pulling the plug on a loved one

[ayin jade]

9 hours ago, turtletwo said:

I'm being pressured to pull the plug on my mother who had cardiac arrest on Friday. The hospital right from the start laid guilt trips on me and aren't backing off. They keep saying that the machines are doing all of her bodily functions and what kind of future is that for her. But I gave her my word that I'd keep her alive. I am torn between this promise to her and not wanting to snuff out any hope of recovery VS the immediate suffering of this unnatural life of machines. Any thoughts on this and how God Himself may view it? Also, isn't since only Friday too soon to just give up? 

If you know someone who is a doctor, or someone in your church is a doctor, have that person look over her medical chart. If your mother is brain dead, that is, no function remaining in her brain, then she is gone and it is just machines doing the work in her body. It could be possible that she is in a vegetative state but one that the hospital feels isnt worth keeping alive. In that case, do what you think is best and not what they are pressuring you to do. This is why it would be good to have someone who isnt part of the hospital to evaluate her and tell you their view of what is going on. Or try and get the hospital to explain it in detail to you. Keep in mind what the insurance is willing to pay for. If she is brain dead and you want to keep her on the machines, the insurance will not pay for it and it will get expensive.

There is also someone called a patient advocate (or patient ombudsman) in the hospital whose job it is to be on the side of the patient (or you in this case) and can serve as a liason between the doctor and you. They can help you see how you can do things as you think it should be done. Contact that person.

[Guest]

If you spoke specifically about end of life and her desire to be keep alive on machines, then you should keep your promise. If you didn't speak specifically about such an event, then I would consider what benefit her organs would provide to others. She would live on that way. If she is brain dead, then she is not suffering, but she is not really alive either. JMHO.

[ayin jade]

2 hours ago, Butero said:

Even if the quality of life stinks, this woman said she wants to be kept alive that way.  Her son said he would do it for her.  To turn around and pull the plug is to break a promise.  Ayin Jade did bring up the question of whether or not she is brain dead, but even if they say she is, I am not convinced they always tell the truth.  I don't believe Terri Schaivo was brain dead, no matter how much the doctors claim that was the case.  Her parents didn't believe she was brain dead, as she responded to things they said.  If you make a promise, especially to your own Mother about something that serious, you should keep it.  She took care of you when you were too little to make your own decisions.  The least a son or daughter can do is take care of their Mother when she can't take care of herself.  

Just an fyi, terri schiavo was in a persistant vegetative state, brain damaged but not brain dead. Brain dead has zero activity in the brain. Ms schiavo had some brain activity. Zero activity is a flatlined eeg. 

[LadyKay]

13 hours ago, turtletwo said:

I'm being pressured to pull the plug on my mother who had cardiac arrest on Friday. The hospital right from the start laid guilt trips on me and aren't backing off. They keep saying that the machines are doing all of her bodily functions and what kind of future is that for her. But I gave her my word that I'd keep her alive. I am torn between this promise to her and not wanting to snuff out any hope of recovery VS the immediate suffering of this unnatural life of machines. Any thoughts on this and how God Himself may view it? Also, isn't since only Friday too soon to just give up? 

Hello dear. I am very sorry to hear about  your mother. I can not and will not tell you want to do. As I feel this is a very private family matter. My only advice is that you find some alone time and seek God out in prayer over this matter. It also may help if you have a pastor you could speak too. Sometimes hospitals will have a pastor you can speak with.  Again I am very sorry. 

[ayin jade]

2 hours ago, Rick_Parker said:

If you spoke specifically about end of life and her desire to be keep alive on machines, then you should keep your promise. If you didn't speak specifically about such an event, then I would consider what benefit her organs would provide to others. She would live on that way. If she is brain dead, then she is not suffering, but she is not really alive either. JMHO.

Hmm and that is something to consider. Are the doctors pressuring you for organ donation of your mothers organs? If so, thats another reason they could be wanting you to pull the plug. While organ donation is a good thing, its also not a reason to pressure anyone to pull the plug on a loved one. 

[angels4u]

16 hours ago, turtletwo said:

I'm being pressured to pull the plug on my mother who had cardiac arrest on Friday. The hospital right from the start laid guilt trips on me and aren't backing off. They keep saying that the machines are doing all of her bodily functions and what kind of future is that for her. But I gave her my word that I'd keep her alive. I am torn between this promise to her and not wanting to snuff out any hope of recovery VS the immediate suffering of this unnatural life of machines. Any thoughts on this and how God Himself may view it? Also, isn't since only Friday too soon to just give up? 

Praying for you Turtle, remember God is with you in this difficult situation,just trust Him that He will let you know in His time what,s the right thing for your Mom,does she know Jesus Turtle? I,m so sorry to hear of you r trouble and sadness...

 

Praying for you ,Angels ,big hug ❤❤

[Guest Butero]

5 hours ago, ayin jade said:

Just an fyi, terri schiavo was in a persistant vegetative state, brain damaged but not brain dead. Brain dead has zero activity in the brain. Ms schiavo had some brain activity. Zero activity is a flatlined eeg. 

Thank you for that clarification.  Back at the time, those who were on the side of the husband kept insisting she was brain dead.  I guess it was just spin.  I shouldn't be surprised.  

[Neighbor]

16 hours ago, Butero said:

...  Nothing you could tell me about your past experiences would matter anyway. ...

Yes I have been sure of that already.

May God be very kind  to you and never put you in the position where you have to be the one bedside for three and four days and nights at a time as advocate for the patient in one of these sad and serious events, especially when the exact pre instructions of the patient seem to go out the window and the fight is on.

For others please let me share: Being the advocate and responsible party is a nightmare that many do have to go through. The battle to get information, and care, and have instructions followed, and to have to learn all the legalese, and one's own standing  in the face of precedent, makes the whole process absolute body mind and soul wearying nightmare. Please be in prayer for all that do have to have the energy to go through it for their family members protection.

 I do pray for all that have gone through it, are in it now,  and are going to have to face it in the future.

 

[Guest Butero]

1 hour ago, Neighbor said:

Yes I have been sure of that already.

May God be very kind  to you and never put you in the position where you have to be the one bedside for three and four days and nights at a time as advocate for the patient in one of these sad and serious events, especially when the exact pre instructions of the patient seem to go out the window and the fight is on.

For others please let me share: Being the advocate and responsible party is a nightmare that many do have to go through. The battle to get information, and care, and have instructions followed, and to have to learn all the legalese, and one's own standing  in the face of precedent, makes the whole process absolute body mind and soul wearying nightmare. Please be in prayer for all that do have to have the energy to go through it for their family members protection.

 I do pray for all that have gone through it, are in it now,  and are going to have to face it in the future.

 

Based on what I am reading here today, it is best to have a living will written up expressing your exact feelings about this kind of thing.  Don't leave it in the hands of family members, even if you think you can trust them to carry out your will, because as you can see, they won't always follow through.  If you want to remain hooked up to a machine, regardless of your physical conditions or chance of recovery, spell it out in a legal document.  I sure am learning a lot about the value of this today.  

If the family member doesn't spell out what they want, I can understand how this would be a difficult decision to make.  If they do spell it out, their wishes should be followed.  I have told members of my family if they are ever in this kind of place, and they leave me no instructions for how to handle it, I will leave them on life support till they die a natural death.  If they don't want that, spell it out.  I know for a fact my wife doesn't want to be on life support if she is hopeless for a prolonged period of time, but she doesn't mind if there is a reasonable chance of recovery.  I would respect her wishes.  From talking to my Mother, I feel she would prefer to be left on life support, so that is what I would do.  Based on things my Father has said, I don't think he would want to be on life support indefinitely, but wouldn't mind if there was a chance for recovery, so that is what I would do.  I would respect the wishes of the people involved.  

How do pre-instructions of the patient go out the window?  I can see the hospital people trying to get someone to pull the plug, but if they do that against the will of the guardian, that is not your fault.  You can only do so much, but I would do everything in my power to make the decision I thought the patient would want, with no regard for how this would stress me out.  I don't mind being in that spot.  I do as far as not wanting to lose a loved one, but the problem in that case is grief.  As far as making decisions, it is black and white to me.  It is whatever the person wants if they let me know, and if they don't, what I feel they want based on things they told me.  My feelings would be kept out of the equation.  My family members can trust me to respect their wishes, so I am willing to be in that spot, but I am sure everyone else's family members thought they could trust loved ones to carry out what they wanted too, and we see that is not necessarily the case.  Get a legal document while you can.  

[Guest Butero]

58 minutes ago, Davida said:

It would seem that the husband wanted her out of the way, I think he had a girlfriend. It was the parents that visited her daily & cared for her, they pleaded that she be given into their care. It was a horrendous case imo. 

I remember it well.  The husband had won this huge lawsuit from the hospital claiming they caused her condition.  He told the court he wanted the money to keep her alive.  After getting the money, he used it to pay for lawyers to have her feeding tube removed.  She wasn't even on a respirator.  She just needed someone to help feed her.  He wouldn't even allow them to see if she could eat on her own.  He had been shacked up with a woman and had a family with her while all this was taking place.  It was horrible.  I wrote letters to politicians trying to get someone to intervene.  The judge in the case had taken campaign contributions from the husband, Michael Schiavo.