Why so much disagreement on the start of THE DAY?

[Alan Hales]

2 hours ago, n2thelight said:

Why do you seperate the Jew's from the Church?How can you say the Church will be gone when Christ Himself says He comes AFTER the tribulation?

It's only 2 choices,Christ or satan,been that way since the two tree's in the Garden you belong to one or the other,period,don't care who you are.....

Do you think Christ can't protect His own when all hell is breaking loose?Did He not give you the example with the Hebrews and the blood on the door post?

You either will have the seal of God or you will take the mark of satan

Since only Christians can be deceived,who will be?

Jesus is physically coming back to earth reign after the tribulation period, But He is coming In the AIR to take all born again believers to heaven.

At the pre-trib rapture, The Church goes to heaven. Jn 14: 1--3. 1 Thes 4: 17. And when Jesus comes back physically after the tribulation, The Church comes back with Him, Zechariah 14: 5.  1 Thess 2: 19. Rev 19: 14.

 

God will only protect those who take our God given authority over the devil. Matt 16: 19. Lk  10: 17--20. James 4: 7. 1 Pet 5: 8--9. 

And Jesus is coming back for a glorious and powerful Church, That's why 2 The 2: 1--8 says the Church has to go before the man of sins.

[The Ant-Christ] can come. If the devil couldn't deal with ONE Jesus, How is he going to handle millions who are just like Jesus??, He can't, that why the Church HAS to go before he can come.  Why do you want to tribulate, When Jesus said we won't go through the tribulation period??. 

[n2thelight]

3 minutes ago, Alan Hales said:

Jesus is physically coming back to earth reign after the tribulation period, But He is coming In the AIR to take all born again believers to heaven.

At the pre-trib rapture, The Church goes to heaven. Jn 14: 1--3. 1 Thes 4: 17. And when Jesus comes back physically after the tribulation, The Church comes back with Him, Zechariah 14: 5.  1 Thess 2: 19. Rev 19: 14.

 

God will only protect those who take our God given authority over the devil. Matt 16: 19. Lk  10: 17--20. James 4: 7. 1 Pet 5: 8--9. 

And Jesus is coming back for a glorious and powerful Church, That's why 2 The 2: 1--8 says the Church has to go before the man of sins.

[The Ant-Christ] can come. If the devil couldn't deal with ONE Jesus, How is he going to handle millions who are just like Jesus??, He can't, that why the Church HAS to go before he can come.  Why do you want to tribulate, When Jesus said we won't go through the tribulation period??. 

The man of sin must be revealed first,scripture is very clear on that.The tribulation is that of satan ,in which Christ clearly states He comes after.

There is no verse in all of scripture that says Christ takes us to heaven 

[Alan Hales]

34 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

The only reason you say that is because you don't know the truth, and your preconceived glasses won't allow you to read the scriptures as they really are.  Perhaps you just wish YOU would hear the voice of our Lord. The truth is, He expects us ALL to hear: "my sheep know my voice and they hear me and follow me." 

If I could take a guess, I would guess you have bypassed Acts 1 and 2 in your Christian walk. You probably could not ask the same question Paul was very comfortable in asking: look it up, Acts 19:2.

Do you know there is a huge difference in the Holy Spirit within and the Holy Spirit on or upon? 

Finally, we are supposedly brothers in Christ. I KNOW I am in Christ. I suppose you are too. Therefore we should have love one for another. 

I know every born again Christian has the Holy Spirit in them through the rebirth, And I know the Holy Spirit comes on a person to Anoint them for their Ministries.

Unlike you, I do know the Biblical truths.

[Alan Hales]

23 minutes ago, n2thelight said:

The man of sin must be revealed first,scripture is very clear on that.The tribulation is that of satan ,in which Christ clearly states He comes after.

There is no verse in all of scripture that says Christ takes us to heaven 

I have given you scriptures that say Jesus comes to take His people to heaven, What's wrong with you?.

Show me where the Bible says the man of sin must come before the Church is raptured. Both Jesus and Paul said the Church won't be on earth at that time.

[iamlamad]

1 hour ago, Alan Hales said:

I know every born again Christian has the Holy Spirit in them through the rebirth, And I know the Holy Spirit comes on a person to Anoint them for their Ministries.

Unlike you, I do know the Biblical truths.

Good for you! You answered well. That is, except for your uncalled for slander. 

[iamlamad]

1 hour ago, n2thelight said:

The man of sin must be revealed first,scripture is very clear on that.The tribulation is that of satan ,in which Christ clearly states He comes after.

There is no verse in all of scripture that says Christ takes us to heaven 

Please make this clear to all the readers: "first" before WHAT? 

Next, tell us when, during the 70th week that Satan's anger will be felt.

Tell us when during the 70th week the vials of God's wrath will be poured, in relation to Satan's wrath.

[iamlamad]

1 hour ago, n2thelight said:

Yes it is all in timing,satan comes first,pretending to be Christ,that's the deception, like scripture says you will have the mark or the seal.

He can't touch the saints,and when he does,ie,the two witnesses, Christ returns,3 1/2 days later. 

Not a theory so I'm not worried at all.

"like the scripture says" but then you write what the scriptures DON'T say!  Sorry, but Gentiles don't get sealed for protection - that is IF you are talking about that seal - the one the 144,000 get. 

He can't touch the saints  Wow! Exact opposite of what is written! Both Daniel and Revelation tell us the saints WILL BE overcome. 

when he does,ie,the two witnesses, Christ returns,3 1/2 days later.   WOW! You seem to be the very first person (other than me) that understands the two witnesses testify in the second half of the week! Congratulations!  However, you have missed that Jesus will NOT return at the 7th vial that ends the week. Sorry, but the events of chapters 17 and 18 and the first half of 19 will take place AFTER the 7th vial, but before He comes.

[JoeCanada]

On 9/9/2018 at 7:22 PM, iamlamad said:

Ok, then show us the verse. If He was there, show us. While you are at it, please explain to us WHY Jesus was not found worthy to open the seals in that first search John watched - the one that ended in failure so John wrote, "no man was found."

 

I hope you understand, when Jesus took on flesh, He laid aside his omnipresence attribute! With a human body, He could only be in one place at one time - and that was on earth!

(Don't misunderstand! While Jesus was limited, the Holy Spirit and God the father were not.)

Hi iamlamad,

You keep saying that Jesus was not there, because they 'couldn't' find anyone worthy to open the scroll.

But Jesus WAS there. 

 WHO was it that sat on the throne?

Rev 4:2-3......" .....and behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne. And He that sat was to look upon like jasper and a sardine stone, and there was a rainbow round about the throne, in sight like unto an emerald"

Can you see what John saw. 

An absolute spectacle. Brilliance. He could only describe it like jasper and sardine stone, and like an emerald. John could not see Him that sat on the throne because of the dazzling brilliance.

In Rev 4:8.......the four beasts saying.......'Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come.'

WHO is it that 'is to come?'........Rev 20:20......"He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Even so, come, Lord Jesus"

Rev 4:11.....the 24 elders saying......"Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honor and power; for Thou has created all things, and for Thy pleasure they are and were created"

Who is the creator?.....John 1:1-3....." In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by Him, and without Him, was not anything made that was made"

Since there were no chapter breaks in scripture, (they are there for us for reference), 

John continues on......"And I saw in the right hand of Him that sat on the throne....."

So, WHO was it that sat on the throne?

 

 

 

 

 

[iamlamad]

6 hours ago, JoeCanada said:

Hi iamlamad,

You keep saying that Jesus was not there, because they 'couldn't' find anyone worthy to open the scroll.

But Jesus WAS there. 

 WHO was it that sat on the throne?

Rev 4:2-3......" .....and behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne. And He that sat was to look upon like jasper and a sardine stone, and there was a rainbow round about the throne, in sight like unto an emerald"

Can you see what John saw. 

An absolute spectacle. Brilliance. He could only describe it like jasper and sardine stone, and like an emerald. John could not see Him that sat on the throne because of the dazzling brilliance.

In Rev 4:8.......the four beasts saying.......'Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come.'

WHO is it that 'is to come?'........Rev 20:20......"He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Even so, come, Lord Jesus"

Rev 4:11.....the 24 elders saying......"Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honor and power; for Thou has created all things, and for Thy pleasure they are and were created"

Who is the creator?.....John 1:1-3....." In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by Him, and without Him, was not anything made that was made"

Since there were no chapter breaks in scripture, (they are there for us for reference), 

John continues on......"And I saw in the right hand of Him that sat on the throne....."

So, WHO was it that sat on the throne?

Acts 7:55

But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God,

 

Romans 8:34

Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

 

Ephesians 1:20

Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,

 

Colossians 3:1

If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.

 

Hebrews 1:3

Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:

 

Hebrews 8:1

Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens;

 

Hebrews 10:12

But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;

 

That should be sufficient. God the Father sits on the throne. Jesus sits at His right hand. We have a dozen verses telling us this. 

 

Sorry, but during the 32 years Jesus was on earth, HE WAS NOT IN HEAVEN. This is a simple concept! It is not difficult at all. Jesus was NOT SEEN in the throne room in chapter 4, not because John just did not happen to see him, but because HE WAS NOT THERE.  He was on the earth.

 

For further proof, He was NOT found in that first search John watched.  WHY was He not found? It is simple: it was TIMING: He had not yet risen from the dead. The moment He rose from the dead to become the Redeemer, He was found worthy. 

 

For further proof, He suddenly appeared in the throne room where He was not a moment before. And at that moment the Holy Spirit was sent down - exactly as He said He would do. 

 

¹⁰ The four and twenty elders fall down before him that sat on the throne, and worship him that liveth for ever and ever, and cast their crowns before the throne, saying,

¹¹ Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

They are talking to the One seated on the throne - our Father who art in heaven. You forget, they are ONE. Father God was just as involved in the creation as Jesus and as the Holy Spirit. God the Father was the WILL of creation, while Jesus was the WORDS of creation, and the Holy Spirit was the POWER of the creation.  

Please notice in none of these verses in chapter 4 do we read of anyone at the right hand of the Father -a and for good reason: Jesus was on the earth.  John SAW the One seated on the throne. Without a doubt, not clearly, but a form within spectacular brightness. It was not too bright for Stephen to see both of them!

Just for another witness:

 

⁶ And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.

⁷ And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne.

WHO came? And WHO was on the throne? The FATHER was on the throne, but the SON came and took the book from the Father's right hand. 

[n2thelight]

14 hours ago, Alan Hales said:

I have given you scriptures that say Jesus comes to take His people to heaven, What's wrong with you?.

Show me where the Bible says the man of sin must come before the Church is raptured. Both Jesus and Paul said the Church won't be on earth at that time.

II Thessalonians 2:3 "Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come , except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;"

What day will not come?