Worthy has changed a lot in ten years ...

[warrior12]

2 minutes ago, Butero said:

How in the world does any thinking person believe in a flat earth?  That is beyond me, but I don't get mad at someone for not accepting the fact the earth is round.  It is hardly worth making a federal case out of, but I know what you mean about their position.  They think that you must believe in a flat earth to be Biblical.  

Setember 9-11 is considered a CTS, but yet there are 2000 professional engineers denouncing or rejecting the official government report.  You have to let people have a say, and jump in where one feel they can and stay out when you think it is absurd or leave a comment that is not deeming and life goes on.  My take anyway. 

[enoob57]

And to frame it as I said... If anyone relies upon their works to save them they will be eternally damed

Titus 3:5

5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
KJV

Faith alone in Christ alone by grace alone period... there is nothing here God is keeping so how can you expect the manipulation of such things to be of eternal weight...

[patrick jane]

1 hour ago, Butero said:

Are they any different than discussions on politics, sports, movies, books, pets, music, vacations, food, just about anything you can name that doesn't deal directly with the message of the gospel?  There are a lot of people that would never join a Christian message board that come here because of many of those things we can label a distraction.  My feeling is that if someone doesn't like a particular topic or area, don't waste your time there.  It is not like if you remove the Conspiracy section people that spent their time discussing big foot will move over to discussions on Biblical doctrine.  It doesn't work that way.  

Right now, we have one of the silliest conspiracy theories of all time, a flat earth, but they aren't hurting anything floating that nonsense around.  Those who believe it believe it and the rest of us just chuckle over it.  

LOl, you can float over to me in heaven and tell me I was right about the Biblical flat earth.  

[Aimes]

21 hours ago, ayin jade said:

There is one way it has changed that I am quite sad about. Years ago, when my brother in law was murdered, I posted a prayer request and felt the forums and chatroom come together in support. Ive had a huge prayer need, a family crisis, for the past 4 months and I have not posted a prayer request on the forums. Why? Because I didnt think folks would pray in support of my need but instead rejoice in my misfortune. Worthy has lost a lot of the sense of community and family that it used to be.

(((Jadey))) I pray for you each and every day. (yes, I hugged you openly in forumland) lol 

[Guest Butero]

1 hour ago, Davida said:

Sorry, I but instead of saying you disagree with this person's opinion you had to accuse them of being cult-like & grouped together those that believe in OSAS is a salvation issue that they are acting like a "cult" and that is very sad to me. You chose to label someone being a cult-like and that is not what a Cult is. In my view, it's like pick a nasty label and apply it to a person or group- and it is a smear against Enoob and anyone who believes in OSAS if they think it's a salvation issue & Lord forbid they mention that because they will be labeled a cult thanks to you. So who is attempting to shut down free speech here?   You have posted some gossip / a rumor that there is a Coup a foot to squelch free speech without giving any evidence of this & this is just another negative label to apply. You also said that the whole thread was an attack on worthy but, I don't think that was the motivation of the thread or the tone of majority of the posts. People were speaking clearly of Biblically false teachings and you have implied now, that they meant other denominational beliefs, that there is a Coup planned and so you've created your very own Conspiracy theory about others on this forum. I see the spring this has come from & do not want to drink from it so...adios. 

Here is the bottom line.  George has come in here personally to check this thread out.  If he has any problems with anything I said or anyone else said, he has the ability to remove those comments.  There is no difference in someone calling a group a cult because they say salvation requires faith plus water baptism in the name of Jesus plus speaking in tongues, than to say salvation requires faith plus absolutely nothing.  In both instances, the individuals are saying you must believe in a specific way to be saved.  I have heard such things called cult like as long as I have been here.  

I believe everything I said is true about the intent of many in this thread, and as such, I have no intention of taking it back.  As I said, this has been looked into by George himself, including my use of the words cult like.  He also saw my comments about an attempted coup.  People are free to agree or disagree with what I said.    

[Guest Butero]

1 hour ago, enoob57 said:

And to frame it as I said... If anyone relies upon their works to save them they will be eternally damed

Titus 3:5

5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
KJV

Faith alone in Christ alone by grace alone period... there is nothing here God is keeping so how can you expect the manipulation of such things to be of eternal weight...

Nobody has stated that anyone can be saved by their works.  Everyone was born into this world with the stain of Adam's sins, which requires the blood of Jesus to wash them clean.  Where we differ is that you claim that a Christian can go out and commit willful sins and remain saved without confessing said sins.  The issue isn't how we got saved, but what is required to remain saved.  Another way to look at it is whether or not the person was really saved to begin with.  Based on your doctrine, James, the brother of Jesus went to hell for suggesting that faith without works is dead.  In your belief system, a person could get saved and completely go back into sin and live worse than Hugh Hefner and remain saved.  You either must say that is true or claim that if they did that, they were never really saved, which defeats the idea of unconditional eternal security because you are then saying their lifestyle disqualified them.  

I will say this again.  If you are claiming that anyone that doesn't agree with your view of unconditional eternal security is not saved, I am saying you are no different than the churches that say you must believe as they do to be saved and anyone outside their belief system is lost.  You are really preaching a works based salvation of a specific kind of belief and action. 

What I really find amusing about this is how it makes no sense for the following reason.  Take me for instance.  I got saved listening to what I believe was a Baptist preacher speaking on the subject of the rapture.  I believed him and prayed the sinner's prayer.  As such, according to you, nothing I can do should ever disqualify me from being saved.  That would have to include joining a church that doesn't believe in unconditional eternal security and rejecting OSAS.  To suggest otherwise is to reject people are eternally secure.  Your unpardonable sin is rejecting OSAS after getting saved.  

[hmbld]

Once saved always saved. If you want to go back to living in sin, you definitely need to be saved yet. By faith. 

[patrick jane]

1 minute ago, hmbld said:

Once saved always saved. If you want to go back to living in sin, you definitely need to be saved yet. By faith. 

Romans 6:14-23 KJV - And there are many many other scriptures like these -

 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

¹⁵ What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

¹⁶ Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

¹⁷ But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.

¹⁸ Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

¹⁹ I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.

²⁰ For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.

²¹ What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death.

²² But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.

²³ For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

[Guest Butero]

12 minutes ago, hmbld said:

Once saved always saved. If you want to go back to living in sin, you definitely need to be saved yet. By faith. 

I have known many people that claim to be eternally secure in Christ because of growing up in a church that teaches OSAS, that can never be won to the Lord, barring divine intervention that is.  They are saved and they know it, yet they fornicate, party and do drugs.  We can sit around and question if they were ever saved, but here is the problem.  If we say they were never saved based on their sinful lifestyle, we are claiming that anyone that goes back into sin was never really saved, thus doing away with eternal security.  You have just another works based doctrine.  If we say they are saved because of their sinner's prayer, it contradicts 1 John chapter 3 that says a truly born again Christian cannot continue to live in sin.  

We also have another matter I just brought up.  If you must have the perfect view of saved by faith with absolutely no works, that in itself is a requirement being put on people to be saved, beyond faith in Jesus being the Christ, the Son of the Living God.  I believe all of that, and that Christ came in the flesh, but if I don't have my doctrine perfect according to the beliefs of the OSAS crowd, and even think for a moment I could do anything to lose my salvation, I was never saved.  That is why the true Calvinists call OSAS a work's based salvation.  It is not based 100 percent on God's sovereign will, but it is based on our personal beliefs.  Also, you can lose your salvation under this crazy doctrine by failing to remain in a pure belief.  You get saved at an alter like any good Baptist would, but you fall from grace if you wind up deciding that you also must have good works.  This makes null and void unconditional eternal security, because it places a condition on you, perfect doctrinal purity.  It is so convoluted, I don't know how anyone can take it serious.  

[Guest Butero]

Just now, Abby-Joy said:

Salvation is by grace through faith... good works are the result (fruits, "proof") of our faith, a natural product of a grateful love-filled heart.  Salvation follows faith, and works follow faith.  This all fits nicely together! 

I do agree with that.  Where you run into problems is when the OSAS crowd says you have unconditional security, and you have a person that got saved in that belief that lives in open sin.  To be true to your beliefs, you can't say that person couldn't have been saved.  You have made it about works.  To be pure in your doctrine, the guy that got saved at the age of 12, and wound up in a homosexual lifestyle as an adult would have to be eternally secure, just like the people I know that got saved at a young age in a Baptist Church and have done drugs and lived in open sin as adults.  If you say otherwise, you are really basing their salvation on their works.  

Still, I do agree with you.  We are saved by faith in Christ, and the true born again Christian will have good works following, and will not die in their sins.  The old man of sin died and the new born again Christian no longer has that sin nature keeping them in bondage.  Now they are free to serve Christ.  

I believe there are Christians who believe in OSAS and who reject OSAS.  You are saved through faith in Christ, not faith in a pure doctrine.  If you are saved because you have faith in a pure doctrine, then your salvation isn't based on faith in Christ at all, but on faith in a doctrinal teaching.  That is what is required to save you and keep you saved.