The context of 1 Thess 5:1

[iamlamad]

2 hours ago, douggg said:

You have the 7 years of the 70th week in the wrong place on the timeline.    

You have Jesus appearing before the throne of God in the third heaven, and the evil men of the world terrified, wanting to hide in caves...

Then you have the 7 years beginning in the 7th seal.     Then Jesus descending from heaven, 7years later (being visible to the whole world for 7 years) to destroy the beast?     Really, iamlamad ?

Exactly: because that is what John is telling us. If you read, they know God is on the throne, but they are terribly afraid of His face anyway.  They hide in caves - exactly what Isaiah 2 said would be a sign of the Day of the Lord. Jesus will stay in heaven for another 7 plus years - because the rapture just happened when He came FOR His church. Why not just believe John? It makes a very good theory to just believe what is written!

Yes, 7 years begining with the 7th seal. And John shows Jesus returning in chapter 19 - 7 plus years later.  NO NOT BEING VISABLE! Where in the world do you come up with these ideas! John 14 TELLS us He will take His church back to the mansions He has prepared.  Jesus waits out the week IN HEAVEN, not in the air and not on the ground. He only comes to the AIR at the pretrib rapture.  

If you don't like His coming in chapter 19, where you would want to move it?

[iamlamad]

2 hours ago, douggg said:

Where would the 7 years fit in - if 2018?    

In 2037, based on Jerusalem being the fig tree, the 7 years fitting in - would mean the 7 years have to start before the end of 2030.     Which is around 11 years away.  

18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24. Is that 7 years?

 

I know, some people have said we are IN the 7 years. They are in error.

Edited August 22, 2018 by iamlamad

[iamlamad]

2 hours ago, douggg said:

Why should I think that?    In Revelation, the person appears as being in the Antichrist - King of Israel (illegitimate) role in that one verse.     For most of Revelation, the person is not in the Antichrist role, but in the beast role - 8th (Julio-Claudian) King of the Roman Empire.

Simple: you imagine the first white horse is the Antichrist - as if He got to choose His own color!  It is all your imagination, having nothing to do with scripture. That first seal was opened around 32 AD to represent the CHURCH with the GOSPEL - the church being the only righteous entity (white) on earth in 32 AD.  Sorry, but the Antichrist is not yet revealed. He is FUTURE. The first seal is HISTORY.  You need to concentrate more on TIME. 

Edited August 22, 2018 by iamlamad

[iamlamad]

2 hours ago, douggg said:

I am not understanding your questions because since I believe that none of the seals have been fulfilled yet - then obviously I would not believe the trumpets has been fulfilled nor the 70th week fulfilled.

Do you at least believe that Chapter 1 was in John's time?

And chapters 2 and 3 in John's time? Where do you suppose the text switches to future?

[douggg]

1 hour ago, iamlamad said:

Yes, 7 years begining with the 7th seal. And John shows Jesus returning in chapter 19 - 7 plus years later.  NO NOT BEING VISABLE! Where in the world do you come up with these ideas!

It is in the text of the sixth seal.   In the sixth seal, they see the throne of God in (the third) heaven, verse 16.         The second heaven in verse 14

, the cosmos, is removed like a scroll is rolled together.

 

You have the 7 years beginning while the evil men are trying to hide from Jesus, who they SEE. 

 

The 7 years don't begin with the 7th seal, just because it is number 7, as you are saying.     What the bible says is the seven years begin with  Daniel 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week:

But you are having the 7 years taking place - with the cosmos rolled aside before then, and the world seeing Jesus the whole time, as he is before the throne of God in the third heaven.

 

Revelation 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;

16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

[douggg]

2 hours ago, iamlamad said:

18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24. Is that 7 years?

I know, some people have said we are IN the 7 years. They are in error. 

But you have the 7 years beginning after the sixth seal.    Which in the sixth seal, the second heaven is rolled up like a scroll - removed.   And the world seeing Jesus before the throne of God.

You are not having the 7 years beginning the way the bible says in Daniel 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week:

Instead you have some far out idea that the 7 years begin with the 7th seal,  because the 7th seal is number 7.

___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Daniel 9:27 is the only text in the entire bible that states what begins the 7 years.

The "he" who confirms the covenant with many to begin the 7 years - is the Antichrist.    The rider on the white horse.

Revelation 6-19 tells what is going to take place during the 7 years.

Edited August 22, 2018 by douggg

[Diaste]

15 hours ago, Salty said:

The falling away Paul associated with that "man of sin" sitting in the temple playing God, but I don't think that will begin until the latter 1260 day period, right at the middle to be more exact, when the AOD is setup. Rev.13 points to the idol image setup following the pattern of what the king of Babylon did. Nebuchadnezzar made a golden image of himself, and demanded all to bow in worship at the sound of the psalter. Daniel and his fellows refused to bow. I believe when that idol is setup, and the command to bow, is when the persecutions upon us will begin. Like in Daniel's day, he and his fellows were well protected prior to the command to bow to the idol. Daniel was even exalted by Nebuchadnezzar via God's working.

 

And for a while now I have been seeing a difference between the falling away and the time following the A of D. The time of GT beginning after the A of D is forced conversion, on pain of death. In contrast the apostasy of 2 Thess 2 is a rebellion. This was the point I was making in previous posts; that we will see a 'falling away' before the forced conversions. 

From what I read the beast will sit in the Temple at the midpoint. Well, simply enough if there is a midpoint there must be a before and an after or the midpoint is just a beginning or an end. Of course we would witness the 'before' as Jesus said, 'all these are the beginnings of sorrows' and, 'this generation will not pass till all is fulfilled'. So we will see many things before the A of D and I'm thinking the 'falling away' is one of them.

Consider that the world worships the beast and the dragon based on the healing of the deadly head wound, from Rev 13. This is a willing act on the part of the world based on something the beast does, or has, or is; he's apparently immortal and he has power and authority. This is quite different from sitting in the Temple and declaring himself god, which happens at the midpoint. 

The words of Paul focus on the beast declaring himself god in the Temple. The deadly head wound comes before this and stuns the world. Which is when the falling away occurs as those of the world willingly follow the beast, compared to the GT where all who will not take the mark, worship the image or the beast, are killed. 

It seems then Paul is saying we will see a great exodus from the Way the Truth and the Life, toward the immediate condition of the existence of the beast and Satan's power. No doubt the mega churches and the wolves that lead them will be in the vanguard.

[Last Daze]

8 hours ago, iamlamad said:

Do you at least believe that Chapter 1 was in John's time?

And chapters 2 and 3 in John's time? Where do you suppose the text switches to future?

The letters to the churches in Chapters 2 & 3 reflect the times of the Gentiles, the worldwide preaching of the gospel.  That was taking place in John's time and extended for centuries afterward.

[Last Daze]

3 hours ago, Diaste said:

And for a while now I have been seeing a difference between the falling away and the time following the A of D. The time of GT beginning after the A of D is forced conversion, on pain of death. In contrast the apostasy of 2 Thess 2 is a rebellion. This was the point I was making in previous posts; that we will see a 'falling away' before the forced conversions. 

Good point and the two I think are related.  The conquering that is associated with the first seal is when truth is assaulted.  This attack on truth has several fronts and is a long, protracted campaign.  It's been going on for decades and has caused a gradual falling away from the truth.  A falling away from the truth should not be confused with church attendance.  People can worship God with their lips but yet their hearts can be far from Him. 

[iamlamad]

1 hour ago, Last Daze said:

The letters to the churches in Chapters 2 & 3 reflect the times of the Gentiles, the worldwide preaching of the gospel.  That was taking place in John's time and extended for centuries afterward.

Primarily they were to 7 EXISTING churches that John sent this book too. Some people do think they represent ages; I rather think they represent churches throughout the ages of the Gentiles.  We are not so far off here.

 

You did not answer the question. I hope you will. Where do you suppose the text switches to future?

Edited August 22, 2018 by iamlamad