WHAT IS THE FALLING AWAY

[RevelationWriter]

On ‎3‎/‎28‎/‎2018 at 9:00 PM, wingnut- said:

 

And yet in Luke's account, Jesus specifically says they believe.  You want to discount that, I will not.  You are also skimming past the reason they fall away, which is not properly summarized by your commentaries.

 

Matthew 13:21 yet he has no root in himself, but endures for a while, and when tribulation or persecution arises on account of the word, immediately he falls away.

 

Mark 4:17 And they have no root in themselves, but endure for a while; then, when tribulation or persecution arises on account of the word, immediately they fall away.

 

They specifically fall away because trouble comes on account of the word, meaning they are more concerned about their standing amongst their peers than they are with God.  Jesus warns us about what will happen if we deny Him in front of men, and not to love our lives so much as to shrink from death.

 

 

What are you implying, Luke isn't God breathed scripture?   The entire point of multiple witnesses are variations in details, this is part of what lends credibility to the entire history of the bible.  I guess that means what Matthew records in the Olivet Discourse that Mark and Luke do not is rendered moot as well to you?

 

Matthew 24:10 And then many will fall away and betray one another and hate one another.

 

 

Gotcha, you are not interested in an actual discussion, so you will evade addressing anything and respond to a question with a question that has nothing to do with the topic.  Not interested in red herrings, if this is the direction you want to go, we can end this here.  I have better things to do with my time.

 

 

Sigh, again, a dodge of a simple question.  I get it, you can't answer it without blowing up your position.  However, we both know that one cannot accept the mark of the beast and retain salvation.

It would be pointless to ask you anymore questions, since you are unwilling to answer them anyway, so I will just share some scripture for anyone reading, and they can ask themselves what the point of all the warnings are in light of your position.  These are all warnings given to the church, so pay attention.

 

Revelation 2:5 Remember therefore from where you have fallen; repent, and do the works you did at first. If not, I will come to you and remove your lampstand from its place, unless you repent.

 

He will remove their lampstand unless the repent, doesn't support your position.

 

Revelation 2:10 Do not fear what you are about to suffer. Behold, the devil is about to throw some of you into prison, that you may be tested, and for ten days you will have tribulation. Be faithful unto death, and I will give you the crown of life.

 

Be faithful unto death, doesn't support your position.

 

Revelation 2:16 Therefore repent. If not, I will come to you soon and war against them with the sword of my mouth.

 

Repent or they will end up on the wrong side of His wrath, doesn't support your position.

 

Revelation 2: 21 I gave her time to repent, but she refuses to repent of her sexual immorality. 22 Behold, I will throw her onto a sickbed, and those who commit adultery with her I will throw into great tribulation, unless they repent of her works, 23 and I will strike her children dead. And all the churches will know that I am he who searches mind and heart, and I will give to each of you according to your works.

 

Again, repentance is demanded, doesn't support your position.

 

Revelation 3:1  “‘I know your works. You have the reputation of being alive, but you are dead. 2 Wake up, and strengthen what remains and is about to die, for I have not found your works complete in the sight of my God.3 Remember, then, what you received and heard. Keep it, and repent. If you will not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what hour I will come against you.

 

Repentance again demanded, starting to see a theme here, doesn't support your position.

 

Revelation 3:17 For you say, I am rich, I have prospered, and I need nothing, not realizing that you are wretched, pitiable, poor, blind, and naked. 18 I counsel you to buy from me gold refined by fire, so that you may be rich, and white garments so that you may clothe yourself and the shame of your nakedness may not be seen, and salve to anoint your eyes, so that you may see. 19 Those whom I love, I reprove and discipline, so be zealous and repent.

 

Again, told to repent, doesn't support your position.  Exactly what do they have to fear if as you claim, there is nothing to fear?  If repentance is only required at one moment in time, then why all the warnings?  These are all letters to churches, not to unbelievers.  There is another theme within them as well, the one who conquers, is victorious, or overcomes receives the promises.

 

 

Yes, and that is covered in Revelation 12 also.

 

Revelation 12:4 His tail swept down a third of the stars of heaven and cast them to the earth. And the dragon stood before the woman who was about to give birth, so that when she bore her child he might devour it.

 

That's a depiction of what Herod did, and why Jesus was born in a manger.  Remember your history, and the census that was enacted to kill Jesus at birth.  I recall from past discussions you hold a very unusual understanding of this chapter, although I had hoped when your predictions didn't pan out you would have seen the error in it, maybe not.

God bless

 

 

 

 

 

- Remember the parable of The Sower being Jesus sowed His seed the word into Good Soil.

The Sower knew the seed which fell by the way side would not produce He did not expect it to. And we shouldn't either.

[RevelationWriter]

On ‎3‎/‎28‎/‎2018 at 6:43 PM, Heb 13:8 said:

For what scripture?

- Paul said, the falling away reveals the man of sin. - 2Thess.2:3 

This falling away doesn't reveal backsliders. It is the Mystery of lawlessness that falls away and reveals the man of sin for there is no longer any Mystery or secret to sin anymore. Sin has become publically prideful instead. 

- Matt.24: When Jesus speaks of Lawlessness He said 'Many Will Be Offended" and because Lawlessness Will Abound the love of many will grow cold. Which is what we have today as well with no one backsliding here either.

[Heb 13:8]

43 minutes ago, RevelationWriter said:

- Paul said, the falling away reveals the man of sin. - 2Thess.2:3 

This falling away doesn't reveal backsliders. It is the Mystery of lawlessness that falls away and reveals the man of sin for there is no longer any Mystery or secret to sin anymore. Sin has become publically prideful instead. 

- Matt.24: When Jesus speaks of Lawlessness He said 'Many Will Be Offended" and because Lawlessness Will Abound the love of many will grow cold. Which is what we have today as well with no one backsliding here either.

Wouldn't the "gathering together unto him" (the rapture) reveal believers from nonbelievers? Less we be shaken in mind or be troubled or lack encouragement...

1 Thess 4:17-18 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. 18Therefore encourage one another with these words.

1 Thess 5:10-11 He died for us so that, whether we are awake or asleep, we may live together with him. 11Therefore encourage one another and build each other up, just as in fact you are doing.

2 Thess 2:1-2 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

Heb 10:24-25 And let us consider how we may spur one another on toward love and good deeds, 25not giving up meeting together, as some are in the habit of doing, but encouraging one another—and all the more as you see the Day approaching.

[patrick jane]

What about the first death and the second death? Are we purified by fire when we pay for every jot and tittle?

[wingnut-]

6 hours ago, Heb 13:8 said:

If it already played out 2,000 years ago, then who was (raptured) harpazo'd in Rev 12:5?

 

Matthew 27:52 The tombs also were opened. And many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised,

 

The same group I already showed you.

 

6 hours ago, Heb 13:8 said:

I would say that's incorrect. The word ascended in Eph 4:8 is anabainó, not harpazo. Harpazo is in 1 Thess 4:17 and Rev 12:5 (both rapture verses).

 

Jesus was not harpazo, and when He ascended, they were not seen.  They were not seen then, because He gathered them just like the second time.

 

Luke 24:50 And he led them out as far as Bethany, and lifting up his hands he blessed them. 51 While he blessed them, he parted from them and was carried up into heaven.

 

 

See, no one with Him at that point.

 

Acts 1: 9 And when he had said these things, as they were looking on, he was lifted up, and a cloud took him out of their sight. 10 And while they were gazing into heaven as he went, behold, two men stood by them in white robes, 11 and said, “Men of Galilee, why do you stand looking into heaven? This Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will come in the same way as you saw him go into heaven.”

 

He will come in the same way, and before you decide that has anything to do with a cloud that took Him out of sight, remember, every eye sees Him returning.  He left into the clouds, gathered the captives He led on high, and when He returns in the clouds, He will gather those who are His at that time.

God bless

[Heb 13:8]

2 hours ago, patrick jane said:

What about the first death and the second death? Are we purified by fire when we pay for every jot and tittle?

We paid, or Christ paid? 

[Heb 13:8]

38 minutes ago, wingnut- said:

Matthew 27:52 The tombs also were opened. And many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised,

 

The same group I already showed you.

And what about the rest of us? 

Rev 2:26-27 To the one who is victorious and does my will to the end, I will give authority over the nations— 27that one ‘will rule them with an iron scepter and will dash them to pieces like pottery’ —just as I have received authority from my Father. 

Rev 12:5 She gave birth to a son, a male child, who "will rule all the nations with an iron scepter." And her child was snatched up to God and to his throne.

Quote

Jesus was not harpazo

Correct. The word harpazo is a reference to first resurrection and rapture, which is all future.

Quote

Luke 24:50 And he led them out as far as Bethany, and lifting up his hands he blessed them. 51 While he blessed them, he parted from them and was carried up into heaven.

 

See, no one with Him at that point.

 

Acts 1: 9 And when he had said these things, as they were looking on, he was lifted up, and a cloud took him out of their sight. 10 And while they were gazing into heaven as he went, behold, two men stood by them in white robes, 11 and said, “Men of Galilee, why do you stand looking into heaven? This Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will come in the same way as you saw him go into heaven.”

 

He will come in the same way, and before you decide that has anything to do with a cloud that took Him out of sight, remember, every eye sees Him returning.  He left into the clouds, gathered the captives He led on high, and when He returns in the clouds, He will gather those who are His at that time.

What point are you trying to make here. Your thoughts are scattered.

[wingnut-]

5 minutes ago, Heb 13:8 said:

What point are you trying to make here. Your thoughts are scattered.

 

Nothing you will understand, carry on in your false predictions.

[Heb 13:8]

4 minutes ago, wingnut- said:

Nothing you will understand, carry on in your false predictions.

Intelligent come back.    Reply tmrw. Bye.

[RevelationWriter]

On ‎3‎/‎30‎/‎2018 at 5:54 PM, Heb 13:8 said:

Wouldn't the "gathering together unto him" (the rapture) reveal believers from nonbelievers? Less we be shaken in mind or be troubled or lack encouragement...

1 Thess 4:17-18 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. 18Therefore encourage one another with these words.

1 Thess 5:10-11 He died for us so that, whether we are awake or asleep, we may live together with him. 11Therefore encourage one another and build each other up, just as in fact you are doing.

2 Thess 2:1-2 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

Heb 10:24-25 And let us consider how we may spur one another on toward love and good deeds, 25not giving up meeting together, as some are in the habit of doing, but encouraging one another—and all the more as you see the Day approaching.

- The Wise Virgins who'll be ready to be taken into The Wedding by The Bridegroom

will send The Foolish Virgins away....so The Wise Virgins will already know who The Foolish are.

It's The Foolish who'll not know who they are till they're too late for The Wedding. - Matt.25

- We have to consider some things about Paul, and what Paul said of both a Rapture and a Resurrection together.

1. Paul did not have "The Revelation Of Jesus Christ" given to John for the churches, being after Paul's death.

So his perception a Rapture and a Resurrection is erroneous of future Prophecy. 

2. Paul considered both a Rapture & Resurrection would take place together.

So Pastors of Paul have taught it the way Paul said it. But that's not what "The Revelation Of Jesus Christ" says to the churches.

- A Rapture Only:  The Wise Virgins = Heavenly New Jerusalemite Pillars = The Great Multitude - Matt.25 * Rev.3:7-13 * Rev.7:9 * Rev.19

- 1st Resurrection: is of those who sit on Thrones & those beheaded by the Beast: 

Matt.19:28 * Rev.4:4 * (Rev.4:10-Rev.19:12) * Rev.5:10 *(Rev.13:15-Rev.14) * Rev.20:4-6

(of course there'll be some alive on earth at this time)

We must remember when Jesus comes back (Rev.19) it is to defeat His enemies as King to set up the Davidic Throne of His father David on earth Gentiles are not a part of this Davidic Kingdom on earth which His 12 Apostles will be Judges of The 12 Tribes Of Israel (Matt.19:28) which is the 144,000 of all the tribes of The Children Of Israel (Rev.14) With The 24 Elders to reign on earth (Rev.5:10) as The 24 Divisions of God's Priesthood set up by David & Zadok  (1Chron.24)

The Marriage of The Lamb to The Wise Virgins = The Pillars who're The Great Multitude (Rev.7:9) stay in Heavenly New Jerusalem till after The 1,000 years. Then God brings New Jerusalem down out of heaven to the new earth.

Of course there's more to it than this, but Paul didn't know it all.