Why so much disagreement on the start of THE DAY?

[iamlamad]

4 hours ago, Diaste said:

I'm pretty sure you have said numerous times that Rev is a chronology from beginning to end. Now you change. 

In fact you have cited things like the Rev 19 only occurs after Rev 16, for example. No matter. You can do and say and think anything you like. No restrictions. 

The truth is Rev 19...

"11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.

13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, King Of Kings, And Lord Of Lords."

....is the very same event as Rev 6...

"12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;

16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?"

...just described in greater detail as we are shown what Jesus looks like when he returns at the 6th seal.

You don't think there are two comings of Jesus in wrath in Rev do you? 

So the events of Rev 19 occur just as spoken in Matt 24, the gathering has occurred at the sign of the coming of Jesus, Rev 19:1-10, and then heaven is opened and Jesus comes to earth with a great army of warrior angels to bring the wrath of God on the enemies of God. So then, the 6th seal is the same as the return of Jesus in Rev 19:11-16.

 

 

The truth is, when you make a statement like this:

The truth is Rev 19.......is the very same event as Rev 6...

Most readers will know you are simply mistaken in your theories. There is little need to go further, for you seem happen in your false theories. 

It seems some writers on this thread have NO CONCEPT of a scroll sealed with seals - so that NO ONE not authorized can ever open these seals and then open the document. 

There is simply no way (it's impossible) that a seal protecting a document is associated with something that is written INSIDE the document. 

It seems you also wish to put God in a box, telling Him He is allowed only ONE (1) gathering!  That is not wise. God can and will have as many gatherings as His wishes. 

Jesus comes FIRST For His saints, then later WITH His saints.  Do you imagine God is angry with His saints? Not a chance! His wrath will begin AFTER His coming FOR His saints, in the Day of the Lord.  This is NOT a difficult concept: if a gun is to be fired, a trigger is pulled that releases a lock mechanism so a firing pin can strike the primer of the bullet. That time between is called "lock time."  Just as with a gun, there will be TIME between the catching up of believers and the start of the DAY. Be advised, these are TWO DIFFERENT EVENTS, but one leads to the other, or one is the trigger for the other. 

Get this straight and don't forget it: First thes. 4 IS a coming, but it is NOT has Rev. 19 coming. Thes. 4 is His coming FOR His saints. He is NOT coming in wrath, for He will escort His bride to heaven. However, the DAY of His wrath will then start. You are trying to force all coming scriptures into ONE coming. That theory will not fit all scriptures: He is coming TWICE more.  Believe it for it is TRUTH. The NEXT coming will be before the 70th week begins, and the rapture church is shown in heaven in chapter 7 as the large group too large to number.  The WEEK then begins with the 7th seal. 

WHAT YOU ARE MISSING: The signs in the sun and moon will be shown TWICE MORE, first as the sign for the day of the Lord, as shown in Joel 2 and Rev. 6 - the the moon appearing blood red. But then these signs will be seen AGAIN, and they will be different - and it will be the sin for HIS COMING as seen in Rev. 19. This time neither the sun nor the moon will be visible - it will be total darkness. So DIFFERENT signs for DIFFERENT purposes. Just like His two comings: DIFFERENT comings for two DIFFERENT purposes: first FOR His saints, then later WITH His saints.  You can doubt this all you want or choose, but in the end it is going to happen and chances are good you will be left behind, because you were not expecting Him. 

Axiom on Revelation:

ANY theory that must rearrange John's God given chronology is immediately suspect and WILL BE proven wrong.

 

Since your theory requires the 6th seal to be moved to the end, your theory will be proven wrong.

Edited August 27, 2018 by iamlamad

[Diaste]

19 hours ago, iamlamad said:

 

Last Thoughts...

These events will soon take place and there will be no denial at that time. 

Watch for the false messiah, do not listen.

Watch for the false signs, do not believe.

Watch for the false promises, do not act.

Find me when the things you currently deny appear before your eyes.

Diaste.

[iamlamad]

1 hour ago, Diaste said:

Last Thoughts...

These events will soon take place and there will be no denial at that time. 

Watch for the false messiah, do not listen.

Watch for the false signs, do not believe.

Watch for the false promises, do not act.

Find me when the things you currently deny appear before your eyes.

Diaste.

You still don't get it: I won't be here. Neither will anyone else of the Body of Christ on earth that will be watching for His coming. 

Now I can do the same thing: EXPECT Jesus' coming any day now. You will not see the false messiah before He comes. 

[Gibbus]

On 8/22/2018 at 11:04 AM, iamlamad said:

I hope all the participants here know, Revelation is written in an order. Since John numbered so many things for sequencing, why would anyone suppose it is OUT of order? 

As I read it, Jesus  begins this book right where John was at the time, around 95 AD.  In chapter 21, we see John is beyond the thousand year reign of Christ, so far far into our future today.  It just makes sense then that somewhere between chapters 1 and chapters 21, is where the church is TODAY. 

I hope then that all the writers here will show us where they perceive the church is today in the book of Revelation. I am not interested in preterist thought - only those that believe much of Revelation is still future need answer. 

 

Next, I would like to see where everyone places the start of the Day of the Lord, and WHY. 

Next, where do people see the start of the 70th week and why.

Finally, where do people see the exact midpoint, and why.

Since Revelation already HAS an order, that is a chronology, I will not change it. I think the Holy Spirit knew and knows the sequence of events that is coming. Therefore, I believe any theory that must rearrange Revelation to work will immediately be suspect and in the end will be proven wrong. Further, I am convinced that it is the 70th week that is INSIDE the seals scroll, and that all 7 seals must be opened before the 70th week can begin. I see the 70th week then beginning with the 7th seal that allows the book to be opened. therefore the trumpets will come in the first half of the week. 

With that said, John TELLS US where the Day of the Lord, or the Day of His wrath begins: right at the 6th seal. 

Next, I see the 70th week beginning right at the 7th seal, and I see the midpoint right at the 7th trumpet. I see the week end at the 7th vial. therefore the entire week is marked by 7's. 

I find it amusing that people imagine they can move events around (rearranging) revelation to fit a theory. I think it would be far wiser to create a theory from the book AS WRITTEN. I find such a theory fits all end times scriptures.

(It Depends on What you Want to do With the "Parable" Figures --- Off Topic)

29 A.D. Crucifixion of Jesus to 9/11/2001 = 2030 Years or 2300 of Daniel (SEALS Completed)

 

Now About Your Question

49 // 70 Days and 7 Years // 3.5 Years (half of 7 or 42 mos)

490 // 1290 and 1335 // 1260

70th Weeks 490 Days Specifically (?)

9/23/2017 Jupiter Alignment t0 1/26/2019 = 490 Days (70 Weeks to complete 1260/1290)

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Comet Elenin in 2010 + 1335 Days = Flight 370 + 1290 Days = Jupiter Alignment (2017) + 490 Days = 1/26/2019 End of 70 Weeks

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(Comet Halley or 1947 to 2066 A.D., is Perfect Match for the Total Arguments God has made for the 70 Years and 7wks/49yrs, for 119 Years Total ... ... ... ... it is a unique "Naked Eye" object for Earth, the only one in that category ... ... ... ... Comet Elenin was also "Unique")

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(God's Articulation will always add a deviation, when Watching Celestial Objects, as a "Sign from God" the issue is slightly greater, but not much, the Jewish People had a Saying, but I will add to it ........................"January is the beginning of the CIVIL YEAR" for the "CIVIL JEW"......................where as "March is the beginning of the SPIRITUAL YEAR" for the "COUNTRY JEW") (IF Flight 370 = MARCH/SPIRITUAL, then 7 Trumpets = JANUARY/CIVIL)

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(When the Wise Men came to worship Jesus, they came, with "Science, History, and a 'Sign'", and all of that was attributed to the "Star of Bethlehem" ... ... ... ... and God blessed their church, and no one could prevail against it ... ... ... ... for a Witness, God had used them)

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(Zechariah Sitchin Died in 2010 the very moment Comet Elenin became "Effective" ... ... ... ... and the last person he spoke with about the matter, before his death, was me personally, but nobody will acknowledge that claim, so I am the only witness)

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(29 A.D. Crucifixion of Jesus, is the Most Important Event in the Gospel's Law ... ... ... ... A DAY FOR A 1000 YEARS ... ... ... ... 2019 A.D. the Second Coming that identifies with the Trumpets, is a perfect, pictorial/picture, match for that statement ... ... ... ... it is because God uses language like that, that we do not need a real scientific answer ... ... ... ... we do not need "wise men")

(10 hour walk today for euthanasia, I better get going, no going to far though)

Edited August 31, 2018 by Gibbus

[Revelation Man]

On 8/22/2018 at 10:04 AM, iamlamad said:

I hope all the participants here know, Revelation is written in an order. Since John numbered so many things for sequencing, why would anyone suppose it is OUT of order? 

 

Daniel, the Old Testament version of Revelation as per the End Time Beasts, the Time, times and half time etc. etc. is also not in Chronological order. So Revelation doesn't have to be either right ?

The book of Daniel is actually put together thematically, in two distinct parts: 1) Life in Babylon 2) Prophetic Visions. The time frame of these sections overlap  one another. For instance Chapter 6 takes places near the end of Daniel’s life, whereas Chapter 7 takes place nearly 20 years earlier.

As we look at the time line, it’s important to note that Daniel began his time in Babylon serving in Nebuchadnezzar’s court but ends up serving under Darius the Mede. The Medo-Persians took over Babylon in 539 BC, which is only explicitly mentioned in Daniel 5:30-31. Here is a simple key of the kings in Daniel:

1. Nebuchadnezzar – King of Babylon (605–562 BC)

2. Belshazzar – Grandson of Nebuchadnezzar, Co-Regent of Babylon with his father Nabonidus (553-539 BC)

3. Darius – Governor of Babylon under Cyrus (~539 – 530 BC) 

4. Cyrus – King of Persia (559 – 530 BC)

I. SECTION 1 – CHAPTER 1-6, LIFE IN BABYLON FROM 606BC – 534BC

A. THREE DRAMATIC CHARACTER DISPLAYS

Chapter 1 – Refuses King’s Delicacies, 605 BC under Nebuchadnezzar

Chapter 3 – Golden Statue/Fiery Furnace, 587 BC under Nebuchadnezzar

Chapter 6 – Prays/Lion’s Den, 538~534 BC under Darius

B. TWO DREAM INTERPRETATIONS FOR NEBUCHADNEZZAR

Chapter 2 – Great Golden Image, 603 BC

Chapter 4 – Nebuchadnezzar’s Judgment, 571 – 562 BC

C. ONE VISION INTERPRETATION FOR BELSHAZZAR

Chapter 5 – Writing on the Wall, 539 BC

II. SECTION 2 – CHAPTER 7-12, PROPHETIC VISIONS FROM 553BC-533BC

A. TWO PROPHETIC VISIONS W/ANGELIC INTERPRETATIONS

Chapter 7 – 4 Beasts, Little Horn, Ancient of Days, 553 BC

Chapter 8 – Ram and the Goat, 551 BC

B. TWO ANGELIC VISITATIONS

Chapter 9 – Seventy Weeks, 539 BC

Chapter 10 – 12 – King of the North and King of the South to 1335 days, ~534 BC

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So if Daniel is not in Chronological order, why does Revelation have to be in order? What you guys do is limit yourselves or box yourselves into a corner that you can't get out of. I think Revelation is a lot like Daniel: 1.) Life on earth via the Church, from the Church to the Second Coming of Jesus Christ. 2.) Then we get Prophetic Visions. Of course they overlap, and of course the Life on earth partly has to be Visions also, because it was future to John, but its meant to be "Real time visions as per the Chronological order" followed by Prophetic Visions of events not meant to be seen as a part of the order of the book of Rev. 

I will answer the other questions in another post, this was mostly meant to show Revelation, like Daniel, doesn't have to be in Chronological order at all for it to be factual. As a matter of fact, God wanting to keep His secrets hidden until the end might have so desired it to be done this way on purpose !! 

The 1260 is the Key to Revelation, once we understand that is when the DOTL or Gods Wrath starts, we can then understand the whole book on a much deeper level. We can then understand all of the time-lines. 

 

Edited September 1, 2018 by Revelation Man

[iamlamad]

2 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

Daniel, the Old Testament version of Revelation as per the End Time Beasts, the Time, times and half time etc. etc. is also not in Chronological order. So Revelation doesn't have to be either right ?

The book if Daniel is actually put together thematically, in two distinct parts: 1) Life in Babylon 2) Prophetic Visions. The time frame of these sections overlap  one another. For instance Chapter 6 takes places near the end of Daniel’s life, whereas Chapter 7 takes place nearly 20 years earlier.

As we look at the time line, it’s important to note that Daniel began his time in Babylon serving in Nebuchadnezzar’s court but ends up serving under Darius the Mede. The Medo-Persians took over Babylon in 539 BC, which is only explicitly mentioned in Daniel 5:30-31. Here is a simple key of the kings in Daniel:

1. Nebuchadnezzar – King of Babylon (605–562 BC)

2. Belshazzar – Grandson of Nebuchadnezzar, Co-Regent of Babylon with his father Nabonidus (553-539 BC)

3. Darius – Governor of Babylon under Cyrus (~539 – 530 BC) 

4. Cyrus – King of Persia (559 – 530 BC)

I. SECTION 1 – CHAPTER 1-6, LIFE IN BABYLON FROM 606BC – 534BC

A. THREE DRAMATIC CHARACTER DISPLAYS

Chapter 1 – Refuses King’s Delicacies, 605 BC under Nebuchadnezzar

Chapter 3 – Golden Statue/Fiery Furnace, 587 BC under Nebuchadnezzar

Chapter 6 – Prays/Lion’s Den, 538~534 BC under Darius

B. TWO DREAM INTERPRETATIONS FOR NEBUCHADNEZZAR

Chapter 2 – Great Golden Image, 603 BC

Chapter 4 – Nebuchadnezzar’s Judgment, 571 – 562 BC

C. ONE VISION INTERPRETATION FOR BELSHAZZAR

Chapter 5 – Writing on the Wall, 539 BC

II. SECTION 2 – CHAPTER 7-12, PROPHETIC VISIONS FROM 553BC-533BC

A. TWO PROPHETIC VISIONS W/ANGELIC INTERPRETATIONS

Chapter 7 – 4 Beasts, Little Horn, Ancient of Days, 553 BC

Chapter 8 – Ram and the Goat, 551 BC

B. TWO ANGELIC VISITATIONS

Chapter 9 – Seventy Weeks, 539 BC

Chapter 10 – 12 – King of the North and King of the South to 1335 days, ~534 BC

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So if Daniel is not in Chronological order, why does Revelation have to be in order? What you guys do is limit yourselves or box yourselves into a corner that you can't get out of. I think Revelation is a lot like Daniel: 1.) Life on earth via the Church, from the Church to the Second Coming. 2.) Then we get Prophetic Visions. Of course they overlap, and of course the Life on earth partly has to be Visions also, because it was future to John, but its meant to be "Real time visions as per the Chronological order" followed by Prophetic Visions of events not meant to be seen as a part of the order of the book of Rev. 

I will answer the other questions in another post, this was mostly meant to show Revelation, like Daniel, doesn't have to be in Chronological order at all for it to be factual. As a matter of fact, God wanting to keep Hos secrets hidden until the end might have so desired it to be done this way on purpose !! 

The 1260 is the Key to Revelation, once we understand that is when the DOTL or Gods Wrath starts, we can then understand the whole book on a much deeper level. We can then understand all of the time-lines. 

 

They are two different books written by two different men. There is no necessity that they be written the same. Revelation came as a vision from God, and John wrote it as he saw it. The book of Daniel did not come that way.  I will agree, Revelation does not HAVE to be in chronological order, but my point is, IT IS in the right order. 

[Revelation Man]

On 8/22/2018 at 10:04 AM, iamlamad said:

Next, I would like to see where everyone places the start of the Day of the Lord, and WHY. 

 

 

On 8/22/2018 at 10:04 AM, iamlamad said:

Finally, where do people see the exact midpoint, and why.

 

These are one and the same !!

The Day of the Lord or Gods Wrath, begins when Jesus opens the first seal. God thus begins directing hostilities towards men on earth, He is giving them their hearts desire, a tyrants rule of law over Gods rule, just like He gave Israel a King when He didn't desire it. Rev. 6:16-17 tells us the inhabitants on earth understand they are in the Wrath of the Lamb/God (Jesus is God), but it never states the Wrath started with the 6th Seal, that is just some man or men's opinions. The Wrath started with the very first seal, the inhabitants on earth finally understand they are in the Wrath of God when the heavens above correlate with the Old Testament scriptures (and New Testament also), thus the sun and moon give not their lights. Thus the Day of the Lord starts when Jesus opens the first seal. We see at least 1.5 to 2 Billion people killed by this tyrant, the Anti-Christ/Beast, we see the ones who were Saints of God in the 5th Seal, under the Alter of God, awaiting Jesus' return where they can be raised and judged in Rev. 20:4, these reign with Christ 1000 years, per verse 20:4 they have to have been in the world when the Beast ruled, thus these are not Church Age Saints, they (we) are in Heaven, marrying the Lamb when this is going on on earth. 

So the Church is Raptured to Heaven to spend 7 years in the marriage chambers with Christ as is the Jewish tradition (7 days) of marriage. Then Israel are called unto Repentance before the Day of the Lord (Malachi 4:5-6) and thus God protects them for 1260 days. Thus Gods Wrath is not poured out on His people, UNLESS they do not heed/obey his voice and Flee unto Petra. As per the Christians who are killed, they became Christians AFTER the Rapture, thus they were shut out of the wedding just like Matthew 25 stipulates. They were the 5 foolish virgins who served God but had no oil (Holy Spirit) to find the way. Everything is designed around the Middle of the week.

God designed all of Revelation/end time eschatology around the midway point of the 70th week. All of us Christians are supposed to use this number to understand everything, instead we have managed to bring forth zillions of ideas, thereby confusing the masses in some cases, as per to what the Day of the Lord is, when it is, and even as pertaining to who brings it forth to meet out the judgments.  The Middle of the week is the beginning of the Day of the Lord, God designed everything around it where we can't misunderstand it, but yet many still don't sadly.

The Rapture is where the church goes to be with the Lord in the Marriage chambers (IN MY FATHERS HOUSE) in Heaven for 7 years representing the 7 days of a Jewish Wedding. The Marriage supper happens after we return with Jesus, its the Armageddon carnage. At EXACTLY the 1260 day point (Middle of the week) Jesus opens the First Seal and Gods Wrath on mankind is released. The Beast goes forth and kills 1.5 Billion to 2 billion people along with famine and pestilence. The Beast rules over Jerusalem and the Mediterranean Sea Region for 42 months, the Jews who Flee are protected for 42 months. The Two-witnesses witness for 1260 Days (42 months) but show up before the Beast does and thus dies before he does. 

On 8/22/2018 at 10:04 AM, iamlamad said:

 Next, where do people see the start of the 70th week and why.

 

Well the 70th week will start once the Gentile Church is Raptured. Thus 3.5 years later the Beast will be released to go forth and Conquer. 

1.) No Seals have been open nor will any be opened unto the Middle of the 70th week gets here. 

2.) The Wrath of God or the Day of the Lord is designed to be known, its in HUGH LETTERS SAYING, LOOK.....LOOK......LOOK......its the 1260 Event. 

Edited September 1, 2018 by Revelation Man

[Revelation Man]

On 8/22/2018 at 10:04 AM, iamlamad said:

Since Revelation already HAS an order, that is a chronology, I will not change it. I think the Holy Spirit knew and knows the sequence of events that is coming. Therefore, I believe any theory that must rearrange Revelation to work will immediately be suspect and in the end will be proven wrong. Further, I am convinced that it is the 70th week that is INSIDE the seals scroll, and that all 7 seals must be opened before the 70th week can begin. I see the 70th week then beginning with the 7th seal that allows the book to be opened. therefore the trumpets will come in the first half of the week. 

 

It surly has an order, and we just need to open our eyes to see it. Rev. 6 is the Middle of the Week (MoW), and since its the most important time in the book, many of the chapters are also seen as starting at this time also. Rev. 12, rev. 13, Rev. 17 and Rev. 18 all start in the Middle of the Week, Rev. 11 starts 75 days before the Middle of the week, the Two-witnesses have to bring Israel (the 1/3) unto Repentance BEFORE the Day of the Lord (MoW) begins. Rev. 19 covers the full 7 years that the Church is in Heaven basically. Rev. 14 covers the Rapture of the (Harvest) Church and the Armageddon Wine-press Harvest. 

Rev. chapters 1-3 is about the Church Age. Rev. 4 and 5 is the Church in Heaven, seen with White Raiment (Robes) on meaning the Rev. 19 Marriage has already taken place by this time. This is before the first seal is opened by Jesus in Rev. ch 6.

THE DAY OF THE LORD JUDGMENTS !!!

Rev. ch. 6 is the Middle of the week chapter. Jesus opens the seal, then the Anti-Christ (White horse rider represents Conquering) goes forth Conquering. The Red horse, Black horse and Pale Green horse are all the same person, the Anti-Christ/Beast. He is the one that chases Israel into the Wilderness in Revelation ch. 12, the Dragon can't do it per se, hes a Demon Spirit, he uses men. So Rev. 12 is the Middle of the week. In Rev. 13, the Beast arises out of the Sea in the Middle of the Week !! He comes to power and Rules for 42 Months (1260 days). How can people not see how God designed all of Rev. 12 around this 1260 event ? 

Rev. 7 is Israel Fleeing and God protecting ALL Israel, {144,000 All Israel} before the Trumpet Judgments start. Then we see the Raptured Bride one last time in Heaven, the Church that came out of the 2000 year (Great Tribulation) Tribulation period is seen in Rev. 7:9-17. 

Rev. 8 are the Trumpet Judgments, and Rev. 9 are two of the Woes, then the 3rd Woe is seen in Rev. 16, its All SEVEN VIALS, just like the 7th Seal is All SEVEN TRUMPETS (Think Symmetry). Rev. 16 ends Satan's reign on earth, Jesus takes over the deed once again. 

Rev. 20, Satan is locked in the pit for 1000 years and those Beheaded under the Alter are JUDGED, the ones Jesus gave White robes to and told them to wait. Rev. 21 and 22 is the ever-after and New Jerusalem. No other chapters are a part of the Chronological order of Revelation.  

The Visions that reveal events not spoken of in the Chronological order of the book of Revelation.

Rev. 11 is about the Two-witnesses 1260 day Ministry. God gave it this exact length so we could juxtapose it against the Beasts 42 Month (1260 days) rule. Thus they show up before the Beast to turn Israel unto God, and they also die before the Beast dies. Its a pretty easy understanding to be honest. But since Revelation "HAS TO BE" in order that can't be right, even though it is !! The Two-witnesses die before the Beast, IF both have 1260 days in their office so to speak then if one dies first, then he must also show up first, a 5th grader taking out preconceived prejudices could get that in 3 seconds. 

Rev. 12 is also simple, its about the Anti-Christ chasing the Jews (Israel or the Woman) into the Wilderness where Gd protects her for 1260 days.

Rev. 13 is the Beast arising in the Mediterranean Sea, thus he becomes a Beast over Israel AND the MANY in the whole region, just like all the Beasts were.

Rev. 14 is about the RAPTURE Harvest on a Cloud by Jesus and the Wine-press Harvest of the Wicked on earth at Armageddon. 

Rev. 17 is the Kings in league with the Beast destroying ALL RELIGIONS thus the Harlot (All False Religion) is destroyed, that happens in Rev. ch. 6.

Rev. 18 is Babylon (Whole World) getting hit with Gods Plagues, the Seal, Trumpet and Vial Plagues !! It starts at the first Seal and ends at the 7th Vial.

Rev. 19 covers the Marriage of the Church/Bride unto the Lamb, in Heaven. 

Its VERY CLEAR that Rev. 12, 13, 17 and 18 start in the Middle of the Week. Its VERY CLEAR that Rev. 11 starts before Rev. 6, as does Rev. ch. 19. And Rev. 14 is the Rapture Harvest and the Wine-press Harvest of the Wicked. 

 

[Gibbus]

9 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

Daniel, the Old Testament version of Revelation as per the End Time Beasts, the Time, times and half time etc. etc. is also not in Chronological order. So Revelation doesn't have to be either right ?

The book of Daniel is actually put together thematically, in two distinct parts: 1) Life in Babylon 2) Prophetic Visions. The time frame of these sections overlap  one another. For instance Chapter 6 takes places near the end of Daniel’s life, whereas Chapter 7 takes place nearly 20 years earlier.

As we look at the time line, it’s important to note that Daniel began his time in Babylon serving in Nebuchadnezzar’s court but ends up serving under Darius the Mede. The Medo-Persians took over Babylon in 539 BC, which is only explicitly mentioned in Daniel 5:30-31. Here is a simple key of the kings in Daniel:

1. Nebuchadnezzar – King of Babylon (605–562 BC)

2. Belshazzar – Grandson of Nebuchadnezzar, Co-Regent of Babylon with his father Nabonidus (553-539 BC)

3. Darius – Governor of Babylon under Cyrus (~539 – 530 BC) 

4. Cyrus – King of Persia (559 – 530 BC)

I. SECTION 1 – CHAPTER 1-6, LIFE IN BABYLON FROM 606BC – 534BC

A. THREE DRAMATIC CHARACTER DISPLAYS

Chapter 1 – Refuses King’s Delicacies, 605 BC under Nebuchadnezzar

Chapter 3 – Golden Statue/Fiery Furnace, 587 BC under Nebuchadnezzar

Chapter 6 – Prays/Lion’s Den, 538~534 BC under Darius

B. TWO DREAM INTERPRETATIONS FOR NEBUCHADNEZZAR

Chapter 2 – Great Golden Image, 603 BC

Chapter 4 – Nebuchadnezzar’s Judgment, 571 – 562 BC

C. ONE VISION INTERPRETATION FOR BELSHAZZAR

Chapter 5 – Writing on the Wall, 539 BC

II. SECTION 2 – CHAPTER 7-12, PROPHETIC VISIONS FROM 553BC-533BC

A. TWO PROPHETIC VISIONS W/ANGELIC INTERPRETATIONS

Chapter 7 – 4 Beasts, Little Horn, Ancient of Days, 553 BC

Chapter 8 – Ram and the Goat, 551 BC

B. TWO ANGELIC VISITATIONS

Chapter 9 – Seventy Weeks, 539 BC

Chapter 10 – 12 – King of the North and King of the South to 1335 days, ~534 BC

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So if Daniel is not in Chronological order, why does Revelation have to be in order? What you guys do is limit yourselves or box yourselves into a corner that you can't get out of. I think Revelation is a lot like Daniel: 1.) Life on earth via the Church, from the Church to the Second Coming of Jesus Christ. 2.) Then we get Prophetic Visions. Of course they overlap, and of course the Life on earth partly has to be Visions also, because it was future to John, but its meant to be "Real time visions as per the Chronological order" followed by Prophetic Visions of events not meant to be seen as a part of the order of the book of Rev. 

I will answer the other questions in another post, this was mostly meant to show Revelation, like Daniel, doesn't have to be in Chronological order at all for it to be factual. As a matter of fact, God wanting to keep His secrets hidden until the end might have so desired it to be done this way on purpose !! 

The 1260 is the Key to Revelation, once we understand that is when the DOTL or Gods Wrath starts, we can then understand the whole book on a much deeper level. We can then understand all of the time-lines. 

 

(History is very "willfully ignorant", most of those claims are invalid)

(Pharoah) Cleopatra VII, died 30 B.C. (Spouse a Roman) Mark Anthony, died 30 B.C.

History does not know when Jesus rose for "40 Days", following the Gospel's Argument, the best literal answer is 30 A.D. ....................... Now suppose history is a straight liar, and that unclean marriage in Egypt ended in 30 A.D. and not 30 B.C.

History is already a "straight liar", with the exodus and birth of jesus (some other things, actually, many things) ................. information spreads quicker today, so its harder to perform that kind of behavior without being readily exposed.  With that said..................

 

("Straight Liar", Correction, Maybe)

62 Weeks, in Days 434, total = 496

69 Weeks, in Days 483, total = 552

70 Weeks, in Days 490, total = 560

.....................

70 + 483 = 553

Belshazzar – Grandson of Nebuchadnezzar, Co-Regent of Babylon with his father Nabonidus (553-539 BC) .................... 14 Years (Notice the Total Difference between these figures of "496 and 552 = 6", and "552 and 560 = 8" = 14 ...................... I think, History is too inaccurate, but the reality is, multiples of Daniel's Figures did provide a literal date for the Fall of Babylon to the Medes and the Persians. (We can perhaps say that God blinded the sin of man, in affording corruptible accounts, just enough, for us to make the association ..................... right now information spreads very quickly so we don't have to worry about that same kind of problem).

.....................

1260 / 42 Months, is all God regurgitates in revelation we can tie to Daniel

Flight 370 in 2014 + 42 Months + 42 Months = 2024

Legally,  there is nothing stopping this argument from being effective, because we can view Flight 370 as a "Sign" ............. that said ............... Flight 370 is only "one of many signs", and if we just view that one piece of information, we cannot collaborate all of the gospel's figures it ties to the, Revelation ... "From Daniel, to the Generations of Matthew and Luke, to the Revelation".

The conclusion in itself is not wrong, it is just not more complete, and for that reason if there is a legal argument at all, and there is many, then we need to keep watch.  So there are many dates for the end, many sequences that are not fulfilled, or perhaps, more "signs" are needed. (77 Years from Roswell to 2024 A.D., the figure is not isolated, but  there's more information).

 

EDIT (The Problem is no clear connection to a "Sign", so it has no priority)

Comet Halley is significant sure, but the "Sign from God" = Roswell UFO, which has priority.  Together these form one "Solid Answer".  Every other fact surrounds that, nothing I've see so far modifies the length to 2066 A.D. (That means everything else so far, falls in multiples, that falls in that conclusion).

*Revelation uses  "1260", but I can also say this:

Flight 370 and 1260 Days to 8/19/2017 + 636 Days to 5/11/2019

........................"Sign from God", and "Astrological Sign"=Correction.................

Flight 370 and 1290 Days to 9/18/2017 + 666 Days to 7/16/2019

(You have a "sign from god", then, "jupiter alignment", and finally, the "helical rising of sirius" ................ God uses 1260/1290 and 636/666 interchangeably, that is why 1260 is connected to the book of daniel, its a snare for those not keeping watch)

.....................

.....................

Comet Elenin = "not necessarily a, sign from god"

Halley Comet = "not necessarily a, sign from god"

Jupiter Alignment 9/23/2017 // Galactic Alignment // Uranus Pluto Square 2018

All of the Above are = "not necessarily a, sign from god"

.....................

.....................

What is a "Sign from God" and what does it mean?

1260/1290 is Unique, used in both "Daniel and Revelation", is that Important?

9/11/2001 Falling Man Moses // 2019 A.D. // 2066 A.D.

(the "sign from god", immediately validates this conclusion, no contest, no controversy, additional information follows the total length to 2066 A.D.)

..........................

1260/1290 and 636/666, used in Dual Numbers in Revelation Only*, is that important?

Flight 370 + 1290 Days and 636 Days = 1926 Days = 6/16/2019

("616" was written by one of the Apostles in disputing with John during the writing of the Book of Revelation, that is why, it is recorded as the value for "636/666",  God appointed Matthias not to replace Jesus, but to reveal something very important, that Jesus wanted represented)

 

I made the Legal Claim

That Jesus on the Cross talked about the 3rd/6th/9th/11th Hours:

3rd = March for Flight 370

6th = Trumpets for Abomination of Desolation (reveals the Vials) June

9th = September for 9/11/2001 (SEALS Completed)

11th = November in 2066 A.D. to begin 153 Days

 

(God gave us two signs one on 9/11/2001 and one on 3/8/2014 (Flight 370) .................. we don't need any more information, none at all to understand when the Lord will Return ................... God decided 2001 and 2014 was important, but, its applicability to the figures of Daniel, lead me to expound on Halley's Comet, and Comet Elenin, and more, but a "sign from god", modifies all values, changes all dates and gives us a clear and concise answer for his return)

(Euthanasia this week was effective, and, we'll do this again soon, perhaps next week, the need of those kinds of people to keep hurting me, will eventually be passed on to you, until you'll have to decide to follow in what is illustrated, or, suffer greatly for a very long period of time) (Moses is not a "Levite" he is, in the line of Joseph, that is why he was choosen to become the "King of the Jews" when they were delivered out of Egypt ................... I pray until you die globally, stated for Moses, cannot be legal unless Moses is entirely an Angel of God and therefore God, but if Moses is in the line of Joseph, then he is a representative for Jesus at best, and he is ministered to by the Angels, that is a big difference, one that will be resolved in 2019) (Jesus is the most important figure, but, God uses a "Sign" to remind us of the origins of the Gospel's Law) (Celestial Arguments are at best only supporting evidence, some truth by not the baseline)

Edited September 1, 2018 by Gibbus

[n2thelight]

On 8/22/2018 at 11:04 AM, iamlamad said:

I hope all the participants here know, Revelation is written in an order. Since John numbered so many things for sequencing, why would anyone suppose it is OUT of order? 

As I read it, Jesus  begins this book right where John was at the time, around 95 AD.  In chapter 21, we see John is beyond the thousand year reign of Christ, so far far into our future today.  It just makes sense then that somewhere between chapters 1 and chapters 21, is where the church is TODAY. 

I hope then that all the writers here will show us where they perceive the church is today in the book of Revelation. I am not interested in preterist thought - only those that believe much of Revelation is still future need answer. 

 

Next, I would like to see where everyone places the start of the Day of the Lord, and WHY. 

Next, where do people see the start of the 70th week and why.

Finally, where do people see the exact midpoint, and why.

Since Revelation already HAS an order, that is a chronology, I will not change it. I think the Holy Spirit knew and knows the sequence of events that is coming. Therefore, I believe any theory that must rearrange Revelation to work will immediately be suspect and in the end will be proven wrong. Further, I am convinced that it is the 70th week that is INSIDE the seals scroll, and that all 7 seals must be opened before the 70th week can begin. I see the 70th week then beginning with the 7th seal that allows the book to be opened. therefore the trumpets will come in the first half of the week. 

With that said, John TELLS US where the Day of the Lord, or the Day of His wrath begins: right at the 6th seal. 

Next, I see the 70th week beginning right at the 7th seal, and I see the midpoint right at the 7th trumpet. I see the week end at the 7th vial. therefore the entire week is marked by 7's. 

I find it amusing that people imagine they can move events around (rearranging) revelation to fit a theory. I think it would be far wiser to create a theory from the book AS WRITTEN. I find such a theory fits all end times scriptures.

It's not in order

Revelation 1:10 "I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,"

This verse is the key to understanding the book of Revelation. Without a clear and full understanding of it, the entire book just will not make sense. The sequence of order will seem strange.

"I"; this is John speaking and telling us where he was. "I was in the Spirit", not in his flesh body; "on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet". John is taken forward in time, "in the Spirit", to the day of the Lord. The "Day of the Lord" is not referring to Sunday or Saturday. This is the same "Day of the Lord" Paul speaks about in I Thessalonians 5:2, as "coming as a thief in the night". Later in II Thessalonians 2:2-3 Paul makes it clear that at the "Day of the Lord" Christ's return will not happen until "after there will be a great falling away first; and "that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition". Satan must be revealed in his role as the Antichrist first, before that seventh trumpet can sound, the last trumpet.

The time, or day, John was taken to was beyond our time frame, however we are living in the generation that will see it come to pass, and live through what John saw and lived, while in the Spirit. There is only one day that is called "The Day of the Lord" in all the Scriptures.

Isaiah 2:12 "For the day of the Lord of hosts shall be upon every one that is proud and lofty, and upon every one that is lifted up; and he shall be brought low."

This is the day that our Lord returns. This is the day "God's cup of wrath" is poured out upon His enemies. So John was taken in the Spirit to the last day of this earth age, before the start of the age of the Millennium. If you are still in your flesh body, that day hasn't happened yet, and it is still future to us.

Every verse that you read in Revelation from this verse to the end of chapter twenty two, will be viewed from the Lord's day, either looking backwards or forwards a short period of time. If you don't come to that point of time in your understanding with John, the rest of what he is saying just will not make sense.