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Dennis1209

Just How Close is the RAPTURE?

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6 minutes ago, n2thelight said:

So the dead in Christ whom Paul says can't precede the living,are the tribulation saints?

No, Paul said that the living cannot precede those who died Christ.  they are raised first and we which are alive and remain will be taken up after them.

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And first really don't mean first?

It's like when the Bible refers to Jesus as "Firstborn of creation"  even though Jesus is God and preexisted creation.  Jesus, as God was never born, but as God, is the "Firstborn of creation."    How is Jesus the first born if Jesus was never actually born?   It simply means "chief" or "the head of."   "Firstborn" refers to Jesus' preeminence.   Sometimes terms as they are/were used in that part of the world don't mean the same as when we use them in our modern expressions.  Ancient near eastern terminology doesn't always treat terminology with the precision we demand.

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I mean seriously,you can't see how this theory butchers the Word to make it fit?

Not butchering anything at all.  

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19 minutes ago, shiloh357 said:

No, Paul said that the living cannot precede those who died Christ.  they are raised first and we which are alive and remain will be taken up after them.

My slip,so is the above the rapture?

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1 hour ago, n2thelight said:

My slip,so is the above the rapture?

Yes.

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, Daniel 11:36 said:

"How many resurrections are there,and when is the last day?"

 

There are 3 resurrections: the pre-tribulation church, the two witnesses during the coming tribulation period, and the tribulation saints who will die during the tribulation period

The "last day" is the term used for the Lord's very next intervention and includes the 70th week decreed for Israel  

I see it was answered above.

Edited by Brother Duke

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4 hours ago, shiloh357 said:

You have the resurrection that occurs at the Rapture, which is all of the saints who died in Christ and also includes the OT saints (I Thess. 4: 13-18; I Cor. 15: 50-53)   Then you have the first resurrection that occurs at the end of the Tribulation, which is the resurrection of the Tribulation Saints who got saved and died during the Tribulation period.   There is also the Second resurrection at the of the millennium which is all of the unrighteous dead who will stand before the Great White Throne

Paul spells it out pretty clearly:

  • For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive.  But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, after that those who are Christ’s at His coming, then the end, when He hands over the kingdom to the God and Father, when He has abolished all rule and all authority and power.  1 Corinthians 15:22-24

No need to complicate things.

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Just now, Last Daze said:

Paul spells it out pretty clearly:

  • For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive.  But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, after that those who are Christ’s at His coming, then the end, when He hands over the kingdom to the God and Father, when He has abolished all rule and all authority and power.  1 Corinthians 15:22-24

No need to complicate things.

Nothing I said is complicated.

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Just now, shiloh357 said:

Nothing I said is complicated.

I didn't say it was complicated, I said it complicated things.  When you make stuff up, it complicates the truth.  I posted scripture.  You posted conjecture.  It's not that complicated.

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7 minutes ago, Last Daze said:

I didn't say it was complicated, I said it complicated things.  When you make stuff up, it complicates the truth.  I posted scripture.  You posted conjecture.  It's not that complicated.

I didn't make anything up or post conjecture.  I posted the order of the resurrections as they are given to us in Scripture.   

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43 minutes ago, shiloh357 said:

I didn't make anything up or post conjecture.  I posted the order of the resurrections as they are given to us in Scripture.   

No you didn't, the order given in the Bible is the first resurrection at the second coming, then the resurrection after the 1000 year reign. Rev. 20 

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1 minute ago, ENOCH2010 said:

No you didn't, the order given in the Bible is the first resurrection at the second coming, then the resurrection after the 1000 year reign. Rev. 20 

Right, which is no different than saying that the first resurrection is at the end of the Tribulation... That's when Jesus returns.

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  • Similar Content

    • By Steve Conley
      Greetings in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ,
      Can someone please help me? Can you tell me if all these verses refer to the same event?
      Isa 2:12  For the day of the LORD of hosts shall be upon every one that is proud and lofty, and upon every one that is lifted up; and he shall be brought low:
      Isa 2:13  And upon all the cedars of Lebanon, that are high and lifted up, and upon all the oaks of Bashan,
      Isa 2:14  And upon all the high mountains, and upon all the hills that are lifted up,
      Isa 2:15  And upon every high tower, and upon every fenced wall,
      Isa 2:16  And upon all the ships of Tarshish, and upon all pleasant pictures.
      Isa 2:17  And the loftiness of man shall be bowed down, and the haughtiness of men shall be made low: and the LORD alone shall be exalted in that day.
      Isa 2:18  And the idols he shall utterly abolish.
      Isa 2:19  And they shall go into the holes of the rocks, and into the caves of the earth, for fear of the LORD, and for the glory of his majesty, when he ariseth to shake terribly the earth.
      Isa 2:20  In that day a man shall cast his idols of silver, and his idols of gold, which they made each one for himself to worship, to the moles and to the bats;
      Isa 2:21  To go into the clefts of the rocks, and into the tops of the ragged rocks, for fear of the LORD, and for the glory of his majesty, when he ariseth to shake terribly the earth.
      Isa 13:6  Howl ye; for the day of the LORD is at hand; it shall come as a destruction from the Almighty.
      Isa 13:7  Therefore shall all hands be faint, and every man's heart shall melt:
      Isa 13:8  And they shall be afraid: pangs and sorrows shall take hold of them; they shall be in pain as a woman that travaileth: they shall be amazed one at another; their faces shall be as flames.
      Isa 13:9  Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.
      Isa 13:10  For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine.
      Isa 13:11  And I will punish the world for their evil, and the wicked for their iniquity; and I will cause the arrogancy of the proud to cease, and will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible.
      Joe 2:31  The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come.
      Rev 6:12  And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
      Rev 6:13  And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
      Rev 6:14  And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
      Rev 6:15  And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
      Rev 6:16  And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
      Rev 6:17  For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?
      Luk 21:25  And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
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    • Guest Omegaman
      By Guest Omegaman
      The debate continues, and I suppose it will until/if the church finds itself recognizing that the antichrist/man of sin/beast/son of perdition/abomination that cuases desolation/etc. has been revealed and recognized.
       
      So, here is what I am asking, this is the question that this thread is about:
       
      Where in the bible is it stated, or which combination of verses do you believe imply (evidentially, not wishfully) that there is either:
       
      a secret coming of Jesus for the church before the great tribulation an invisible coming of Jesus for the church a two part second advent a scriptural distinction of Jesus coming for His church, versus His coming with His church From my perspective, in case it is not obvious, the only thing invisible about Jesus coming, is that it is that the pre-trib rapture is invisible in the sense that it is no where to be found in scripture.
       
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      To those who want to reply in this thread:
      Please stick to the premise of it, scriptural evidence for a coming of Jesus to catch up His church to be with Him prior to the great tribulation.
       
      I know that I am asking a lot of people to stay on topic. I understand that people are passionate about their eschatological beliefs. However, please exercise some self control and not start in with a statement of or defense of your own, other than pre-trib persuasion.
       
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      Opposing viewpoints are o.k., but limit those to just enough to present an answer to any posts claiming to present scriptural evidence of a pre-trib rapture, without making it about what you believe instead.
       
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      Stating that "the rapture is Jesus coming for His church before the trib" is a definition of your belief, and is not scriptural evidence, such a statement is just an opinion, and is evidence that you believe, not for your belief. Stating things like "the church is not mentioned after verse such and such in Revelation", is also not evidence, it is merely an argument from silence. Stating that "the church is not destined to suffer God's wrath" is also not evidence, unless you can prove that the whole to the great tribulation is in fact the wrath of God, and that if the church is present for that, that she cannot and will not be protected from God's wrath during the great tribulation Hopefully, examples like those above, will convey the idea of what I am seeking, and that you can understand the nature of evidence as opposed to statements of faith in your doctrine. The idea here, is to present some quality reasons to believe in the pre-trib rapture. So here you have an opportunity. Please, give it a shot if you think that you have scriptural evidence.
       
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    • Guest
      By Guest
      In the topic of eschatology, few things are debated with more passion than the timing of the rapture with respect to the great tribulation. In online forums there are many opinions expressed. Some of them in my opinion are so far out there that few people if any take them very seriously.
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