What Paul Says

[LadyKay]

So in another thread, I was accused of behaving like a cheery picking liberal Christian and of not believing that what Paul says is applicable to follow in today's world.  So I wanted to get some feed back about a passage that Paul wrote in 1 Corinthians.   Which says: 

   Women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the law says.  If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church. 1 Corinthians 14:34-35

 I myself do not know of any church that completely follows this passage of scripture. If you attend a church that dose follow this completely, or you yourself follow it ? How is it carried out?   Are all the women in your church silent not allowed to speak at all? As Paul seems to be saying here? How dose that work?  Also I don't understand what Paul means here by saying "as the law says". I thought that when Christ died, we were free from following "the Law".  What law is Paul referring to here? 

So anyway, I welcome your feedback on this and I will not try to do anything to change your mind on your thoughts about this passage. Though I may pop in a comment here and there.  

Edited November 29, 2018 by LadyKay

[Justin Adams]

I await with interest the various thoughts on this matter. As a male chauvinist, as I have been labeled from time to time, I will eagerly await the feminist barrage that is sure to ensue. The fact that many weak and new believers will read this along with many 'die-hards' only leads us to ponder what was really meant.

My own views are quite private on this matter.

[Dennis1209]

I'll give you my perspective and it's not meant to offend.

The trinity and heavenly host is always referred to in the masculine sense. In the beginning, Adam was created by God by material mold from the dust of the Earth, created in God's image, and given the breath of life. Eve not so. Eve was deceived by Satan and ate of "the tree of knowledge of good and evil", Adam was not deceived and knew fully well what he was doing. We're not told why, but I have my own speculations. 

The Lord appointed a hierarchy and submission; women over children, men over women, and Christ over man. There's a long time phrase that today is offensive, "women should be seen and not heard". Man was appointed head over the family (head of household), and Christ over the family, which still is applicable in today's modern society. Christ's church is a family of believers. Men are to be held responsible and accountable for there decisions, families needs and protection.

Jesus didn't select any woman as apostles for a reason. 

Free from the law: Are the "ten commandments" null and void today? What about tithing, etc.? When Christ died on the Cross the vail rent, meaning we now have direct access to the throne of God and are covered by the blood of the Lamb. Animal sacrifice and the associated rituals are done away with. 

[other one]

Gal 3:23-29

23 But before faith came, we were kept in custody under the law, being shut up to the faith which was later to be revealed. 24 Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, that we may be justified by faith. 25 But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor. 26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise. 
NASB
 

Paul's letters to the churches were usually due to serious problems within the church.    Corinth had some serious problems within the church and Paul was giving orders on how to resolve their problems.    Not every verse in the Bible is written to everyone.

[Dennis1209]

33 minutes ago, Justin Adams said:

I await with interest the various thoughts on this matter. As a male chauvinist, as I have been labeled from time to time, I will eagerly await the feminist barrage that is sure to ensue. The fact that many weak and new believers will read this along with many 'die-hards' only leads us to ponder what was really meant.

My own views are quite private on this matter.

Me too! Especially from my wife whom I label a Feminazi  ?

[other one]

Just now, Dennis1209 said:

Me too! Especially from my wife whom I label a Feminazi  ?

I am so sorry for you....    LoL     One of my best friends is married to a Feminazi and she's interesting to deal with.

 

Just a guess on my part but it is possible that the Church in Corinth was plagued with them and Paul was putting rules in place to keep the Church together.....   not necessarily meant for Churches everywhere.

 

[Heleadethme]

1 hour ago, LadyKay said:

So in another thread, I was accused of behaving like a cheery picking liberal Christian and of not believing that what Paul says is applicable to follow in today's world.  So I wanted to get some feed back about a passage that Paul wrote in 1 Corinthians.   Which says: 

   Women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the law says.  If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church. 1 Corinthians 14:34-35

 I myself do not know of any church that completely follows this passage of scripture. If you attend a church that dose follow this completely, or you yourself follow it ? How is it carried out?   Are all the women in your church silent not allowed to speak at all? As Paul seems to be saying here? How dose that work?  Also I don't understand what Paul means here by saying "as the law says". I thought that when Christ died, we were free from following "the Law".  What law is Paul referring to here? 

So anyway, I welcome your feedback on this and I will not try to do anything to change your mind on your thoughts about this passage. Though I may pop in a comment here and there.  

I believe that what Paul said needs to be rightly divided.....since he also said that when women pray or prophesy they need to wear a headcovering in the church as a sign of authority on their heads.  Women are not to usurp authority over the men......the men are to lead the gatherings and oversee if a woman is being led by the Spirit to contribute something.  Meeting together as the church to worship and pray and focus on the Lord is not the time for women's social chatter or asking and debating of endless questions.....that would be irreverent and disruptive....it would disgrace what should be worshipful and prayerful proceedings......personally that's the sense I have of what Paul was trying to address here.  That the women are to be under authority and submissive to what is going on as led by the men, following the proceedings as led by the men, and not trying to carry on their own thing at the same time or take the meeting off course.

[LadyKay]

16 minutes ago, Dennis1209 said:

"women should be seen and not heard".

No on has ever said that to me before. And if they did I would look like this. 

[Dennis1209]

5 minutes ago, LadyKay said:

No on has ever said that to me before. And if they did I would look like this. 

They have... It just takes time at the speed of light to reach a Galaxy Far Far Away. Based on your location, you didn't expect priority 3 day delivery or overnight did you?  ?

Edited November 29, 2018 by Dennis1209

[Guest shiloh357]

1 hour ago, LadyKay said:

So in another thread, I was accused of behaving like a cheery picking liberal Christian and of not believing that what Paul says is applicable to follow in today's world.  So I wanted to get some feed back about a passage that Paul wrote in 1 Corinthians.   Which says: 

   Women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the law says.  If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church. 1 Corinthians 14:34-35

 I myself do not know of any church that completely follows this passage of scripture. If you attend a church that dose follow this completely, or you yourself follow it ? How is it carried out?   Are all the women in your church silent not allowed to speak at all? As Paul seems to be saying here? How dose that work?  Also I don't understand what Paul means here by saying "as the law says". I thought that when Christ died, we were free from following "the Law".  What law is Paul referring to here? 

So anyway, I welcome your feedback on this and I will not try to do anything to change your mind on your thoughts about this passage. Though I may pop in a comment here and there.  

Paul, in I Corinthians was dealing with women who were getting saved out of the mystery cults like the Oracles of Delphi near Corinth, as well as in other places such as the cult Diana in Ephesus and the Oracles of the Dead in Baiae, Italy.   But Delphi would be the one closest to Corinth.

These women were priestesses who would supposedly come under the influence of the "gods" and "prophesy in gibberish and a male priest of the oracles would "interpret" her words for the person who had come to the oracles to enquire of the "gods."   

They were evidently trying to use this gibberish when people in the congregation were prophesying in tongues and it was disruptive.  New believers were constantly trying to bring their old pagan customs into the church (like getting drunk at the Lord's Supper).    So it is fitting that in a chapter that is dealing with speaking in tongues, that Paul would address this issue with the women from the mystery cults trying to employ their old craft in the worship of the Lord.   That is why Paul was wanting them to remain silent.  

And yes, they were to submit to their husbands.  The Law had placed man as the head of the family.  He is not superior to the wife, but there is simply an operational structure to the family that God ordained for men and women adhere to.  

It was disgraceful for these women who had gotten saved out of mystery cults to speak in gibberish and attempt to counterfeit the gift of speaking in tongues.

It has to be understood in the unique context of the chapter and the culture/history that flavors the text.