Unfruitful Christians

[Neighbor]

11 hours ago, 4LdKHVCzRDj2 said:

"And this we will do if God permits." - Hebrews 6:3

 

Yes, all the time. All the time!

"If we are faithless, He remains faithful; He cannot deny Himself." - 2 Timothy 2:13

 

Your message hit me with happiness... Thank you!

 

God bless you, angels4u! 

Hi, hoping it will bear fruit in a new thread soon and very soon! Perhaps it has already, have I missed it? I will so enjoy reading  posts there.

[Heleadethme]

11 hours ago, OneLight said:

If you want credibility, do use assumptions.  If you inform the reader you are assuming, that's one thing and acceptable, as assumptions are not creditable.  If you claim this as fact and are wrong, you are basically lying to bolster your theory.  God does not accuse the brethren falsely. 

When the LORD opens our eyes to something.........that is not an assumption.  What that is, is how HE is seeing the situation.  Which is far more reliable and true than how we might see it with our own eyes of flesh and natural understanding.

But where we need to be particularly careful is the kind of judgments we may form based on what the Lord shows us.......we know in part, and we see through a glass darkly, and if we think we know we do not yet know as we ought.  So we try to keep our eyes on the Lord and judge nothing before the time, holding onto everything else loosely, so to speak.......but at the same time walking by the light He is giving.

[Heleadethme]

2 hours ago, Neighbor said:

Hi, hoping it will bear fruit in a new thread soon and very soon! Perhaps it has already, have I missed it? I will so enjoy reading  posts there.

Hebrew 12:11

Now no chastening seems to be joyful for the present, but painful; nevertheless, afterward it yields the peaceable fruit of righteousness to those who have been trained by it.

There will be no crown for anyone without the bearing of a cross, that's for sure......that said though, we need to have a good balance of all things in the Body.....comfort, encouragement, ministry of the Holy Spirit, as well as exhortation, admonishment, reproof.......why all the gifts are needful.  Too much comfort and not enough exhorting is just as bad as too much exhorting and not enough comfort.......we end up with either a soft sinning church or a demoralized one.  But God knows how to keep it all in balance when all the parts/gifts are working and His Spirit is present and reigning.  Just that where do we even see that?  I think if we just don't overemphasize any one thing at the expense of something else, we do well.  No question the majority of churches today do make that mistake.  It's also how denominations get formed.  Will we ever get it right before Jesus returns.....i don't know, I just know what a bumpy ride this is, fraught with pitfalls everywhere we walk.....the gates of hell sure keep trying.......we just have to believe that somehow, somehow, the gates of hell will not prevail over His church when all is said and done, and keep marching on, day by day being led by Him.  Love the truth, embrace it even when it hurts......I think this life is like a bootcamp and training for our real jobs in eternity.....but we do need to overcome.  And that His church really is made up only of those who overcome.....Jesus was not really talking about the visible churches built by human hands and four walls of brick (or crystal, heh), He was looking ahead and only talking about all the overcomers whom the gates of hell did not prevail over.  And overcoming is by His definition, not man's measure.  So bumble on we will, Lord willing, and with His Help and by His grace.

Edited January 31, 2018 by Heleadethme

[OneLight]

1 hour ago, Heleadethme said:

When the LORD opens our eyes to something.........that is not an assumption.  What that is, is how HE is seeing the situation.  Which is far more reliable and true than how we might see it with our own eyes of flesh and natural understanding.

But where we need to be particularly careful is the kind of judgments we may form based on what the Lord shows us.......we know in part, and we see through a glass darkly, and if we think we know we do not yet know as we ought.  So we try to keep our eyes on the Lord and judge nothing before the time, holding onto everything else loosely, so to speak.......but at the same time walking by the light He is giving.

My friend, the Lord knows specifics as He knows all.   He never would be an accuser of one of His own and He would never tell you to be one either.  I agree that we know in part, and which is why it is important NOT to use generalities, or blanket statements, when speaking about His body.  Statements like churches in the US or churches in the western world are blanket statements.  In the all encompassing statement, you are talking about both the good and the bad, when the speaker should be speaking about only those who have erred. 

Allow me to try to explain it one more time.  A new christian joins this site to find others who believe, seek guidance and to grow in Christ.  He stumbles across someone thread that says something like Today's churches are follow Satan ... beware!  How is this going to encourage this babe in Christ to find a local body so they can grow and become part of the local community when what they have been reading is the churches are not what they claim to be?

I agree that there are false teachers leading churches in this world, not just the US.  Those should be specifically mentioned and the reasons why.  This way, the one exposing the false teacher, and where this false teacher is teaching, is actually giving a true warning.  Just saying that "many churches are the tool of the devil" or something similar does absolutely nothing but place fear into the hearts and minds of the readers as now they have no idea which churches these are and will look at every church they come across, wondering if this is one of them.

I suggest that if people cannot give specifics, they should should neither give out blanket statements.

[4LdKHVCzRDj2]

4 hours ago, Heleadethme said:

Jesus was not really talking about the visible churches built by human hands and four walls of brick

Definitely.

The Lord said we shall know them by their fruits, and sincerely speaking, he put the tolerance on very high. It is people today who try to lower the level of His warnings so they can be comfortable with their evil habits. But I really encourage all of us not to even look at the shadow of evil, and if doing that is good then why shouldn't we do?!

"Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit.
A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit." - Matthew 7:17-18

 

Which encourage us to really go and ask Him daily to cleanse our hearts and keep it from evil every single day.

"If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children,
how much more will your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask Him!" - Luke 11:13

 

And for that it requires us to humble ourselves daily, not only before Him but before other people as well... Because many times we see ourselves in a situation that we would like to do different and lose patience and break everything, with all sincerity.

"and said, “Assuredly, I say to you, unless you are converted and become as little children, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven." - Matthew 18:3

"Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God." - John 3:5

 

And how many people simply forget to humble themselves, to seek Him and to welcome in their lives daily?! The Lord has said to us many times, to humble ourselves, to be humble.

And to seek for His mercy daily, to forgive others just as He forgives us... And I say daily because we are not perfect, even when we try, when we seek to please Him daily with all humbleness we still fail occasionally. Isn't that true?!

"And whoever desires to be first among you, let him be your slave" - Matthew 20:27

"And having been set free from sin, you became slaves of righteousness." - Romans 6:18

"Blessed are the poor in spirit, For theirs is the kingdom of heaven." - Matthew 5:3

"Therefore whoever humbles himself as this little child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven." - Matthew 18:4

 

And the Lord Himself, who showed us a great example of humbleness too... If He, being what He is, did it, then how much more should we humble ourselves daily?! REMINDER: WE ARE NOTHING.

"Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus,
who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God,
but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men.
And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross." - Philippians 2:5-8

 

Then when we simply choose to do evil, or excuse our evil habits by remembering His sacrifice: "Oh, I am not perfect... I will not even try to... Because the sacrifice is there for my sins."

The Lord said: "I desire mercy and not sacrifice". Humble yourselves, humble yourselves, repent, seek the Holy Spirit.

"But go and learn what this means: ‘I desire mercy and not sacrifice.’
For I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners, to repentance." - Matthew 9:13

 

And I admit this is something useful for all of us, but especially for me. If it is for you who are reading this, thank the Lord Jesus.

"Test all things; hold fast what is good. Abstain from every form of evil." - 1 Thessalonians 5:21-22

 

Glory to God! Amen.

Edited January 31, 2018 by 4LdKHVCzRDj2

[Heleadethme]

1 hour ago, OneLight said:

My friend, the Lord knows specifics as He knows all.   He never would be an accuser of one of His own and He would never tell you to be one either.  I agree that we know in part, and which is why it is important NOT to use generalities, or blanket statements, when speaking about His body.  Statements like churches in the US or churches in the western world are blanket statements.  In the all encompassing statement, you are talking about both the good and the bad, when the speaker should be speaking about only those who have erred. 

Allow me to try to explain it one more time.  A new christian joins this site to find others who believe, seek guidance and to grow in Christ.  He stumbles across someone thread that says something like Today's churches are follow Satan ... beware!  How is this going to encourage this babe in Christ to find a local body so they can grow and become part of the local community when what they have been reading is the churches are not what they claim to be?

I agree that there are false teachers leading churches in this world, not just the US.  Those should be specifically mentioned and the reasons why.  This way, the one exposing the false teacher, and where this false teacher is teaching, is actually giving a true warning.  Just saying that "many churches are the tool of the devil" or something similar does absolutely nothing but place fear into the hearts and minds of the readers as now they have no idea which churches these are and will look at every church they come across, wondering if this is one of them.

I suggest that if people cannot give specifics, they should should neither give out blanket statements.

well I might not be giving it quite so much thought.......I just look at it that if I see a bus full of people going over a cliff......and I yell to the passengers  "that bus is going over the cliff....JUMP OUT NOW!" ......am I judging/condemning the bus or is that just a warning of the present reality.

[Heleadethme]

50 minutes ago, 4LdKHVCzRDj2 said:

Definitely.

The Lord said we shall know them by their fruits, and sincerely speaking, he put the tolerance on very high. It is people today who try to lower the level of His warnings so they can be comfortable with their evil habits. But I really encourage all of us not to even look at the shadow of evil, and if doing that is good then why shouldn't we do?!

"Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit.
A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit." - Matthew 7:17-18

 

Which encourage us to really go and ask Him daily to cleanse our hearts and keep it from evil every single day.

"If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children,
how much more will your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask Him!" - Luke 11:13

 

And for that it requires us to humble ourselves daily, not only before Him but before other people as well... Because many times we see ourselves in a situation that we would like to do different and lose patience and break everything, with all sincerity.

"and said, “Assuredly, I say to you, unless you are converted and become as little children, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven." - Matthew 18:3

"Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God." - John 3:5

 

And how many people simply forget to humble themselves, to seek Him and to welcome in their lives daily?! The Lord has said to us many times, to humble ourselves, to be humble.

And to seek for His mercy daily, to forgive others just as He forgives us... And I say daily because we are not perfect, even when we try, when we seek to please Him daily with all humbleness we still fail occasionally. Isn't that true?!

"And whoever desires to be first among you, let him be your slave" - Matthew 20:27

"And having been set free from sin, you became slaves of righteousness." - Romans 6:18

"Blessed are the poor in spirit, For theirs is the kingdom of heaven." - Matthew 5:3

"Therefore whoever humbles himself as this little child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven." - Matthew 18:4

 

And the Lord Himself, who showed us a great example of humbleness too... If He, being what He is, did it, then how much more should we humble ourselves daily?! REMINDER: WE ARE NOTHING.

"Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus,
who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God,
but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men.
And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross." - Philippians 2:5-8

 

Then when people simply choose to do evil, or excuse their evil habits by remembering His sacrifice: "Oh, I am not perfect... I will not even try to... Because the sacrifice is there for my sins."

The Lord said: "I desire mercy and not sacrifice". Humble yourselves, humble yourselves, repent, seek the Holy Spirit.

"But go and learn what this means: ‘I desire mercy and not sacrifice.’
For I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners, to repentance." - Matthew 9:13

 

And I admit this is something useful for all of us, but especially for me. If it is for you who are reading this, thank the Lord Jesus.

"Test all things; hold fast what is good. Abstain from every form of evil." - 1 Thessalonians 5:21-22

 

Glory to God! Amen.

If we can live comfortably and ignore our sin, then something is wrong.  and amen, yes we do make mistakes, and hopefully learn from them....even our mistakes should humble us more.......and remind us that we are nothing, amen.......just like at the beginning, in the end we realize we have nothing of our own , nothing, nada.....nothing but a cup of His Blood can we offer and it is the only reason we are allowed admittance to heaven.  He is the beginning and the end, and so that comes to be our realization more and more once again as we near the end..  Part of a Psalm I was reading this morning:

Psalm 44:3

For they got not the land in possession by their own sword, neither did their own arm save them: but thy right hand, and thine arm, and the light of thy countenance, because thou hadst a favour unto them.

Just His sovereign mercy, He has mercy on who He has mercy.  And then after that good confession, another:

Psalm 44:4

Thou art my King, O God: command deliverances for Jacob.

Praise the name of the Lord, amen.

 

 

[frienduff thaylorde]

3 hours ago, Heleadethme said:

Hebrew 12:11

Now no chastening seems to be joyful for the present, but painful; nevertheless, afterward it yields the peaceable fruit of righteousness to those who have been trained by it.

There will be no crown for anyone without the bearing of a cross, that's for sure......that said though, we need to have a good balance of all things in the Body.....comfort, encouragement, ministry of the Holy Spirit, as well as exhortation, admonishment, reproof.......why all the gifts are needful.  Too much comfort and not enough exhorting is just as bad as too much exhorting and not enough comfort.......we end up with either a soft sinning church or a demoralized one.  But God knows how to keep it all in balance when all the parts/gifts are working and His Spirit is present and reigning.  Just that where do we even see that?  I think if we just don't overemphasize any one thing at the expense of something else, we do well.  No question the majority of churches today do make that mistake.  It's also how denominations get formed.  Will we ever get it right before Jesus returns.....i don't know, I just know what a bumpy ride this is, fraught with pitfalls everywhere we walk.....the gates of hell sure keep trying.......we just have to believe that somehow, somehow, the gates of hell will not prevail over His church when all is said and done, and keep marching on, day by day being led by Him.  Love the truth, embrace it even when it hurts......I think this life is like a bootcamp and training for our real jobs in eternity.....but we do need to overcome.  And that His church really is made up only of those who overcome.....Jesus was not really talking about the visible churches built by human hands and four walls of brick (or crystal, heh), He was looking ahead and only talking about all the overcomers whom the gates of hell did not prevail over.  And overcoming is by His definition, not man's measure.  So bumble on we will, Lord willing, and with His Help and by His grace.

I have learned and am learning that we must simply speak AS the SPIRIT leads.

and one thing is sure.    IF our heart is not truly desiring what is best for those we warn or encourage,

then its just better not to speak till it is.    Many just argue cause by golly THEY RIGHT and they have no heart for those who they are rebuking or teaching.

But their truly are those whose heart IS FOR THE LORD FIRST , HE leads them and the REAL LOVE of GOD is in them.

SO when they see error,  instantly they do correct , because they REALLY TRULY DO desire the welfare of the other .

Whether it comes grave or whether it comes softly they will simply speak truth.   God is real, HIS SPIRIT IS REAL and if we have it , 

We do walk as did our Lord, FOR IT IS HE IN US WORKING that which is well pleasing n his sight.   And this is surely NOT to be confused

with that wicked new age which says WE ARE CHRIST .   that is LIE.   we are OF CHRIST , that is truth .

And since all mankind still resides in the flesh,  we must test all those who speak , for man is fallible , GOD IS NOT

thus all must be tested,   me and all must be tested all the time .    But let us not test one another by doctrines of what men have said

but rather GET WELL FED in that bible so we can truly be fed .    IF we keep on keeping on in mens certain doctrines which though some know it not

are under and they are false, then how will they ever know .    AKA,  GET Back in BIBLES,    Read bibles, love bibles and feed from those pages

and get well fed so as we are no longer tossed round and round by the cleverness of men and their often contrary doctrines.

 

[frienduff thaylorde]

3 hours ago, OneLight said:

My friend, the Lord knows specifics as He knows all.   He never would be an accuser of one of His own and He would never tell you to be one either.  I agree that we know in part, and which is why it is important NOT to use generalities, or blanket statements, when speaking about His body.  Statements like churches in the US or churches in the western world are blanket statements.  In the all encompassing statement, you are talking about both the good and the bad, when the speaker should be speaking about only those who have erred. 

Allow me to try to explain it one more time.  A new christian joins this site to find others who believe, seek guidance and to grow in Christ.  He stumbles across someone thread that says something like Today's churches are follow Satan ... beware!  How is this going to encourage this babe in Christ to find a local body so they can grow and become part of the local community when what they have been reading is the churches are not what they claim to be?

I agree that there are false teachers leading churches in this world, not just the US.  Those should be specifically mentioned and the reasons why.  This way, the one exposing the false teacher, and where this false teacher is teaching, is actually giving a true warning.  Just saying that "many churches are the tool of the devil" or something similar does absolutely nothing but place fear into the hearts and minds of the readers as now they have no idea which churches these are and will look at every church they come across, wondering if this is one of them.

I suggest that if people cannot give specifics, they should should neither give out blanket statements.

 He never would be an accuser of one of His own and He would never tell you to be one either

To warn and say you adulterers or adulteresses,    IS that not AN accusation.    perhaps james could learn from you .   I don't say that to be mean , just to make a point .

As for the other part where you said suppose a new christain stumbles along and sees something that says todays churches are of satan.

Believe me , even as a babe i heard many false things,   GOOD NEWS , GOD KEPT ME .   He will any who are of Him.

But i suppose we could say instead , many of todays churches are of satan  therefore read that bible heavy , test all you hear

if one you goes into is speaking contrary , talk to the leaders and pray they hear , if they don't FLEE AND NEVER LOOK back

The truth is many churches are now a tool of the devil.    I don't OVERTHINK what i should say , JUST LET the SPIRIT lead and

you will surely say what needs to get said.    

[frienduff thaylorde]

2 hours ago, 4LdKHVCzRDj2 said:

Definitely.

The Lord said we shall know them by their fruits, and sincerely speaking, he put the tolerance on very high. It is people today who try to lower the level of His warnings so they can be comfortable with their evil habits. But I really encourage all of us not to even look at the shadow of evil, and if doing that is good then why shouldn't we do?!

"Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit.
A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit." - Matthew 7:17-18

 

Which encourage us to really go and ask Him daily to cleanse our hearts and keep it from evil every single day.

"If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children,
how much more will your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask Him!" - Luke 11:13

 

And for that it requires us to humble ourselves daily, not only before Him but before other people as well... Because many times we see ourselves in a situation that we would like to do different and lose patience and break everything, with all sincerity.

"and said, “Assuredly, I say to you, unless you are converted and become as little children, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven." - Matthew 18:3

"Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God." - John 3:5

 

And how many people simply forget to humble themselves, to seek Him and to welcome in their lives daily?! The Lord has said to us many times, to humble ourselves, to be humble.

And to seek for His mercy daily, to forgive others just as He forgives us... And I say daily because we are not perfect, even when we try, when we seek to please Him daily with all humbleness we still fail occasionally. Isn't that true?!

"And whoever desires to be first among you, let him be your slave" - Matthew 20:27

"And having been set free from sin, you became slaves of righteousness." - Romans 6:18

"Blessed are the poor in spirit, For theirs is the kingdom of heaven." - Matthew 5:3

"Therefore whoever humbles himself as this little child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven." - Matthew 18:4

 

And the Lord Himself, who showed us a great example of humbleness too... If He, being what He is, did it, then how much more should we humble ourselves daily?! REMINDER: WE ARE NOTHING.

"Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus,
who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God,
but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men.
And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross." - Philippians 2:5-8

 

Then when people simply choose to do evil, or excuse their evil habits by remembering His sacrifice: "Oh, I am not perfect... I will not even try to... Because the sacrifice is there for my sins."

The Lord said: "I desire mercy and not sacrifice". Humble yourselves, humble yourselves, repent, seek the Holy Spirit.

"But go and learn what this means: ‘I desire mercy and not sacrifice.’
For I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners, to repentance." - Matthew 9:13

 

And I admit this is something useful for all of us, but especially for me. If it is for you who are reading this, thank the Lord Jesus.

"Test all things; hold fast what is good. Abstain from every form of evil." - 1 Thessalonians 5:21-22

 

Glory to God! Amen.

Now that needs to get read again.   THAT shows humility and that shows that while we are truly weak,  IF WE HUMBLE ourselves unto HIM DAILY

he will be our strength to overcome ANY EVIL of that day.    JESUS was tempted in all points   ,  yet sinned not .

HE IS able to SUCCOR US in any trial or temptation .   And only HE ALONE CAN.    We must never give up and say HEY WE SLAVES we cant quit,

INSTEAD we must humble ourselves and cry daily to the LORD,  and FIND that indeed HE WILL GIVE a way out of every temptation and a way through every trial

and that way IS CHRIST , IT IS THE SPIRIT by which if we walk after and obey its unctions we would NOT fulfill the lusts of that contrary flesh.

THE POWER of GOD IS REAL and the POWER OF GOD is the GOSPLE OF JESUS CHRIST , ALL HIS SAYINGS , ALL HIS REMINDERs and the HOLY GHOST does REMIND US of

all that HE has said .     NOW HOW SIMPLE IS THAT .