AN IMPORTANT END-TIME MESSAGE TO THE SAINTS

[angels4u]

1 hour ago, LightShinesInTheDarkness said:

It is very important to pray about what we hear (or read) and to ask God for understanding, and not to be lazy and just believe whatever someone tells us (including pastors, just because they are pastors, or scholars just because they are scholars).

Why do you think you tell people the truth? I didn't see anybody so far agree with your post,did you come to Worthy to teach people? May I ask who taught you? Do you belong to a church or are you a prophet? 

[wingnut-]

9 minutes ago, LightShinesInTheDarkness said:

I know that many Christians believe that a true Christian can't depart or fall away from Christ (or forfeit or lose his or her salvation), but the Scriptures teach otherwise.

 

Incorrect, look at the passage again, because it is very explicit in the language.  I'll highlight a different section for you, because this is what it means to be a true Christian.

 

John 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand.29 My Father, who has given them to me,[a] is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand. 30 I and the Father are one.”

 

His sheep, are true Christians, He knows them, and they follow Him.  Doesn't get much clearer than that.

If your point is, that not everyone who goes to church every week, or claims to know the Lord is how you define a true Christian, then sure.  But what I am talking about, is what a true Christian is according to scripture, and there is no scripture which contradicts this passage.

 

16 minutes ago, LightShinesInTheDarkness said:

"If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away like a branch and withers; and the branches are gathered, thrown into the fire and burned." (John 15:6)

 

If a person is not abiding in Him, they are not a true Christian.  Refer to the passage I posted, His sheep follow Him, or in other words, abide in Him.

 

20 minutes ago, LightShinesInTheDarkness said:

"I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away..." (John 15:1,2)

 

Scripture states that a true believer is known by their fruits, so if no fruit, not a true believer.

 

22 minutes ago, LightShinesInTheDarkness said:

"As the Father has loved Me, so have I loved you. Abide in My love. If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love." (John 15:9, 10)

(If it were impossible for us not to abide in God's love, why would the Lord tell us to do so?)

 

It is possible obviously, this is why people are condemned, but not one of them will be a true Christian.  Again, His sheep hear His voice and follow Him.

God bless

[LightShinesInTheDarkness]

3 minutes ago, angels4u said:

Why do you think you tell people the truth? I didn't see anybody so far agree with your post,did you come to Worthy to teach people? May I ask who taught you? Do you belong to a church or are you a prophet? 

People agreeing with something does not make it true. Nor does disagreeing with it make it false. If you go to other threads, you'll see some of the same people who disagree with the things I've shared here sharing and asserting all kinds of things. Do you agree with all of them? So what difference does it make whether or not they agree with me in terms of what I've shared here? 

The people who disagree with some or all of my message don't agree with everything each other believes either.

Even if no one agrees with the points of this message, is that going to change its fulfillment if it is correct?

My suggestion to you and to all is to do exactly what I encouraged people to do in the introduction of the message---to take what they hear to the Lord and ask Him for confirmation about it; and also take the time to look up the scriptures that are included in the message, and any others the Lord might lead them to, to know whether the message points are correct. If the message is true, it makes no difference what I am. But you're welcome to read my profile if you'd like to know more about me.

 

 

[LightShinesInTheDarkness]

12 minutes ago, wingnut- said:

 

Incorrect, look at the passage again, because it is very explicit in the language.  I'll highlight a different section for you, because this is what it means to be a true Christian.

 

John 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand.29 My Father, who has given them to me,[a] is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand. 30 I and the Father are one.”

 

His sheep, are true Christians, He knows them, and they follow Him.  Doesn't get much clearer than that.

If your point is, that not everyone who goes to church every week, or claims to know the Lord is how you define a true Christian, then sure.  But what I am talking about, is what a true Christian is according to scripture, and there is no scripture which contradicts this passage.

 

 

If a person is not abiding in Him, they are not a true Christian.  Refer to the passage I posted, His sheep follow Him, or in other words, abide in Him.

 

 

Scripture states that a true believer is known by their fruits, so if no fruit, not a true believer.

 

 

It is possible obviously, this is why people are condemned, but not one of them will be a true Christian.  Again, His sheep hear His voice and follow Him.

God bless

What the Lord said about His sheep (like Romans 8:38, 39) is within the context of other scriptures that qualify it. As I said, no one but us can take us out of God's hand. That is what the Scriptures teach, even though many disagree.

Our bearing fruit as Christians is dependent upon on our choices. We have the sinful nature and we can choose to serve it and bear bad fruit. We can also choose whether or not to listen to our Shepherd. (Have you ever chosen not to listen to the Lord since you were saved? Or to keep in step with His Spirit? How about any of the true Christians you know?) Just because we can hear Him (as every born-again person can), doesn't mean we'll always choose to obey Him.

As for having no fruit, if a Christian is choosing to serve himself and to disobey the Lord, he's not being fruitful, even though he's in the vine. Of course unsaved people have no fruit, but they are also not in Christ, the vine. So clearly what the Lord was saying about His branches was referring to Christians, not unsaved people. How can a person be in Christ and not in Him at the same time? And unsaved people aren't in Christ in the first place so they can't abide (remain) in Him.

I've had conversations with OSAS (once-saved-always-saved) believers, and it's to no avail to try to change their minds about this false doctrine; it's like the lie is ingrained in them from years of false teaching. But that is what it is: A false doctrine.

 

If you believe that there's nothing you can do to forfeit your salvation, you're more likely to do things that could cause you to do so.

 

I consider OSAS to be a potentially deadly heresy for this reason.

 

[Unfailing Presence]

10 hours ago, Unfailing Presence said:

19 hours ago, LightShinesInTheDarkness said:

Every eye will see Him when He returns.

 

At this time, the dead will be raised, and those saints who remain alive on the earth will be changed and caught up to meet the Lord in the air.

Not sure what bible you are getting this from ?

My bible states that the day Jesus returns to earth in judgement there will be none  " caught up in the air " from earth ,  for the purpose of turning right around & going back to earth . 

More  purposelessness so typical of the crooked thinking that must be embraced in rejecting the pre-trib rapture .

My bible states that those returning to earth with Christ in judgement are returning from HEAVEN  where they  " WERE " already :

 

                                                           "  And the armies WHICH WERE IN HEAVEN followed Him upon white horses clothed in fine linen , white and clean . "                                                                                                                                                                               ( Revelation 19 : 14 ) 

 

  God's Word that anyone  " caught up in the air " is going to be in heaven for an extended time before returning  with Christ at a later time .

I understand the hindrance the Word of God causes for such spiritually crooked thinking .

So the silence of your insufficiency in being able to materialize some form of response is understandable as well .

[LightShinesInTheDarkness]

The Last Day/The Day Of The Lord (A Single Day)

 

 

Proof that the Day Of Judgment is the same day that Jesus returns:

 

31“When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne.32Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33And he will place the sheep on his right, but the goats on the left. 34Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world...

41“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels...

 46And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”  (Matthew 25:31-34, 41, 46)

 

5Therefore do not pronounce judgment before the time, before the Lord comes, who will bring to light the things now hidden in darkness and will disclose the purposes of the heart. Then each one will receive his commendation from God.  (1 Corinthians 4:5)

 

21As I looked, this horn made war with the saints and prevailed over them, 22until the Ancient of Days came, and judgment was given for the saints of the Most High, and the time came when the saints possessed the kingdom.  (Daniel 7:21,22)

 

15Then the seventh angel blew his trumpet, and there were loud voices in heaven, saying, “The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of his Christ, and he shall reign forever and ever.”16And the twenty-four elders who sit on their thrones before God fell on their faces and worshiped God,17saying,

“We give thanks to you, Lord God Almighty,
who is and who was,
for you have taken your great power
and begun to reign.
18The nations raged,
but your wrath came,
and the time for the dead to be judged,
and for rewarding your servants, the prophets and saints,
and those who fear your name,
both small and great,
and for destroying the destroyers of the earth.”

(Revelation 11:15-18)

 

The Final Judgment and the Great White Throne Judgment are the same event. There is one Day of Judgment for both the righteous and the unrighteous, as the scriptures above show.

 

Proof that the dead are raised on the day that Jesus returns:

 

 44No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day. (John 6:44)

 

51Behold! I tell you a mystery. We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,52in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed. ( 1 Corinthians 15:51, 52)

 

 14For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so, through Jesus, God will bring with him those who have fallen asleep. 15For this we declare to you by a word from the Lord,^d that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord. 

(1 Thessalonians 4:14-17)

 

Yes, the dead in Christ will both return with Him and be bodily raised on the day of His return. Their spirits will return with Him from heaven, and will be united with new spiritual bodies that God will create on that day, in which they will rise from their graves. The holy angels will also return with Jesus on the last day. See Matthew 25:31 above.

 

 

Proof that the world is destroyed on the day that Jesus returns:

 

36“But concerning that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son,^b but the Father only. 37For as were the days of Noah, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. 38For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day when Noah entered the ark, 39and they were unaware until the flood came and swept them all away, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. 

(Matthew 24:36-39)

 

 26Just as it was in the days of Noah, so will it be in the days of the Son of Man. 27They were eating and drinking and marrying and being given in marriage, until the day when Noah entered the ark, and the flood came and destroyed them all. 28Likewise, just as it was in the days of Lot—they were eating and drinking, buying and selling, planting and building, 29but on the day when Lot went out from Sodom, fire and sulfur rained from heaven and destroyed them all— 30so will it be on the day when the Son of Man is revealed.  (Luke 17:26-30)

 

...when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with his mighty angels 8in flaming fire, inflicting vengeance on those who do not know God and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. 9They will suffer the punishment of eternal destruction, away from^b the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might, 10when he comes on that day to be glorified in his saints, and to be marveled at among all who have believed, because our testimony to you was believed. (2 Thessalonians 1:7-10)

 

 

10But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, and then the heavens will pass away with a roar, and the heavenly bodies^b will be burned up and dissolved, and the earth and the works that are done on it will be exposed.^c (2 Peter 3:10-12)

 

1^a “For behold, the day is coming, burning like an oven, when all the arrogant and all evildoers will be stubble. The day that is coming shall set them ablaze, says the LORD of hosts, so that it will leave them neither root nor branch. 2But for you who fear my name, the sun of righteousness shall rise with healing in its wings. You shall go out leaping like calves from the stall. 3And you shall tread down the wicked, for they will be ashes under the soles of your feet, on the day when I act, says the LORD of hosts. (Malachi 4:1-3)

 

Proof that the antichrist is defeated on the day that Jesus returns:

 

8And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will kill with the breath of his mouth and bring to nothing by the appearance of his coming. (2 Thessalonians 2:8)

 

This means that Revelation 19:11-21 is also referring to the day of Christ's return (and there is only one). 

 

 

Proof that the thousand years come before the Tribulation

 

12The sixth angel poured out his bowl on the great river Euphrates, and its water was dried up, to prepare the way for the kings from the east. 13And I saw, coming out of the mouth of the dragon and out of the mouth of the beast and out of the mouth of the false prophet, three unclean spirits like frogs. 14For they are demonic spirits, performing signs, who go abroad to the kings of the whole world, to assemble them for battle on the great day of God the Almighty. (Revelation 16:12-14)

 

This is the same event described in Revelation 20:7,8:  7And when the thousand years are ended, Satan will be released from his prison 8and will come out to deceive the nations that are at the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them for battle; their number is like the sand of the sea.

 

The battle of Armegeddon takes place on the day Jesus returns:   19And I saw the beast and the kings of the earth with their armies gathered to make war against him who was sitting on the horse and against his army. 20And the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who in its presence^e had done the signs by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped its image. These two were thrown alive into the lake of fire that burns with sulfur. (Rev 19:19,20)

 

So when is Jesus going to defeat the antichrist in the battle of Armegeddon? On the day of His coming. (See 2 Thessalonians 2:8 above.) He's not going to defeat the antichrist twice. So Revelation 19 and 2 Thessalonians 2 refer to the same event on the same day.

 

And when will Satan be released to deceive the nations and prepare them for the battle of Armegeddon? When the thousand years are ended. Revelation 16:12-16, 19:11-21, and 20:7-10 all refer to the same battle. The beast and the false prophet are captured and destroyed first, then Satan. We know this takes place on the same day because the antichrist is defeated at the coming of Christ, and we know the other events of the last day that will take place when Christ returns, with His angels.

 

There's not going to be a thousand year reign of saints on this earth, either before or after the Tribulation. If it occurs before, it would require Christ and the saints to return to earth to reign for a thousand years, then go back up to heaven for the duration of the Tribulation when Satan is released, then return a second time for the resurrection of the dead and the rapture of the living saints on the last day. That's nonsense, according to the Scriptures.

 

Nor can the thousand years take place after the Tribulation, because the Tribulation won't begin until Satan is released from the bottomless pit, which is after the thousand year reign of the saints. Then he must be released for "a short time" (Revelation 20:3). That "short time", also mentioned in Revelation 12:12, is the Tribulation---originally seven years, shortened to approximately three and a half years by God for the sake of the elect (the saints). 

 

At the end of the Tribulation, Jesus returns (Matthew 24:29-31), defeats the antichrist and Satan, the dead are raised, the world is destroyed, the judgment takes place, the new heaven and earth are created, and the saints possess the kingdom forever. Not for a thousand years.

 

People who are trying to fit a thousand year earthly reign of the saints into the chronology of the Revelation and other end-time scriptures have to contort and misinterpret them to do so. But as you can see from what I provided above, it's impossible to do. It doesn't fit before, during, or after the Tribulation, as an earthly reign. Logic, and comparing the scriptures that speak of the same events, with the help of the Holy Spirit, debunks the erroneous teaching of an earthly thousand year reign of the saints with Christ.

 

The thousand year reign can only take place in heaven. And it has been taking place there for nearly a thousand years. Satan is about to be released from his prison, and after making war with his demons against the holy angels in heaven, he will be cast down to earth and enter the person of the antichrist, and begin to persecute Christians; and the Tribulation will begin. 

12Therefore, rejoice, O heavens and you who dwell in them! But woe to you, O earth and sea, for the devil has come down to you in great wrath, because he knows that his time is short!”

13And when the dragon saw that he had been thrown down to the earth, he pursued the woman who had given birth to the male child. 14But the woman was given the two wings of the great eagle so that she might fly from the serpent into the wilderness, to the place where she is to be nourished for a time, and times, and half a time... 17Then the dragon became furious with the woman and went off to make war on the rest of her offspring, on those who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus. (Revelation 12:13,14,17)  

As for the first and second resurrections mentioned in Revelation chapter 20:

 

4Then I saw thrones, and seated on them were those to whom the authority to judge was committed. Also I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. 5The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended. This is the first resurrection. 6Blessed and holy is the one who shares in the first resurrection! Over such the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and they will reign with him for a thousand years. (Revelation 20:4-6)

 

these scriptures can be correctly understood by comparing them with other scriptures that clarify the timing and meaning of what is described in them. "They came to life" (verse 4) refers to spiritual rebirth, not being bodily resurrected. We know this because we know the timing of the bodily resurrection of the dead, of which there is only one---of both the righteous and the unrighteous---on the last day of the Tribulation, when Jesus returns; and because verse 5 and 6 explain that "they came to life" refers to the "first resurrection", which is the resurrection that saves from the lake of fire---being born again. 

 

There are not two physical resurrections; so what verse 5 is speaking about ("the rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended") is the last day when the dead are bodily raised. The saints who are reigning with Christ in heaven are saints who have died, obviously. But they have eternal life. And that is what taking part in the "first resurrection" means---that that they were raised to life in Christ.

 

 25Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life.^d Whoever believes in me, though he die, yet shall he live, 26and everyone who lives and believes in me shall never die. (John 11:25,26)

 

"The rest" of those who have physically died (both righteous and unrighteous), (Rev 20:5), will be bodily resurrected on the last day when Jesus returns, at the one resurrection of the dead.

 

Here is an explanation of the two resurrections Revelation 20 mentions:

 

25“Truly, truly, I say to you, an hour is coming, and is now here, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live. (This is the spiritual resurrection; being born again.) 26For as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted the Son also to have life in himself. 27And he has given him authority to execute judgment, because he is the Son of Man. 28Do not marvel at this, for an hour is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear his voice 29and come out,  those who have done good to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil to the resurrection of judgment. (This is the physical resurrection of the dead on the day Jesus returns.) (John 5:25-29)

 

The saints in heaven haven't taken the mark of the beast or worshiped his image (Rev 20:4), because those things haven't happened yet. (See Revelation 3:10 for example). Some of these saints were martyred by beheading. They conquered Satan, the dragon---not the antichrist---by the blood of the Lamb and the word of their testimony, for they loved not their lives even unto death (Rev 12:11). 

 

We (Christians who will be going through the Tribulation) are given these saints for an example to follow, that we should conquer the dragon, Satan (who will be indwelling the person of the antichrist), by laying our own lives down for Jesus, if necessary, as these saints in heaven have done. (See also Revelation 6:9-11).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Steve_S]

I believe this thread has probably ran its course. Locked.