimony") is a problem-solving principle attributed to William of Ockham (c. 1287–1347), who was an English Franciscan friar, scholastic philosopher, and theologian. His principle states that among competing hypotheses, the one with the fewest assumptions should be selected.

Wouldn't it make more sense that one has returned to life in his or her body, experiencing the senses of that body, rather than to say that a "soul" has senses without a body in some place called "hell" or "paradise?!"

Did you know that "paradise," transliterated from the Greek "paradeisos," which in turn was transliterated from the Hebrew "pardeec," means a "PARK," specifically a "PARK OF TREES?!" So, is there (or was there) a "park of trees" or an "orchard" IN THE PIT AT THE CENTER OF THE EARTH?!

 

 

Thank you for your input, Retrobyter.  Now that you have contributed your opinion in the interpretation Lazarus and the rich man, please tell me where you obtained your qualifications to teach the Bible?  Thank you.

 

Quasar93

[Quasar93]

7 hours ago, ScottA said:

What Jesus said of Himself, that "no one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven - the son of man" is true both back in time and also forward, for He is the "only begotten" and all are "in Him" and were and are raised up in His "hour." This is what is revealed of what is written of all that came to pass "before the foundation of the world." His eternity, told by God in the media of time. History, is His story.

 

 

Every believer who dies in Christ, goes to heaven with Christ, as recorded in 2 Cor.5:8, confirming Ecc.12:7.  Confirmed in 1 Thess.4:14 where they will all return with Christ, when He returns from heaven for His Church, in verses 16-17.

 

Quasar93

[Quasar93]

7 hours ago, Your closest friendnt said:

Jesus died for all, and to give life to all, you forgot to say if Jesus preach the Gospel to all from the beginning to righteous before Abraham and to the unrighteous . or did say that, sorry. 

Jesus said that he has to descent to the very low before he ascents to the very hight. 

He must have gone and show himself to everyone down there even to the fallen angells kept in prison, so they may see him, for every eye must see him, that he is the one. 

 

Thank you for your input, friendmt,

When Jesus went to Hell in Spirit. to preach the Gospel to them there, you can be sure, it was the same as it was when He preached to those who were present during His first advent;  some believed and others did not believe.  As for the fallen angels, they were already judged and held in chains, in darkness, until the day of judgment; and therefore would not have been present when Jesus went in Spirit to hell, to preach to the others.

 

Quasar93   

[Retrobyter]

43 minutes ago, Quasar93 said:

 

 

Thank you for your input, Retrobyter.  Now that you have contributed your opinion in the interpretation Lazarus and the rich man, please tell me where you obtained your qualifications to teach the Bible?  Thank you.

 

Quasar93

Shabbat shalom, Quasar93.

I'll tell you how I obtained my qualifications if you tell me how you obtained yours.

[Quasar93]

15 minutes ago, Retrobyter said:

Shabbat shalom, Quasar93.

I'll tell you how I obtained my qualifications if you tell me how you obtained yours.

 

Many years ago, I earned qualifications to teach the Bible from Prairie Bible Institute, in Three Hills, Alberta, Canada, prior to serving in the USAAF Air Corp during WWII, where I spent 2 years of it in the Pacific/Asiatic theater.  Some years later, supplementing it at Liberty University, with Harold Wilmington, in Lynchburg, VA and Dallas Theological Seminary, with Dwight Pentecost, in Dallas, TX. 

 

Quasar93

[ScottA]

2 hours ago, Quasar93 said:

 

 

Every believer who dies in Christ, goes to heaven with Christ, as recorded in 2 Cor.5:8, confirming Ecc.12:7.  Confirmed in 1 Thess.4:14 where they will all return with Christ, when He returns from heaven for His Church, in verses 16-17.

 

Quasar93

Yes, and that is the timing of His coming: when we are made "alive", and also when we leave and are "absent from the body" of flesh, "each in his own order."

[Wayne222]

1 hour ago, Quasar93 said:

 

Many years ago, I earned qualifications to teach the Bible from Prairie Bible Institute, in Three Hills, Alberta, Canada, prior to serving in the USAAF Air Corp during WWII, where I spent 2 years of it in the Pacific/Asiatic theater.  Some years later, supplementing it at Liberty University, with Harold Wilmington, in Lynchburg, VA and Dallas Theological Seminary, with Dwight Pentecost, in Dallas, TX. 

 

Quasar93

Wow!

[Wayne222]

Just now, Wayne222 said:

Wow!

Good job  Quasar93 that is some great places to learn . Dwight Pentecost is famous as a bible teacher.

[OneLight]

1 hour ago, Quasar93 said:

 

Many years ago, I earned qualifications to teach the Bible from Prairie Bible Institute, in Three Hills, Alberta, Canada, prior to serving in the USAAF Air Corp during WWII, where I spent 2 years of it in the Pacific/Asiatic theater.  Some years later, supplementing it at Liberty University, with Harold Wilmington, in Lynchburg, VA and Dallas Theological Seminary, with Dwight Pentecost, in Dallas, TX. 

 

Quasar93

This would make you the oldest member of this site, I believe!  Does that mean you are 93 and born in 1925, or some year close?