The Bible Jesus Read

[Neighbor]

"Obviously the Old testament was the Bible Jesus read". And so borrowingly heavily from the work of others, namely Dr. Thomas McCall and Zola Levitt, I'd like to open for conversation a discussion of the importance of the Old Testament ( Especially knowledge of it as foundation for understanding Jesus. Plus  the potential advantage for the Jew of education in His faith in God, as he builds upon that  and comes to see Jesus is his messaiah. 

For the Gentile, ( Greek ), or person without education in Judaism,  it is often said to start with the New Testament gospel of John in order to learn of Christ Jesus. Okay, "but why?" is my question. Is there not time to share of the Bible that our Messaiah taught, quoted, lived by, and by whom it's many prophesies have already been fulfilled in Him with yet more to come?

Seems to me the Jew has many advantages over me. I will never really catch up in knowing and appreciating the Bible that Jesus read and taught from to  Jews, for I will never be able to go backwards for a such heritage.  I wonder is there a better opening for the Gentile than  to be told of John's gospel?  Without the Old testament John's gospel comes to today's "Gentile" out of thin air, there is no foundation nor an anchor.

Seems unfortunate to me that some if not much of what is called Christian  or Christianity today  passes off the Old Testament as a bunch of children's stories and calls them allegory, yet the founder of Christianity  revered every word, every jot an title of the Old Testament. He quoted only it within His lessons.

With that I ask; in tracts on Christianity  and when personally presenting the gospel of Jesus how is the Old Testament treated? Is it even mentioned? Should it be?

In how simple a manner might a discussion introducing  Christianity  explain it's foundation the Old Testament? And I guess the question need also be asked is the Old testament the foundation? I declare that it is, but I do not know if that is a universal given or not.

Anyone have interest in the subject(s)?

 

[frienduff thaylorde]

I am led to get them in the gosples and to learn JESUS before some pastor explains both Christ and his pattern away .

Get them into the gosples and all the letters the apostels wrote .    cause many men in most pulpits have taught a way around JESUS and the apostels pattern.

Scary stuff I know .   but we got to get them to LEARN JESUS and not mens contrary traditions .   we need to get them to learn the pattern and traditions the APOSTELS SET .

And yowm , I do think Gensis is a good place to also work in their .       JUST PRAISE THE LORD PEOPLES ,    sound the songs of JOY and PRAISE for all to hear

and get them absorbed in the bible .      Now how bout we leap up and praise the LORD peoples .  

[Jayne]

How VITAL the Old Testament is.  My father drilled that into my heart and mind when I was young and I have never forgotten it.  

When one is witnessing to a non-believer or one who has never heard, yes, the emphasis is on the gospel:  Jesus Christ and him crucified.  The death, burial, and resurrection.  Today that is the beginning once sin is understood.

And yet, the Old Testament can shed so much light onto the gospel and it should be read and studied by New Testament Christians.

My weekly Bible study group is going through the entire Bible, verse by verse.  You'd be shocked at how many times we have to flip to the New Testament to view the words of Christ, Paul, Peter, and more and see how these Old Testament accounts are part of those accounts as well.  We started in Genesis and are now in 2 Samuel, but we've also been in almost every book of the New Testament.

"All scripture is".....well, you know that verse.

 

[4LdKHVCzRDj2]

1 hour ago, frienduff thaylorde said:

cause many men in most pulpits have taught a way around JESUS and the apostels pattern.

This is what we have been seeing, people opening churches for money and as a result they just talk what attracts people (flesh).

"Shepherd the flock of God which is among you, serving as overseers,
    not by compulsion but willingly, not for dishonest gain but eagerly;" - 1 Peter 5:2

 

They are just leading the flock to the slaughter, this is very serious. They are playing with fire, and eternal fire.

"Whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to sin,
    it would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck, and he were drowned in the depth of the sea." - Matthew 18:6

[FresnoJoe]

1 hour ago, Neighbor said:

"Obviously the Old testament was the Bible Jesus read". And so borrowingly heavily from the work of others, namely Dr. Thomas McCall and Zola Levitt, I'd like to open for conversation a discussion of the importance of the Old Testament ( Especially knowledge of it as foundation for understanding Jesus. Plus  the potential advantage for the Jew of education in His faith in God, as he builds upon that  and comes to see Jesus is his messaiah. 

For the Gentile, ( Greek ), or person without education in Judaism,  it is often said to start with the New Testament gospel of John in order to learn of Christ Jesus. Okay, "but why?" is my question. Is there not time to share of the Bible that our Messaiah taught, quoted, lived by, and by whom it's many prophesies have already been fulfilled in Him with yet more to come?

Seems to me the Jew has many advantages over me. I will never really catch up in knowing and appreciating the Bible that Jesus read and taught from to  Jews, for I will never be able to go backwards for a such heritage.  I wonder is there a better opening for the Gentile than  to be told of John's gospel?  Without the Old testament John's gospel comes to today's "Gentile" out of thin air, there is no foundation nor an anchor.

Seems unfortunate to me that some if not much of what is called Christian  or Christianity today  passes off the Old Testament as a bunch of children's stories and calls them allegory, yet the founder of Christianity  revered every word, every jot an title of the Old Testament. He quoted only it within His lessons.

With that I ask; in tracts on Christianity  and when personally presenting the gospel of Jesus how is the Old Testament treated? Is it even mentioned? Should it be?

In how simple a manner might a discussion introducing  Christianity  explain it's foundation the Old Testament? And I guess the question need also be asked is the Old testament the foundation? I declare that it is, but I do not know if that is a universal given or not.

Anyone have interest in the subject(s)?

 

Yes~!

Thy word is true from the beginning: and every one of thy righteous judgments endureth for ever. Psalms 119:160

Yes Indeed~!

Thy word have I hid in mine heart, that I might not sin against thee. Psalms 119:11

Love, Your Brother Joe

[Heleadethme]

2 hours ago, Neighbor said:

"Obviously the Old testament was the Bible Jesus read". And so borrowingly heavily from the work of others, namely Dr. Thomas McCall and Zola Levitt, I'd like to open for conversation a discussion of the importance of the Old Testament ( Especially knowledge of it as foundation for understanding Jesus. Plus  the potential advantage for the Jew of education in His faith in God, as he builds upon that  and comes to see Jesus is his messaiah. 

For the Gentile, ( Greek ), or person without education in Judaism,  it is often said to start with the New Testament gospel of John in order to learn of Christ Jesus. Okay, "but why?" is my question. Is there not time to share of the Bible that our Messaiah taught, quoted, lived by, and by whom it's many prophesies have already been fulfilled in Him with yet more to come?

Seems to me the Jew has many advantages over me. I will never really catch up in knowing and appreciating the Bible that Jesus read and taught from to  Jews, for I will never be able to go backwards for a such heritage.  I wonder is there a better opening for the Gentile than  to be told of John's gospel?  Without the Old testament John's gospel comes to today's "Gentile" out of thin air, there is no foundation nor an anchor.

Seems unfortunate to me that some if not much of what is called Christian  or Christianity today  passes off the Old Testament as a bunch of children's stories and calls them allegory, yet the founder of Christianity  revered every word, every jot an title of the Old Testament. He quoted only it within His lessons.

With that I ask; in tracts on Christianity  and when personally presenting the gospel of Jesus how is the Old Testament treated? Is it even mentioned? Should it be?

In how simple a manner might a discussion introducing  Christianity  explain it's foundation the Old Testament? And I guess the question need also be asked is the Old testament the foundation? I declare that it is, but I do not know if that is a universal given or not.

Anyone have interest in the subject(s)?

 

I love, love the old testament and spend a lot of time in it.  It is absolutely dripping rich in allegorical spiritual truth/lessons as well as instruction in righteousness/holiness.   Everything that I can think of that is in the New Testament is from the Old Testament and can be traced back to it.  In Christ and by His Spirit we now have more revelation of the truths that are in the OT.....the NT writings affirm and reveal many of those truths. 

[Wayne222]

I think too its good to start from genesis. It gives light to why we ended up here at this time. We do need to know the history of where evil came from and why man fell.

               Then the book of John shows christ and his ministry. 

[SisterActs2]

Hi Neighbor

Thank you for this thread.  Wonderful.

On 30/03/2018 at 2:31 AM, Jayne said:

How VITAL the Old Testament is.  My father drilled that into my heart and mind when I was young and I have never forgotten it.  

When one is witnessing to a non-believer or one who has never heard, yes, the emphasis is on the gospel:  Jesus Christ and him crucified.  The death, burial, and resurrection.  Today that is the beginning once sin is understood.

And yet, the Old Testament can shed so much light onto the gospel and it should be read and studied by New Testament Christians.

My weekly Bible study group is going through the entire Bible, verse by verse.  You'd be shocked at how many times we have to flip to the New Testament to view the words of Christ, Paul, Peter, and more and see how these Old Testament accounts are part of those accounts as well.  We started in Genesis and are now in 2 Samuel, but we've also been in almost every book of the New Testament.

"All scripture is".....well, you know that verse.

I think this is spot-on Jayne.  I love the OT too.  I guess you have all heard that saying "The New Testament is in the Old Testament concealed and the Old Testament is in the New Testament revealed.".  My first ever pastor told me that.  Hallelujah!  It's half-way through Good Friday here, and we have heard and sung a wonderful church service praising our wonderful Lord.

[Jayne]

46 minutes ago, SisterActs2 said:

Hi Neighbor

Thank you for this thread.  Wonderful.

I think this is spot-on Jayne.  I love the OT too.  I guess you have all heard that saying "The New Testament is in the Old Testament concealed and the Old Testament is in the New Testament revealed.  My first ever pastor told me that.  Hallelujah!  It's half-way through Good Friday here, and we have heard and sung a wonderful church service praising our wonderful Lord.

I like that saying your pastor told you.  I've never heard it.  It's true.

[Justin Adams]

15 hours ago, Neighbor said:

Anyone have interest in the subject(s)?

I posted this in a couple places already. Might serve to post it here as well. Yeshua's scriptures were far more than we have today. This is born out by the apostles who also quoted from books that are 'verboten' by our modern RCC offshoot church's dictates and dogmas. We pretend we are reformed and protestant, but I see that we still carry the torch of the Roman Church.

Yahweh Created order. He created His representatives somewhat like Him. He gave them freedom within the powers that He also gave them. He has always wished for obedient followers - citizens if you like - rather than automatons or subjects. The animal kingdoms are largely programmed in their sphere of influences and do not have the same freedom that His intelligent, self aware creations do.
There is a strict hierarchy in all Yahweh's intelligent creations. There are angelic beings for His  council to assist Him in the running of the creative order and then His creation of human beings - "made just a little lower than the angels".
Yahweh was not surprised when disobedience occurred. His Persona in the form of Yeshua was not an afterthought. His work and miracles can be seen all down thru Genesis to Joshua and on for the rest of our scriptures. Yeshua can be seen in the various meetings and covenants made with early Israel. The fire passing between the animal halves, the exodus of Lot, the pillars of fire and smoke, the stopping of the Red sea waters and later, the the Jordan as the priests carried the ark part way so the Israelites could pass on dry ground. The sun and moon stood still at Joshua's request, water flowed out of a rock at Moses request. Manna and good health for the tribes as they wandered around for forty years. Hail was sent to aid Joshua and sometimes hornets were sent before the armies.
Yeshua was ever present in an almost day-to-day interaction with the early tribes of Israel as God sought to turn them from their tendency to go astray after other gods. The other gods  often represented real entities. These were either fallen angels that loved the worship of mankind, or the dismal failures of Yahweh's High Council. (see psalm 82). In the book of  Judges we see He had to contend with their back and forth kind of waywardness of a. The book of Judges describes people that are NOT the ones often erroneously assumed to be mentioned in psalm 82. 
Take a look at Gideon in Judges. It is quite clear that the Lord mentioned there is Yeshua. Gideon's account switches back and forth between his descriptions of Messenger, Angel and finally Lord (Yahweh). Gideon lays out a feast for Him and the Lord uses His staff to consume it with fire. Gideon builds an altar there to Yahweh. It is obviously The Most High God in His Human-like form that is present there with Gideon. The Lord's first task for Gideon is to destroy his father's idols. Yeshua is God after all, so He is seen many times in the scriptures such as in the furnace as a form described by the king as, "one like unto the son of man".
What modern christian tend to do is tone down spiritual entities and even some will  disallow the Holy Spirit's works today and are in danger of the unforgivable sin. That is, attributing Holy Spirit Power to the mere work of mankind's excesses, or worse, to the action of demons. Unfortunately, removing the study and understanding of the 'unseen real' as C.S. Lewis puts it, has hamstrung believers and is happily encouraged by our fallen enemies.
Yahweh chose for Himself a people since the ones in charge of the nations (gods or fallen council members) had fallen so far short of His desires. These entities had misled the nations and demanded worship for themselves. They are still under Yahweh's ultimate authority, but there is still a very real battle raging in the heavens. See Daniel to get an idea of an angelic conflict that rages between the good and the bad unearthly forces.
The OT shows us that some members of Yahweh's high council preferred disobedience and poor performance along with setting themselves up as gods. There are so many parallels in most early religious and pagan practices that speak to the worship of deities other than Yahweh. Take a look at Semiramis, Tammuz and Nimrod. 
These Archons (false deities) were a very real counterfeit and Yahweh despised them. Their followers sacrificed children and all kinds of terrible rituals to curry favor. This is why Yahweh was so adamant that the Israelis not do this kind of thing. The idols of wood and stone represented Yahweh's enemies. They are a real power and cause humanity untold suffering. As in the case of Job's suffering. Job also mentions that Yahweh distrusts His angelic host.
Miracles abound in the OT so it can be seen that the advent of Yeshua very adequately leads up to the events of the NT and a continuation of His feast days and days to remember. The seasons taught about in the OT are not winter, spring,summer and fall, but the seasons of the Most High God. These seasons are to be taken vary seriously since they foretell the future as well. Such are many of the laws and most importantly the law written by the hand of God. Yeshua. This is reinforced by the meeting on the mount of the transfiguration. Yeshua had met Moses before. The seasonal Feast Days are of pivotal importance.
Yeshua (Yahweh is Salvation) can to set to rights the three issues: 1) angelic disobedience and the perversion of all creation; 2) regather the peoples that had to be scattered at Babel; 2) the redemption and salvation of mankind in order to elevate their status to be sons of the Father as the Bride of the Son.
This has been going on for a long time, but not as long as evolutionists would like you to believe. It is a plan with various opportunities and variances depending on the actions of the Lord's freedom loving nature. It is foolish to think that all is set in stone since that would abrogate Yahweh's intent of a free creation. That he overcomes in the end is a very sure thing, but how He will finally bring it to a close is hinted at strongly within certain parameters, but by no means certain as to the time of their occurrences.
Remember this: "if the Archons had really known what Yeshua's plan was, they never would have killed the King of Glory". (this is a paraphrase of what Saul (Paul) wrote). That is why the OT prophesies were a little shrouded and also why much of future prophesy is likewise hard to determine exactly. Yahweh's masterful planning will not be readily telegraphed to His enemies. That is why we TRUST in Him and not in the doctrines and the dogmas of men.
However, the Lord has something in His top pocket He is just waiting to show us all. 
One day He will pluck it out and present us with His New Jerusalem - just as He has planned from the very beginning. His enemies will be confounded and done away with. Then He will walk amongst His Beloved People.
I do not have any credentials, just a life of experience. If we read the OT and look down our noses at the Israelites, let me remind us of our 'going after foreign gods' and generally we are often prone to being victims of our foolish pride. Ask yourself: why all the denominations? They cannot all be correct can they? What about flat-earthers? A burgeoning belief.

Now we approach Ishtar. Renamed Easter by the RCC. (read about Semiramis). 
March 31st is Passover this year, 2018.

These Passover events are sadly misrepresented in some churches that still hold to Roman doctrine.
Passover in 30 0r 31 AD was Wednesday Nisan 14. [depends if the day inclusive calendar is used]
Yeshua ate the Passover that eve and later before dawn came he was taken to be crucified.
He died about 3 pm the same day and just before sundown was laid in the tomb.
Then the Feast of Unleavened bread continued with its Sabbath.
On the third evening after being laid in the tomb, on the 7 th day of the week (the weekly Sabbath), Yeshua arose. It was exactly 72 hours since He was laid there.
On the first day of the week at break of day, Mary arrived at the tomb with spices to find it empty. Yeshua rose on the weekly Sabbath. God's Eternally Proclaimed Sabbath.

Edited March 30, 2018 by Justin Adams