They believe he is the Messiah but do not believe him

[douggg]

On 7/28/2018 at 3:34 PM, Babbler said:

We are to worship in truth and spirit. It has now been 70 years since Israel became a nation. More than a generation. No rapture, and the lawless one has not appeared. Daniel is an apocalyptic letter to the Jews in 162 BC. The little horn is Antiochus Epiphanes IV, and the anointed one that does not possess the land is the high priest Elias the III. 

Israel is not the fig tree in the parable of the fig tree.   Jerusalem is the fig tree, because as Jesus and the disciples were about to enter Jerusalem that last passover week, knowing he would be rejected - Jesus cursed a fig tree beside the road, which withered up and died.

 

Jerusalem was back in the hand of the Jews in 1967.

 

So taking 1967+70 years for a generation = 2037.     Jesus returns before then - at the latest.

 

But we still have to consider the 7 years prior,  for the end times prophecies to take place for the 70th week.      So that looks like sometime before the end of 2030, the 70th week will begin.

 

I agree with your basic premise though that we are to worship in spirit and truth.

 

 

 

Edited August 16, 2018 by douggg

[Willa]

Since the stars haven't fallen from heaven as yet and the earth has not been destroyed, me thinks that the prophecy has not been fulfilled 2000 years ago.  That whole theory has way too many holes in it and has bred so much hatred of the Jewish people--rotten fruit from a bad tree.  It so sad that centuries of people have bought into it.

[Adstar]

55 minutes ago, Willa said:

Since the stars haven't fallen from heaven as yet and the earth has not been destroyed, me thinks that the prophecy has not been fulfilled 2000 years ago. 

Yes indeed.. The belief that it was all fulfilled 2000 years ago came out of a desire of the catholic religion to see themselves as being the fulfillment of the 1000 year kingdom.. They had to try their best to make events of early history fit the prophecies and where they could not make passages fit literally they had to interpret them as symbolic happenings.. So the stars fell from the sky symbolically and the world being destroyed was symbolic of the old pagan roman empire being overcome by the catholic religion...  The further we advance in history the more ludicrous the preterist interpretation should be to people.. But people keep holding onto it because that's what the traditions of men have taught for many centuries..

[Willa]

Augustine was a great blessing to all Christians as to the truth of many of his doctrines.  However, his symbolic interpretation of Rome being the New Jerusalem did great harm.  Not everything he wrote was godly doctrine.

[n2thelight]

On 7/28/2018 at 5:34 PM, Babbler said:

It has now been 70 years since Israel became a nation. More than a generation.

i'm thinking there's at least 2 more numbers that could be defined as a generation in scripture,if I'm not mistaken 120 is one,can't remember the other off hand

[OldCoot]

Babbler, one of the evidences of the Spirit is patience.  

Don't fret, Israel will come around, and it is closer than you might think. That is one of the main purposes of the Great Tribulation period.  To kick them in the backside, wake them up, and finally bring them around.  And they have to be brought around, because Yeshua is not coming back to terre ferme until they do.  Yeshua in both the books of Hosea and Matthew stated that.

Hosea 5:15 (NKJV) I will return again to My place
Till they acknowledge their offense.
Then they will seek My face;
In their affliction they will earnestly seek Me.”

Matthew 23:38-39 (NKJV) See! Your house is left to you desolate; 39 for I say to you, you shall see Me no more till you say, ‘Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord!’

Ezekiel said that Israel would be restored as a national identity (both Judah and Israel), but initially in unbelief.  Gradually, they would return to the Lord spiritually.  Even today, the number of Jews that are turning to Yeshua is greater than at any time in history.   The leadership, both secular and religious have yet to come around, but they will.  

You may not know, but Rabbi Yitzhak Kaduri, one of the most long lived Jewish sages in Israel and one of the most venerated, at the end of his life was teaching his students that Yeshua was the promised Messiah.  

He left a note at his death that he wanted read 1 year after his death.  There is a little mystical thing in Judaism, that 1 year after a person's death, you cannot say anything negative about that person.   Rabbi Kaduri's note was secured away and 1 year after his death it was published online.  It said that Yeshua was the Messiah.  It caused a major uproar in the Orthodox Jewish community. But you can find, online, videos of his students acknowledging that Rabbi Kaduri taught them that Yeshua is the Messiah, and they have come to accept Yeshua also.  Praise be to the Lord who remembers His promises!!!!!

And it is because the Lord remembers His promises that is our hope.   That is why a like to say that Israel is the believers insurance policy.  It is physical, tangible proof that the Lord remembers His promises.  And it is why He will always remember His promises to those who place their trust in the Yeshua.

 

Edited September 3, 2018 by OldCoot

[iamlamad]

On 7/28/2018 at 4:34 PM, Babbler said:

We are to worship in truth and spirit. It has now been 70 years since Israel became a nation. More than a generation. No rapture, and the lawless one has not appeared. Daniel is an apocalyptic letter to the Jews in 162 BC. The little horn is Antiochus Epiphanes IV, and the anointed one that does not possess the land is the high priest Elias the III. 

Revelation is a letter written in two parts; the time of Caesar Neron(666) which is the first twelve chapters.  A 7 headed 7 diadem kingdom (Rome a city of  seven hills and seven provinces). Domitian is the mortally wounded recovered, a reincarnate evil of Nero. Both persecuted Christians. In Domitian's time, Rome is now the city of seven hills and ten diadems. Two of Romes provinces divided in two and they acquired another to make ten. The letters to the churches was added to the beginning.

Jesus said he would come on the last day and bundle the wicked first, and then gather his followers.     And then the world be burnt, on that last day.  To quote Daniel or Revelation about the future is to deny the words of our Lord.  Charles Nelson Darby the 3rd is totally erroneous in his teaching.

 

Or, Thomas Nelson Darby was right, and Babbler is mistaken!

[iamlamad]

On 8/15/2018 at 9:58 PM, douggg said:

Israel is not the fig tree in the parable of the fig tree.   Jerusalem is the fig tree, because as Jesus and the disciples were about to enter Jerusalem that last passover week, knowing he would be rejected - Jesus cursed a fig tree beside the road, which withered up and died.

 

Jerusalem was back in the hand of the Jews in 1967.

 

So taking 1967+70 years for a generation = 2037.     Jesus returns before then - at the latest.

 

But we still have to consider the 7 years prior,  for the end times prophecies to take place for the 70th week.      So that looks like sometime before the end of 2030, the 70th week will begin.

 

I agree with your basic premise though that we are to worship in spirit and truth.

 

 

 

I think the intent of what Jesus said was, those people alive (and old enough to understand) when Israel became a nation, would still be alive (or at lease some of them alive) to see the end come.  If someone were 20 years old in 1948, then are old now, and won't be alive much longer! But if it is 1967, then perhaps we have a few years yet. 

[douggg]

1 hour ago, iamlamad said:

I think the intent of what Jesus said was, those people alive (and old enough to understand) when Israel became a nation, would still be alive (or at lease some of them alive) to see the end come.  If someone were 20 years old in 1948, then are old now, and won't be alive much longer! But if it is 1967, then perhaps we have a few years yet. 

I was born in 1948.    Time is running out.   

1967 + 70 = 2037.     The 7 years, thus, would start at the latest 2030.     It looks like a lot sooner.

We'll see what President Trump has to say around the feast of tabernacles.    That might be the peace setup which Israel is supposed to be in when Gog/Magog attacks.

It is not the confirmation of the covenant for 7 years, because that is something that Antichrist will do acting in the role of the perceived messiah, confirming the Mt. Sinai covenant that Moses required in Deuteronomy 31:9-13 - for 7 years - and on the feast of tabernacles.

The Antichrist (what talked about as the little horn) in Daniel 7 seeks to change the times and seasons.    So it is not a guarantee that he will confirm the covenant with many for 7 years on the feast of tabernacles.