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WHAT IS THE FALLING AWAY

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25 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

What is Paul's THEME for that passage?

What is the theme of all prophecy?  It all has to harmonize.  Don't "isolate and conquer" passages to your liking.

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On 2/14/2018 at 10:44 PM, Sister said:

 2 Thessalonians 2:3   Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

 

 

Revelation 1:12   And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks;

Revelation 1:20   The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.

 

The seven candlesticks represent the seven churches.  The seven churches which existed before until the end of this age represent believers who are put into seven different categories with their varied beliefs and fruits.  Each church was given encouragement and warnings to repent on the things which they lack, or else the "light" of the candlestick would be removed.  What keeps that flame burning is the oil.  Oil is faith.  Faith keeps the light on, so it doesn't go dark and we stumble.

By the time the end of this age nears, if those churches do not repent of the warnings, then that light will grow dim, and eventually be removed.

We were told by Paul that "the Falling away" will come.  So we already know what the end result is.

 

Zechariah 4:1   And the angel that talked with me came again, and waked me, as a man that is wakened out of his sleep,

Zechariah 4:2   And said unto me, What seest thou? And I said, I have looked, and behold a candlestick all of gold, with a bowl upon the top of it, and his seven lamps thereon, and seven pipes to the seven lamps, which are upon the top thereof:

Zechariah 4:3   And two olive trees by it, one upon the right side of the bowl, and the other upon the left side thereof.

Zechariah 4:11   Then answered I, and said unto him, What are these two olive trees upon the right side of the candlestick and upon the left side thereof?

  Zechariah 4:12   And I answered again, and said unto him, What be these two olive branches which through the two golden pipes empty the golden oil out of themselves?

  Zechariah 4:13   And he answered me and said, Knowest thou not what these be? And I said, No, my lord.

  Zechariah 4:14   Then said he, These are the two anointed ones, that stand by the Lord of the whole earth.

 

At the end times, God will send his two witnesses to provide the oil to keep the flame burning for the churches to keep their light from going out.  This oil that they have been annointed with is faith, and this is the fuel they pour into the golden pipes for the candlesticks of the seven churches to keep their flame from going out.  Out of each of these churches, some individuals will repent, and this flame is for them,  to keep the faith going, and endure until the end no matter what. 

As for the rest of the congregations who did not repent, the flame will be removed from them, and this is the falling away.

These days coming will be so evil, that the FP will remove all Christian Churches, and buildings, and organisations, and meeting places etc, but do not fret, because this is God's will, as he is punishing those leaders who have corrupted these churches, and the followers who have been led blindly, will need some of this oil that that the two witnesses will provide.  All will be on his own.  What the two witnesses will bring on the earth, all the plagues,... is for encouragement and faith in the God we serve who is finally bringing justice before our eyes. 

Let this be your fuel, that faith to endure to the end.  We will not have anyone holding our hand but the Lord and that faith he provides.

 

 Jeremiah 10:21   For the pastors are become brutish, and have not sought the LORD: therefore they shall not prosper, and all their flocks shall be scattered.


Jeremiah 12:10   Many pastors have destroyed my vineyard, they have trodden my portion under foot, they have made my pleasant portion a desolate wilderness.

Jeremiah 12:11   They have made it desolate, and being desolate it mourneth unto me; the whole land is made desolate, because no man layeth it to heart.

Jeremiah 12:12   The spoilers are come upon all high places through the wilderness: for the sword of the LORD shall devour from the one end of the land even to the other end of the land: no flesh shall have peace. (none who are in that land....Babylon)
 

 

 

 

 

 

The falling away/apostasy is happening now. We're in the midst of it, and many of us are fulfilling this sign and don't realize it or believe it. 

(The Laodiceans didn't realize their spiritual condition or peril either.)

Jesus said that a wicked and adulterous generation doesn't recognize the signs of the times. The Jews before us didn't recognize the signs of their times--- even though they knew the Scriptures---and neither do many of us. The state of Christianity now parallels the state of Judaism then: The spiritually adulterous Jews didn't need (or want) God to do Judaism their own way; and spiritually adulterous Christians don't need (or want) Him to do Christianity their own way. There's a saying that people who don't learn their history are doomed to repeat it. (We know what happened to the temple of the Jews.)

The falling away is the falling away from the faith (Christianity) of true Christians, who have fallen away by their rebellion: They do not keep the commands of the faith that was once for all delivered to us, as they know they ought to, or do the will of God as He has made it known to them and convicted them---if they even seek to know it in the first place. Just like Jesus said to the churches at Ephesus and Sardis in the Revelation, partial obedience to what we know to do and have been commanded is not acceptable. (Yet many Christians foolishly believe that it is. They're about to find out otherwise.)

There is a teaching which I believe is called 'the perseverance of the saints' which I believe is a Calvinist doctrine (not sure about either of these things), which essentially teaches that all of God's elect will be overcomers/conquerors during the Tribulation, that true Christians cannot fall away from Christ, and that anyone who does this (anyone who does fall away from the Lord, by any means, including by taking the mark of the beast) was never really saved to begin with. 

Once and for all, let it be known that this teaching, and the teaching of Once-Saved-Always-Saved which accompanies it, are false.

Election determines who will be saved. It does not guarantee what an individual will do with his or her free will after coming to be in Christ. Some will choose to remain in Him, others will not. God doesn't force Christians to obey Him and to remain in His love; He gives us the choice to do so. But there are consequences for choosing not to. Just because God has not appointed us to suffer His wrath in the lake of fire, does not mean that we can't choose to go there. The non-elect have no choice in the matter.

Only people who actually have salvation can forfeit it. Falling away from Christ does not mean that one was never saved to begin with, or that one is a goat. A dead sheep is not a goat.

Both sheep and goats have been decided from eternity, and neither can become the other. Goats (children of the devil and vessels of wrath prepared for destruction) will never come to Christ because they are not His sheep (those who are appointed to be saved, vessels of mercy prepared for glory). All the unsaved who are Jesus' lost sheep will come to Him and be saved; but after being saved, they have free will to choose to be faithful to Him or not and whether to keep that gift of eternal life by their own choices.

Not all unsaved people are lost sheep. Some are lost sheep, some are goats; and some are dead sheep.

The falling away of the saints from God's word (and thus, from God Himself, because they are not obeying Him), aka "the rebellion" (please note that that's "REBELLION", not "Mistake"---willful, knowledgeable sin) is not the same as the delusion that will affect the unsaved who have rejected the gospel. The rebellion concerns those who are in Christ and who have the law of Christ and are knowingly and deliberately breaking it; and the delusion concerns unsaved people who have rejected the gospel believing that the antichrist is God. They are two different things. As are professing Christians who are not actually born-again departing from the teachings of the faith, vs people who are truly born-again doing this (which they can do, and have done).

Action point (for true Christians): Obey the Lord in everything you know and make sure you have a good conscience toward Him---that you are doing His will to the best of your knowledge and ability, however His word and His Spirit have convicted you. 1 John 1:9 and James 4:6-10 are for you. Whoever knows the right thing to do and fails to do it, for him it is sin (James 4:17), and God knows our hearts and considers our actions. Don't be foolish or hard-hearted to your own demise.

The time to wash your robe (if necessary) is now: Desolations are decreed by God, for His own people.

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5 hours ago, LightShinesInTheDarkness said:

The falling away/apostasy is happening now. We're in the midst of it, and many of us are fulfilling this sign and don't realize it or believe it. 

(The Laodiceans didn't realize their spiritual condition or peril either.)

Jesus said that a wicked and adulterous generation doesn't recognize the signs of the times. The Jews before us didn't recognize the signs of their times--- even though they knew the Scriptures---and neither do many of us.

Amen.  Even in the first five centuries the ecf did not start in nor stay in the truth, but the apostasty / falling away/ false world church had already gained power.

They did not understand it, nor did the multitudes who went along with it,  or they would not have been part of it (those who opposed it were martyrs. Today too.  And Tomorrow.

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1 hour ago, simplejeff said:

Amen.  Even in the first five centuries the ecf did not start in nor stay in the truth, but the apostasty / falling away/ false world church had already gained power.

They did not understand it, nor did the multitudes who went along with it,  or they would not have been part of it (those who opposed it were martyrs. Today too.  And Tomorrow.

The Roman Catholic Church could never have taken hold and spread as it did if the true Church hadn't already apostatized---like a virus invading the cells of a body whose immunity is compromised due to self-neglect. And unfortunately the Reformation only reformed Catholicism; it didn't restore Christianity to the New Testament standard.

Roman Catholicism took root in the same way so many other heresies have taken root and spread throughout Christianity: A lack of competent, qualified teachers, a lack of discernment on the part of both the teachers and the people, and the overseers and the people deviating from the teachings of the New Testament. 

Jude addresses certain false teachers in the Church who had crept in unnoticed. (Jude 4) Why weren't they noticed? They were feasting without fear right along with the saints. If the saints had been doing what they should have been, they would have had the discernment not to receive such men. But they didn't recognize them. It tells you what the condition of the saints was like, that they would receive such people, even feast with them, and not notice them. And so it is today. A man can preach just about anything he pleases in Jesus' name, and some of His people will say "Amen".

After so many centuries of apostasy, during which time error has replaced Scriptural truth by tradition, the people of God don't even know the faith that was delivered to them, much less do they contend for it. The Christianity of the New Testament and the Christianity of modern reality are the same in name only---like comparing ham to SPAM.

You can't defend doctrine you don't even know yourself. (Evidence: Everywhere.)

Christianity itself has never changed (it's still right there in the New Testament); only Christians' practice of it.

 

 

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21 hours ago, Sister said:

Hi Dennis1209

That was an excellent explanation.  Yes I believe it is happening already, and has been going on for some time and leads up to a complete collapse.

I believe it's not just the obvious things that you pointed out, but false doctrine.  Subtle things, ...like teachings of men taken for scripture, and accepted as the norm.  Indoctrination of error.  Also pride, and arrogance.  Lack of love.  Craftiness.  These will all be the first types to yell out and scream false teacher, or child of the devil if someone else questions their beliefs, even by backing it up with scripture. 

I visited a church once, when I was 18, and attended the sermons for 6 months.  I thought I had met the nicest people, all God fearing and sincere, full of love,  but when I declined the offer to attend their bible studies, because I wanted to find the truth myself, by reading myself, in the comfort of my own home, or on the bus and train, and during lunch hours at work, to privately compare scripture with scripture, and just basically feed on the direct source, then those beautiful people suddenly turned on me with great rage.  They fired me up, and I really started challenging their doctrine, because what they were preaching, was not the same as what I was perceiving from the scriptures. I prayed about it, and read even more, but still I could not connect to their line of thinking. 

I tried a few other churches after this, because I was young, and young people always seem to need people around them, but I found the doctrine was the same. So I thought to myself, is it more important to fellowship with those who have error, and teach error, or to just continue this journey on my own?.  Was I strong enough without someone holding my hand?..or checking in on me all the time?...I chose the latter, and the devil did everything in his power to make me fall.  I did fall for a number of years, but God released me out his hold once again, after I pleaded with him, to pull me out of this mess I had gotten myself into.  He led me straight back to his Word.  No looking for churches, for friends, for acceptance from anyone but him.  That's when he really fed me, and I really understood the difference between good and evil, and the real depths of Satan because I experienced first hand what happens when you remove yourself away from God.  All those years, I craved for God's acceptance.  I thought it could only be a dream to be walking in his commandments, and have the self control to deny the world and and myself.  I thought it could never be achieved to be fully submissive to God, but slowly step by step, he kept revealing things in me that needed changing, and I gave it all I had, and I fell and got up, slipped, went backwards, and forwards, and gradually I "got it".  That understanding of how powerful the devil is, Now I am living that dream, and so content, always aware that the devil never rests day or night, and to be on guard always. 

I am not putting down all the churches, just because my experience was not a good one, and I know there are lovely caring Christians about, but after coming on these forums, I saw wickedness at the highest level.  The most respected Christians acting worse than the dregs of society, full of spite and hatred, yet claiming to be saved. Judgemental, unmerciful, unable to put feelings aside and discuss the very scriptures we hold dear.  Some of the rudest people I have ever come across, worse than the unbelievers.  Yet they are so highly respected and esteemed, and allowed free reign with their tongues, So what is really going on?  Where is equity and fairness, the same type that God has?  We are in the thick of the falling away where love waxes cold.  I did not realise that when I came on to the forums, that I was walking in the devils playground, but I know that now.  Why was I sent here?  Why do I keep coming back?...I think it's to develop self control and to prepare me for what is around the corner, and to keep sharp.  This has been a real eye opener.  This post will probably be banned too.  Just watch.  They will come and attack, because they are sent to disrupt.  It's all politics.  Not what you know, but who you know.  If we get too close to the truth, or correct with scripture, just watch them shut it down.

I am not silly.  I know what the scriptures warn, and I know that the haughty will receive a fiery tribulation, and those that praise this behaviour will join them.   I don't wish that on anyone.  They don't care for their souls, nor for mine or yours.  This is the falling away.  Everyone stay quiet.  Hush, don't make a peep.  Watch us all go down like flies.  Thank the Lord, God is waiting for the perfect timing, and reserved this lot for the end times.  Like a roaring lion, God is going to come out of his hiding place, and let the humble and oppressed know that he has loved them.  He will stand up for us and in Jesus I trust, my redeemer.  Lord come quickly.

 

 

A very heart felt post Sister, thank you for sharing. I agree with much of what you've said.

I would encourage you though not to give up on a friendly Bible believing Gospel preaching church, they're still out there. True believers getting together (brothers and sisters of Christ) is lifting and encouraging each other. I've found my church a little over a year ago now, and none of the negatives you've mentioned are present. It's a wonderful blessing for believers to get together loving one another, and singing hymns and praises to our most gracious heavenly Father and Savior the Lord Jesus Christ. And hearing a true Gospel message from the Pastor. Attending church is a privilege and blessing, and it's my privilege and enjoyment to attend every time the church doors are open.

No, a person doesn't have to attend a church to be saved and follow the tenets of our faith and walk in the image of our Savior. But there is power as a congregation lifting each other up when we're down, encouraging one another, and coming together to worship the Lord and sing hymns and praises to Him. It blesses my heart and soul and gives me more faith and encouragement knowing I'm not the only one being attacked by the devil and the still present temptations of my flesh 

God Bless Sister

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8 hours ago, Sister said:

Thank you. 

 

 

KJV   2 Thess 2:6  And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.

NKJV   2 Thess 2:6        And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time.

acceptable.

 

KJV  2 Thess 2:7    For the mystery of iniquity doth already work:  only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

NKJV   2 Thess 2:7            For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He[d] who now restrains will do so until He[e] is taken out of the way.

 

KJV

For the "mystery of evil" does already work.  (It's been working since the beginning, since the garden of Eden where it started)  Only "he" (God) who now "lets" this "mystery of evil" to exist (world don't know where it comes from, what it is), will let the "mystery of evil" to continue (for the blind) UNTIL "he" (FP) is taken out of the way.

NKJV twists that scripture.  It implies that God who now "restrains the mystery of evil", .will keep on "restraining" it.... say what?  If God is restraining this "mystery of evil" (to the world), then that means he is NOT allowing this "mystery of evil" to exist, or continue, ...which is not what he originally said.  He said he's allowing it, letting it happen, not restraining it.  See the difference?

Let and restrain have two opposite meanings. 

So subtle.

Very crafty.

Let's take a closer look at the word "letteth".

G2722

katechō

1.     to hold back, detain, retain

a.     from going away

b.     to restrain, hinder (the course or progress of)

                                                    i.     that which hinders, Antichrist from making his appearance

                                                   ii.     to check a ship's headway i.e. to hold or head the ship

c.     to hold fast, keep secure, keep firm possession of

2.     to get possession of, take

a.     to possess

 

How is that any different than restrain?  The only difference is how people spoke back then to how we speak today.

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Ok, I can put it like this;

(a)  The master, he is the one who lets the dog go into the pool, and will let him continue doing so until such and such a day, "then" the pool will be clean, and all will know who made it dirty.

(b)  The master, he is the one who restrains the dog from going into the pool, and will continue restraining him until such and such a day, "then the pool will be dirty, and no one will know who made it dirty.

 

To me two different meanings.  One is to allow, and the other is to hold back.  The pool has been getting dirty and no one knows why.

(a) says the dog was always allowed in the pool, but until a certain day he will not be allowed.  On that day everyone will know who made the pool dirty.

(b) says the dog was never allowed in the pool, for he was restrained, held back, but until a certain day he will be allowed, and no one will know who made it dirty.

 

KJV  2 Thess 2:7    For the mystery of iniquity doth already work:  only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

NKJV   2 Thess 2:7          For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He[d] who now restrains will do so until He[e] is taken out of the way.

This verse is speaking about "the mystery of lawlessness".  It's not a mystery to us who know, for God has revealed good and evil to us, and we know who is behind this evil,...but the world who is fooled and in darkness don't know about this mystery, and God has not revealed it to them ...yet....because they refuse to come to him to find out.  On that day when the world is punished, and this wickedness revealed, by the brightness of his Coming,  God will reveal to them, the world, who made their waters dirty.  What they have been drinking has been fowled, has made them sick, and now they must pay the price.  Even, the Son of Perdition will be revealed, how he played his part, and who he really served.  Until all this happens, it will continue, this mystery of evil.

Edited by Sister
typo

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6 hours ago, Dennis1209 said:

A very heart felt post Sister, thank you for sharing. I agree with much of what you've said.

I would encourage you though not to give up on a friendly Bible believing Gospel preaching church, they're still out there. True believers getting together (brothers and sisters of Christ) is lifting and encouraging each other. I've found my church a little over a year ago now, and none of the negatives you've mentioned are present. It's a wonderful blessing for believers to get together loving one another, and singing hymns and praises to our most gracious heavenly Father and Savior the Lord Jesus Christ. And hearing a true Gospel message from the Pastor. Attending church is a privilege and blessing, and it's my privilege and enjoyment to attend every time the church doors are open.

No, a person doesn't have to attend a church to be saved and follow the tenets of our faith and walk in the image of our Savior. But there is power as a congregation lifting each other up when we're down, encouraging one another, and coming together to worship the Lord and sing hymns and praises to Him. It blesses my heart and soul and gives me more faith and encouragement knowing I'm not the only one being attacked by the devil and the still present temptations of my flesh 

God Bless Sister

Thank you Dennis1209.  My heart yearns for this, to be with a people who love the Lord, and have the same mind, same spirit, same doctrine, same faith, but it's too late to find this in a building.  In our temples,.... the heart, if it is clean, we are together dwelling in Zion and not alone.  I long for the day when we will finally meet all our brothers and sisters and serve in unity worshiping the Lord together as one.  That day will come soon, and I appreciate your encouragement.  You obviously have found your nest.  Around here it is not the same.  All those things you all do, I do alone.  I have only the Word of God to encourage me, to keep that light burning, and I try to encourage all I know on the outside to including my immediate family, friends and acquaintances to go to that same light.  I do have an uncle who you could say is my mentor,...he is quite old now and we meet once a week.  All the serious studying and encouragement goes on there, at his house. It's just us.  I am at peace brother.

God bless.

 

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On 2/15/2018 at 7:38 PM, Sister said:

I am not putting down all the churches, just because my experience was not a good one, and I know there are lovely caring Christians about, but after coming on these forums, I saw wickedness at the highest level. 

What do you mean "at the highest level" ?  - on the forums, or in the box churches ? 

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19 hours ago, Davida said:

Paul was not speaking of Archangel Michael in Thessalonians,  those verses were speaking of the presence of the Holy Spirit in Church which is removed when the Church is raptured, the bride will be taken away & will not see the man of sin.  In Daniel the verse speaks of Archangel Michael because he is the Guardian of Israel & that has to do with the time of Jacob's trouble.  The falling away we are seeing happening now. 

 

The Tribulation is the same time period described in Daniel's seven years (which God shortened for the sake of the elect to approximately 3 1/2), and all Christians will go through it. The pre-tribulation rapture is a myth, a fact which will become evident when it doesn't happen (which it will not). No amount of incorrectly interpreted Scripture is going to make something that isn't going to happen happen.

(I don't believe that believing in a pre-trib rapture is a certain death sentence---that Christians who are mistaken about this are all going to take the mark of the beast. Some of them will, but some of them will probably just realize that they were wrong and ask the Lord to help them. What will determine whether a Christian is an overcomer during that time or not will be their heart towards the Lord. Christians who enter the Trib with a rebellious, impenitent spirit are setting themselves up to fall, as they will not have God's support. Christians who enter the Trib with a good conscience toward God, or who repent of their rebellion and ask God for mercy when they realize they're not going to be raptured, will receive God's mercy and have His support to be victorious.)

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