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JoeCanada

The 7 Sealed Scroll

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I am not sure if it is accurate to say that the book of life is contained within the 7 sealed scroll or not. But if the 7th seal opens the 7 trumpets, and the 7th trumpet opens the 7 vials, then you might be able to make the case that the book of life is opened concurrent to these seals/trumpets/vials.  In either case JoeCanada and Dapupper's posts do deserve more than automatic gainsaying.  I think you two made a unique case worthy of further consideration.  This is exactly the kind of discussion I was hoping to find on this site!

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Posted (edited)

Believe that this is accurate and true .... the Lamb's book of life is always presented as a separate issue compared with the 7 sealed scroll

Even here {Revelation 20:11-15]

What the Lord has not revealed in scripture is not known

However, what He has revealed we can know

 

Edited by Daniel 11:36
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9 hours ago, Diaste said:

Just so I understand; are you equating the book of life to the book Daniel was told to seal?

I am having trouble with that one too.  I think maybe the book with the 7 seals could fit the sealed book of Daniel. I tend to think that the book of life is a different book.

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The book of life is different .... the 7 seals reflect the time of tribulation coming upon the whole world just after the Lord's church has been made immortal

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Posted (edited)

*[[Dan 12:1]] KJV* And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time:

AND AT THAT TIME THY  PEOPLE SHALL BE DELIVERED , EVERY  ONE THAT SHALL BE FOUND  WRITTEN  IN  THE BOOK.

And

*[[Rev 13:8]] KJV* And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are NOT WRITTEN in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

ONCE the angels all know WHO is in the book,  whether saved or elect,  they will be attended to by the angels.   To participate and give aid to the righteous,  would not constitute a violation of the free will of man,  nor the sovereignty of God.  If you believe that the angels will participate in the gathering of the church,  or in the elect of Israel,  then you must believe that the book, that can only be opened by the lamb,  MUST BE OPEN AT THAT TIME!  All judgment has been given to Jesus. 

*[[Joh 5:22]] KJV* For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:

*[[Joh 5:29]] KJV* And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Blessings to all those written in that LAMBS Book of Life. 

The PuP 

Edited by Da Puppers
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2 hours ago, JoeChan82 said:

I am not sure if it is accurate to say that the book of life is contained within the 7 sealed scroll or not. But if the 7th seal opens the 7 trumpets, and the 7th trumpet opens the 7 vials, then you might be able to make the case that the book of life is opened concurrent to these seals/trumpets/vials.  In either case JoeCanada and Dapupper's posts do deserve more than automatic gainsaying.  I think you two made a unique case worthy of further consideration.  This is exactly the kind of discussion I was hoping to find on this site!

Thank you Joe....this is a discussion deserving more than just...."read your bible".......It is thru reading the bible that this question deserves our attention.

Everyone talks about this Scroll. What does the Seven Sealed Scroll contain?  

In Rev 5:4, John cries when no-one is found worthy to open the scroll. Would he cry if the Book of Daniel wasn't unsealed? Probably not.

We do know that when all 7 seals are removed, that the Scroll/Book is opened. So what's inside?

I have already suggested that it contains the Book of Life............... but what else is in that Scroll.

Does it contain Lamentations, Mourning and Woes? .........................................Compare Ezek 2:9, 3:3....with Rev 10:8-10

And when I looked, behold, an hand was sent unto me; and, lo, a roll of a book was therein; 
Eze 2:10  And he spread it before me; and it was written within and without: and there was written therein lamentations, and mourning, and woe.......... And he said unto me, Son of man, cause thy belly to eat, and fill thy bowels with this roll that I give thee. Then did I eat it; and it was in my mouth as honey for sweetness.

Rev 10:8  And the voice which I heard from heaven spake unto me again, and said, Go and take the little book which is open in the hand of the angel which standeth upon the sea and upon the earth. Rev 10:9  And I went unto the angel, and said unto him, Give me the little book. And he said unto me, Take it, and eat it up; and it shall make thy belly bitter, but it shall be in thy mouth sweet as honey. Rev 10:10  And I took the little book out of the angel's hand, and ate it up; and it was in my mouth sweet as honey: and as soon as I had eaten it, my belly was bitter.

I think this positively identifies the Scroll of Revelation is the same Scroll of Ezekiel.

Why is it both sweet and bitter? ......When the Scrolls Seals are removed, the names of the Righteous are revealed....( good news....sweet )....the Resurrection can then happen, followed by the Rapture.................. Then, the Wrath of God occurs....( bad news....bitter )....on the unrighteous.

So in order for the Resurrection /Rapture of the Righteous to occur, wouldn't their names need to be Revealed? If God needs the Books to be opened for judgment as in Rev 20:12.......He would also need the books to be opened for judgment of the unrighteous before/during the Day of the Lord? .............................  God changes not.  

 

 

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15 hours ago, JoeCanada said:

Thank you Joe....this is a discussion deserving more than just...."read your bible".......It is thru reading the bible that this question deserves our attention.

Everyone talks about this Scroll. What does the Seven Sealed Scroll contain?  

In Rev 5:4, John cries when no-one is found worthy to open the scroll. Would he cry if the Book of Daniel wasn't unsealed? Probably not.

We do know that when all 7 seals are removed, that the Scroll/Book is opened. So what's inside?

I have already suggested that it contains the Book of Life............... but what else is in that Scroll.

Does it contain Lamentations, Mourning and Woes? .........................................Compare Ezek 2:9, 3:3....with Rev 10:8-10

And when I looked, behold, an hand was sent unto me; and, lo, a roll of a book was therein; 
Eze 2:10  And he spread it before me; and it was written within and without: and there was written therein lamentations, and mourning, and woe.......... And he said unto me, Son of man, cause thy belly to eat, and fill thy bowels with this roll that I give thee. Then did I eat it; and it was in my mouth as honey for sweetness.

Rev 10:8  And the voice which I heard from heaven spake unto me again, and said, Go and take the little book which is open in the hand of the angel which standeth upon the sea and upon the earth. Rev 10:9  And I went unto the angel, and said unto him, Give me the little book. And he said unto me, Take it, and eat it up; and it shall make thy belly bitter, but it shall be in thy mouth sweet as honey. Rev 10:10  And I took the little book out of the angel's hand, and ate it up; and it was in my mouth sweet as honey: and as soon as I had eaten it, my belly was bitter.

I think this positively identifies the Scroll of Revelation is the same Scroll of Ezekiel.

Why is it both sweet and bitter? ......When the Scrolls Seals are removed, the names of the Righteous are revealed....( good news....sweet )....the Resurrection can then happen, followed by the Rapture.................. Then, the Wrath of God occurs....( bad news....bitter )....on the unrighteous.

So in order for the Resurrection /Rapture of the Righteous to occur, wouldn't their names need to be Revealed? If God needs the Books to be opened for judgment as in Rev 20:12.......He would also need the books to be opened for judgment of the unrighteous before/during the Day of the Lord? .............................  God changes not. 

A compelling train of thought.  There seems to be enough markers to indicate that something's there.

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On 6/16/2018 at 4:17 PM, JoeCanada said:

                                                                                                               The 7 Sealed Scroll

" I saw in the right hand of Him who sat on the throne a book written inside and on the back, sealed up with seven seals."...... Rev 5:1

So what do we know about the 7 Sealed Scroll? Let's look at some clues:

- The scroll is written on both sides........Rev 5:1

- The scroll is sealed with 7 seals........Rev 5:1

- John cries when no-one is worthy to open the scroll......Rev 5:4

- Jesus is found worthy to open the scroll....... Rev 5:9

Is the Book of Daniel sealed? ( Dan 12:1-4 )......  1  And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
2  And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
3  And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.
4  But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

The use of the definitive article 'the' in both instances. only a few verses apart. must refer to the same book. Because the book of Daniel does NOT contain the names of the righteous who will be resurrected. is this proof that the Book of Daniel is not sealed.???????

Could the BOOK that is sealed in Daniel be the Book of Life?.......

We see in Psalm 69:28....."28  Let them be blotted out of the book of the living, and not be written with the righteous.

We see in Psalm 139:16........"And in Your book were all written
The days that were ordained for me,
When as yet there was not one of them.

We see in Phil 4:3....." 3   and with other my fellow labourers, whose names are in the book of life.

We see in Rev 20:12....'12  And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works."

When we look at the Throne in Heaven Vision  in Dan 7, we see that a court is seated, books are opened, and a judgment rendered during Daniels 70th week. Because Gods judgment is immutable, we know without question that the Book of Life must also be opened at that time as well. The Book of Life cannot only be opened a thousand years after Christ's return, it must also be opened prior to the Resurrection and Rapture. Anytime souls are judged, it must be opened. It is the only way under Gods unchanging system of justice that He determines who the righteous are.

I don't believe that this is all that the 7 sealed scroll contains. There are a few more things. But for now......

So here is my question: If the Seven Sealed Scroll has all the names of the righteous, and the scroll must be unsealed to reveal them, then how could there possibly be a pre-tribulation Rapture? Does pre-trib not believe that the church is raptured before the 7 yr trib?......which can only begin with the unsealing of the scroll?.........and yet, the scroll has to be unsealed before the names are revealed.......... 

 

 

- Jesus is found worthy to open the scroll....... Rev 5:9

Is the Book of Daniel sealed? ( Dan 12:1-4 )......

This jump From Rev. to Daniel is a HUGE supposition not supported by scripture.

The scroll sealed with 7 seals, when opened, is what we read from Revelation chapter 8 onward to the end.

And in the scroll (and in Revelation) we see that the kingdoms of the world are taken from Satan and given to Jesus Christ - and at the same time, war in heaven where Satan is cast down.  It is therefore far more likely that the book sealed with 7 seals is the lease document of planet earth: a lease given to Adam for 6000 years. At the midpoint of the 70th week, the 6000 years is up, and the lease is over. The lease that Satan usurped will have ended and suddenly Satan has no more legal hold to the earth.

However, John could not get to the 7th trumpet where Satan loses the kingdoms until all seals are opened. Thank God someone was found worthy to break the seals, else Satan would remain the god of this planet forever.

The book of life belongs to Jesus: it is HIS book. When a child is conceived, life begins and a name is written in the book of life. When that child reaches the age of accountability and sins, his or her name is blotted out.  If he or she gets born again, the name is written in again. These are two different books for two different purposes.

 

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6 hours ago, iamlamad said:

- Jesus is found worthy to open the scroll....... Rev 5:9

Is the Book of Daniel sealed? ( Dan 12:1-4 )......

This jump From Rev. to Daniel is a HUGE supposition not supported by scripture.

The scroll sealed with 7 seals, when opened, is what we read from Revelation chapter 8 onward to the end.

And in the scroll (and in Revelation) we see that the kingdoms of the world are taken from Satan and given to Jesus Christ - and at the same time, war in heaven where Satan is cast down.  It is therefore far more likely that the book sealed with 7 seals is the lease document of planet earth: a lease given to Adam for 6000 years. At the midpoint of the 70th week, the 6000 years is up, and the lease is over. The lease that Satan usurped will have ended and suddenly Satan has no more legal hold to the earth.

However, John could not get to the 7th trumpet where Satan loses the kingdoms until all seals are opened. Thank God someone was found worthy to break the seals, else Satan would remain the god of this planet forever.

The book of life belongs to Jesus: it is HIS book. When a child is conceived, life begins and a name is written in the book of life. When that child reaches the age of accountability and sins, his or her name is blotted out.  If he or she gets born again, the name is written in again. These are two different books for two different purposes.

 

Hi iamlamad,

We start to see the scroll in Rev 5:1......"And I saw in the right hand of Him that sat on the throne a book written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals"...........................And yes, when all 7 seals are off the scroll and the scroll is opened, it is in Rev 8 onward.

I agree that the 'book' has within  it the title deed to the earth.  And it also has lamentations and woes....(Ezek 2:9).....because once the book/seal is opened, lamentations and woes follow.

And I'm pretty sure that it contains the book of life, with all the names of the righteous in it.....When we look at the Throne in Heaven Vision  in Dan 7, we see that a court is seated, books are opened, and a judgment rendered during Daniels 70th week. Because Gods judgment is immutable, we know without question that the Book of Life must also be opened at that time as well. The Book of Life cannot only be opened a thousand years after Christ's return, it must also be opened prior to the Resurrection and Rapture. Anytime souls are judged, it must be opened. It is the only way under Gods unchanging system of justice that He determines who the righteous are.

I"m not 100% dogmatic on this yet.....but pretty close. A little more research perhaps.

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On 6/16/2018 at 6:46 PM, JoeCanada said:

No..... my question is this......

If the Seven Sealed Scroll has all the names of the righteous, and the scroll must be unsealed to reveal them, then how could there possibly be a pre-tribulation Rapture? Does pre-trib not believe that the church is raptured before the 7 yr trib?......which can only begin with the unsealing of the scroll?.........and yet, the scroll has to be unsealed before the names are revealed.......... 

I'm asking those who propose a pre-trib rapture to explain this.  If the 7 sealed scroll contains within it the book of life, and that this book needs to be opened in order to reveal the names of the righteous, and this book is sealed with the seven seals of the scroll, then how does one have a pre-trib rapture before this scroll is unsealed?

Can you explain please......

You start with a HUGE "If" that is not truth to begin with. The book is the title deed or lease document to earth. What is in it is what we read from Rev. chapter 8 onward. On the other hand, the book of life is a HUGE book in heaven. These are two different books.

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