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The Olivet Discourse

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19 hours ago, Last Daze said:

However, it's not limited to Israel.

  • Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.”  Matthew 28:19-20

That includes Matthew 24.  I will observe Matthew 24.

What was the gospel message at that time.  Repent, for the kingdom of God is at hand,  John the Baptist gave this message.  It is the same message today, Repent.  But now we have the H.S.  So will you flee from Judea when you see the A/D (v. 15).  A very specific time and place is given, for a specific group of people, Israel.

In Christ

Montana Marv

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17 hours ago, JoeChan82 said:

John 6:66-69 From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him. 67 Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away? 68 Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life. 69 And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God.

Maybe I don't understand what you mean by what you say here, but on the face of it, I am compelled to disagree. Peter seems to be making a strong, clear statement of faith in Christ here. We may just be quibbling over the meanings of a few words. Speaking of Peter, he fell in the garden, but was restored in John 21, which happened before Christ's ascension. When you said 'The Disciples really did not believe until the resurrection." were you referring to Christ's ascension? I'm not jumping down your throat, just looking for clarification. Thank you for your patience. I realize that I can be quite dense at times.

 

The message at that time was; Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.  Of the 12, Judas was not a true believer, Peter denied Him 3 times.  It was not until after the Resurrection that they truly Believed.  John 20:28 - Thomas said, My Lord and My God.  Before the Resurrection, they believed in Jesus, but he was not their Lord and there God, after the Resurrection Jesus became their Lord and their God.  Then the deal was sealed with the indwelling of the H.S. at Pentecost.  Having knowledge of, and Believing in are two separate entities.

In Christ

Montana Marv

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 "A very specific time and place is given, for a specific group of people, Israel."

 

This is the difference Marv

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44 minutes ago, Daniel 11:36 said:

 "A very specific time and place is given, for a specific group of people, Israel."

 

This is the difference Marv

 

1 hour ago, Montana Marv said:

What was the gospel message at that time.  Repent, for the kingdom of God is at hand,  John the Baptist gave this message.  It is the same message today, Repent.  But now we have the H.S.  So will you flee from Judea when you see the A/D (v. 15).  A very specific time and place is given, for a specific group of people, Israel.

In Christ

Montana Marv

No one is denying that there is a very specific message to ethnic Israel in Judea.  The problem comes in when you try to restrict it to apply only to ethnic Israel in Judea.  A multitude beyond number will be martyred and Jesus is telling us what the watershed is, the AoD.

Just after the abomination of desolation is set up Israel is attacked and those on the alert flee to the wilderness.  What happens next?

  • So the dragon was enraged with the woman, and went off to make war with the rest of her children, who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus.  Revelation 12:17

Make war with whom?  Recently converted "tribulation saints?"  No, the war is waged with those who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus.

The AoD affects Israel first, then her offspring.  The message in Matthew 24 is to take action when you see the AoD.

  • Therefore when you see the abomination of desolation which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand), then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains. Whoever is on the housetop must not go down to get the things out that are in his house. Whoever is in the field must not turn back to get his cloak.  Matthew 24:15-18

Only the part in red is specifically for Israel.  The rest applies to everyone else who is watching and on the alert because the things that were just mentioned are going to take place.  Believers will be martyred around the world because of the name of Jesus.

  • Then they will deliver you to tribulation, and will kill you, and you will be hated by all nations because of My name.  At that time many will fall away and will betray one another and hate one another.  Matthew 24:9-10

It's because of the apostasy and hatred of believers that Jesus tells us to take action when we see the AoD.  This harmonizes perfectly with the activity of the red dragon at the end of Revelation 12 that I mentioned earlier.  Whatever action you plan to take will result from knowing God.

Something to ponder:

  • Forces from him will arise, desecrate the sanctuary fortress, and do away with the regular sacrifice. And they will set up the abomination of desolation.  By smooth words he will turn to godlessness those who act wickedly toward the covenant, but the people who know their God will display strength and take action.  Those who have insight among the people will give understanding to the many; yet they will fall by sword and by flame, by captivity and by plunder for many days.  Now when they fall they will be granted a little help, and many will join with them in hypocrisy.  Some of those who have insight will fall, in order to refine, purge and make them pure until the end time; because it is still to come at the appointed time.  Daniel 11:31-35

What action will you take?

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Posted (edited)

"Make war with whom?  Recently converted "tribulation saints?"  No, the war is waged with those who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus"

 

No .... only Israelites are a part Satan's war against Israel in Revelation 12

This passage of scripture is confined to the Lord, Israel, and Satan

 

Revelation

12:15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.

12:16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.

12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ

Edited by Daniel 11:36

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1 hour ago, Last Daze said:

Something to ponder:

  • Forces from him will arise, desecrate the sanctuary fortress, and do away with the regular sacrifice. And they will set up the abomination of desolation.  By smooth words he will turn to godlessness those who act wickedly toward the covenant, but the people who know their God will display strength and take action.  Those who have insight among the people will give understanding to the many; yet they will fall by sword and by flame, by captivity and by plunder for many days.  Now when they fall they will be granted a little help, and many will join with them in hypocrisy.  Some of those who have insight will fall, in order to refine, purge and make them pure until the end time; because it is still to come at the appointed time.  Daniel 11:31-35

What action will you take?

This was fulfilled by Antiochus Epiphanes.  Look at v.29 - At the appointed time he will invade the south again. v. 30 - Ships of the western coastlands will oppose him, and he will lose heart.  When Satan pursues, he does not lose heart.

In Christ

Montana Marv

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1 hour ago, Montana Marv said:

This was fulfilled by Antiochus Epiphanes.  Look at v.29 - At the appointed time he will invade the south again. v. 30 - Ships of the western coastlands will oppose him, and he will lose heart.  When Satan pursues, he does not lose heart.

In Christ

Montana Marv

Maybe.  Maybe not.

And how exactly do you know that Satan does not lose heart?  He certainly gets frustrated with Israel.

  • But the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened its mouth and drank up the river which the dragon poured out of his mouth.  So the dragon was enraged with the woman, and went off to make war with the rest of her children, who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus.  Revelation 12:16-17

Have you ever wondered why Satan is fixated on destroying Israel?  Because his only hope is to "break" prophecy.  Heaven and earth won't pass away until everything written is accomplished and he knows that.  He's trying to make the future prophecies to Israel impossible to fulfill.  Yeah, I can see where he'd lose heart at his failure to wipe them out since that was his plan A.

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21 hours ago, Daniel 11:36 said:

"I don't see a rapture in Matthew 24:36-51 as you state"

 

That is because there is no rapture stated in Matthew 24

The Lord is speaking about Israel in the passage and about what will happen during the 70th week decreed

The mystery of the rapture is given by Paul in Corinthians 15:51-58 and 1st Thessalonians 4:13-18

Greetings in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ,

Pops, 1 Cor 15:51-58 says absolutely nothing about the rapture. Also nowhere in Scripture does it say that the rapture is or was a mystery. The mystery refers to the fact that you don't have to die to be changed. Both the dead in Christ and those believers alive at His coming will receive a new immortal body. The benefit of the resurrection will be had by every believer whether having died or not.

1Co 15:51  Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1Co 15:52  In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

Just because the catching up happens after the resurrection and change doesn't mean it is the same thing.

Hallelujah

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22 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

Well I gave the Scriptures brother, but I will oblige to go deeper, its what I do, but as a preacher sometime my explanations turn into 2 page theses 😜

We are given the Matt. 24:1-6 Jesus to 70 AD Period via the Jews. We are then given the Disciples period where they get the Church off the ground and the 2000 year Church age which always has a few Messianic Jews in it even though God sees Israel as Dead Men's Bones. REMEMBER, these Disciples asked about the Events (Temples Destruction) Jesus spoke of, the Second Coming and the End of the World. So Jesus just covered the Jesus to 70 AD Period and the Church Age Period the Disciples were responsible for getting off the ground, then the GOSPEL MUST be Preached unto all the World and then THE END WILL COME.

Matt. 24:15-31 is the Tribulation and the Second Coming, that's is very obvious, Jesus is telling the Jews about Jacobs Troubles in the End Time. So the Second Coming is OVER, end of story, verses 32-35 is a parable of sorts, telling about all the Signs that have to be seen by the generation that will see the Second Coming. So that covers the Jews during the Tribulation period !! That covers basically every question they asked, EXCEPT ONE, Jesus has to cover the Messianic Jews that will be Raptured also, or he is not giving the Disciples their own fate and the fate of Messianic Jews, and of course Jesus has to tell this angle, BUT........this is supposed to only be given IN DETAIL unto Paul, so he gives this after he told of the Second Coming or Matthew just figured it was at the end times, he only gave the Rapture understanding unto Paul. This could go with the Matt. 25 Wedding Story. LETS LOOK AT IT: 

Matthew 24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only. 37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, 39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up. 44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh. 45 Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?

Lets look at verse 44 first, the Jews and ANYONE on earth will understand what is going on during the Tribulation, any Jew not dead will be protected by God in Petra, so Gods Protecting him, why must he worry about when the Lord is going to return? The Jews have been told very clearly they will be Protected in the Wilderness for 1260 days, it should be on a countdown clock !! If they weren't FAITHFUL SERVANTS via believing on Christ they would not be in Petra !!

Now as per verse 36, no man knows when Jesus is going to be sent back but God as per the Rapture. We all know after the Rapture when Jesus will return don't we ? 1260 days after the Beast conquers Jerusalem, it should be an EASY TELL, 7 Seals turn into 7 Trumpets and then we see Trees burn, Seas turn to blood, we see the 1st Woe and the 2nd Woe and the Two-witnesses die. Then we see the Vials go by one by one, the 6th Vial is all the Armies gathering at Armageddon, PLEASE TELL ME how everyone in the world doesn't know what is coming next? Its Jesus landing on Mt Zion !! NO ONE IS SURPRISED !! Come on guys, the Second Coming is not a SURPRISE nor can it be !! Verse 36 says you will not know the Day nor the hour, the Bible says we know the EXACT NUMBER OF DAYS the Beast Rules, 1260 Days.............. HEY, I NEED SOME SPLAINING HERE !! And that's just the Mathematical equation, the logic shows the same exact thing. 

Verse 37 says as in the Days of Noah so shall be the coming of Jesus (Son of Man) it then states before the Flood, they were EATING & DRINKING and giving in MARRIAGE until Noah entered the Ark, then the floods came and took them away, SO SHALL THE COMING of Jesus be. 

So were the people living in Noah's time partying and marrying during THE WRATH (Flood) ? Well of course not, so that has to mean the MARRYING and the EATING & DRINKING has to be before the Rapture, why would anyone think that JUST BEFORE THE Second Coming people on earth are going to be Drinkings, Partying, Marrying etc. etc ? NO !!! They are going to be dodging the Anti-Christ/Bowing unto him, dodging the Trumpet Judgments, dodging the Demons in Woe #1 and the 200 Million Angelic Army in Woe #2, the Boils via the Vials and all manner of Plagues, who could possibly think that just before Jesus Christ returns at the Second Coming people would have been Partying, Eating, Drinking and Marrying? NO WAY!! That can only be the Rapture, the PRE-TRIBULATION RAPTURE !! Amen. 

Then Jesus explains the Rapture Theory in verses 40-41, two will be in the field, ONE TAKEN and ONE LEFT.....two will be at the Grinding Mill, ONE TAKEN and ONE LEFT. The Rapture is this........All Christians will BE TAKEN.......THAT PREFERRED ONE who is a Christian. All non Christians will BE LEFT......THAT WICKED ONE who is not a Christian!

Finally verse 42 says, YOU KNOW NOT WHAT HOUR you Lord will come so BE READY. All the Christians (Remnant Christians who gave their lives into Christ AFTER the Rapture) will be dead at the Second Coming as will all the Jews who did not Flee unto Judea, all the Jews in Judea understand they have 1260 days to wait for Jesus' Second Coming. AMEN !! These Passages via Matthew 24:36-51 can ONLY BE about the Rapture.

Verse 31 is the Second Coming. 

 

Greetings in the name of the lord Jesus Christ,

Babel Man, wow, we actually have a point of agreement. You might want to reconsider your position on that text. Many pre-tribbers see those people being taken to judgement. Some have even said, "I want to be left behind", in the context of those verses. Nevertheless, Matthew's account of the Olivet Discourse focuses upon Christ's arrival at His second coming, therefore, those taken, are taken in the catching up of the elect. Both verse 31 and 36-44 refer to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together unto Him. Paralambano from which "taken" is translated is the very word Christ uses in John 14:3 translated "receive". Are you sure you don't want to reconsider your position on that text? It is much harder dealing with a mixture of truth and error than it is with a teaching that is entirely false.

John 14:3  And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

However, concerning your end time scenario, you need to scrap it and start over, it is utterly irredeemable.

All praise, honour, and glory be unto the Lord Jesus Christ.

 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Steve Conley said:

Pops, 1 Cor 15:51-58 says absolutely nothing about the rapture. Also nowhere in Scripture does it say that the rapture is or was a mystery

 

1 Corinthians 15:51-58 and 1st Thessalonians 4:13-18 tells everything about the rapture son which happens just before the tribulation period begins

 

Edited by Daniel 11:36

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