Will God Forgive Us If We're Wrong About The Trinity

[patrick jane]

Praise Jesus !!! Thank you all for the excellent replies. I realize there are likely numerous Trinity threads and I made a decision to stop engaging in heated debates over the complexity of God. I found early on that I could not convince a Non-Trinity believer to change their mind. I tried for years and I can only plant seeds. I also concluded in my own mind that God will understand if we don't get everything right. I try to follow the two Great Commandments and the 10 of course, but I can always do better.

[Jostler]

23 minutes ago, patrick jane said:

Praise Jesus !!! Thank you all for the excellent replies. I realize there are likely numerous Trinity threads and I made a decision to stop engaging in heated debates over the complexity of God. I found early on that I could not convince a Non-Trinity believer to change their mind. I tried for years and I can only plant seeds. I also concluded in my own mind that God will understand if we don't get everything right. I try to follow the two Great Commandments and the 10 of course, but I can always do better.

I tend to agree.  I think it's important, but He'll still save someone who doesn't have a full understanding of the Trinity...i don't think any of us have a full revelation of that anyway   I know some people that don't think the Holy Spirit is a person too   And they love Jesus....I'm happy to leave the details between He and them

[Isaacsname]

If you had all the answers faith would not be required

 

[Willa]

We are told that the unforgivable sin is blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.    

However, I get concerned when people don't believe the Bible is God's word or inspired, and pray to their dead relatives that speak to them when they have problems, but think they worship the same God I worship.  It becomes necessary at some point to describe or define the God we worship as opposed to those of other religions or cults.  

 

[johnthebaptist]

On 3/28/2019 at 9:01 PM, patrick jane said:

I ask this because I run other forums and we have quite a few people that do not accept the doctrine of the trinity. I have seen Christians tell other Christians they are going to hell if the don't believe that the Lord Jesus Christ is God. I believe He is but what if I'm wrong. Are we expected to understand the concept and the nature of our Triune God? What do you see and hear on this topic and what are your beliefs?

I have been insulted on other forums because I believe in one God who simultaneously is a Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. This is the first time I've spoken on this topic on this website. To answer your question, the Lord is motivated only by love. 

[WilliamL]

On 3/28/2019 at 10:01 PM, patrick jane said:

I run other forums and we have quite a few people that do not accept the doctrine of the trinity.

Huh! And yet the same people would have no problem at all believing that Man is body and soul and spirit. Go figure.

Bing bing bing bing! You win the prize for eliciting my 2000th post. Your check in is the mail.

Edited April 1, 2019 by WilliamL

[Retrobyter]

On 3/29/2019 at 12:01 AM, patrick jane said:

I ask this because I run other forums and we have quite a few people that do not accept the doctrine of the trinity. I have seen Christians tell other Christians they are going to hell if the don't believe that the Lord Jesus Christ is God. I believe He is but what if I'm wrong. Are we expected to understand the concept and the nature of our Triune God? What do you see and hear on this topic and what are your beliefs?

Shalom, patrick jane.

What's wrong with calling Yeshua` what the Bible calls Him, a.k.a., "the SON of God?!" Just keep it at that! If Trinitarians want to think that means that He is God, that's fine. If non-Trinitarians want to think that means He is other than His Father, God, that's fine, too!

As far as "going to hell," I assume they are saying that one would be going to the Lake of Burning Sulfur, but isn't GOD HIMSELF the One who justifies an individual and calls him/her "righteous?" Doesn't what HE says, goes?! And, we STILL have Yeshua`s words in either case:

John 5:19-30 (KJV)

19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them (the Jews),

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise. 20 For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things that himself doeth: and he (the Father) will shew him (the Son) greater works than these, that ye may marvel. 21 For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth (raises to life) whom he will. 22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: 23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live. 26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself; 27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man. 28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me."

[Retrobyter]

On 3/29/2019 at 1:17 AM, missmuffet said:

The Holy Trinity is at the center of the Christian faith. The word "Trinity" is not in the Bible but the concept is. I do not think a Christian should give the words of the Holy Bible their own meaning.

1) There is one God (Deuteronomy 6:4; 1 Corinthians 8:4; Galatians 3:20; 1 Timothy 2:5).

2) The Trinity consists of three Persons (Genesis 1:1, 26; 3:22; 11:7; Isaiah 6:8, 48:16, 61:1; Matthew 3:16-17, 28:19; 2 Corinthians 13:14). In Genesis 1:1, the Hebrew plural noun "Elohim" is used. In Genesis 1:26, 3:22, 11:7 and Isaiah 6:8, the plural pronoun for “us” is used. The word "Elohim" and the pronoun “us” are plural forms, definitely referring in the Hebrew language to more than two. While this is not an explicit argument for the Trinity, it does denote the aspect of plurality in God. The Hebrew word for "God," "Elohim," definitely allows for the Trinity.

In Isaiah 48:16 and 61:1, the Son is speaking while making reference to the Father and the Holy Spirit. Compare Isaiah 61:1 to Luke 4:14-19 to see that it is the Son speaking. Matthew 3:16-17 describes the event of Jesus' baptism. Seen in this passage is God the Holy Spirit descending on God the Son while God the Father proclaims His pleasure in the Son. Matthew 28:19 and 2 Corinthians 13:14 are examples of three distinct Persons in the Trinity.

3) The members of the Trinity are distinguished one from another in various passages. In the Old Testament, “LORD” is distinguished from “Lord” (Genesis 19:24; Hosea 1:4). The LORD has a Son (Psalm 2:7, 12; Proverbs 30:2-4). The Spirit is distinguished from the “LORD” (Numbers 27:18) and from “God” (Psalm 51:10-12). God the Son is distinguished from God the Father (Psalm 45:6-7; Hebrews 1:8-9). In the New Testament, Jesus speaks to the Father about sending a Helper, the Holy Spirit (John 14:16-17). This shows that Jesus did not consider Himself to be the Father or the Holy Spirit. Consider also all the other times in the Gospels where Jesus speaks to the Father. Was He speaking to Himself? No. He spoke to another Person in the Trinity—the Father.

4) Each member of the Trinity is God. The Father is God (John 6:27; Romans 1:7; 1 Peter 1:2). The Son is God (John 1:1, 14; Romans 9:5; Colossians 2:9; Hebrews 1:8; 1 John 5:20). The Holy Spirit is God (Acts 5:3-4; 1 Corinthians 3:16).

5) There is subordination within the Trinity. Scripture shows that the Holy Spirit is subordinate to the Father and the Son, and the Son is subordinate to the Father. This is an internal relationship and does not deny the deity of any Person of the Trinity. This is simply an area which our finite minds cannot understand concerning the infinite God. Concerning the Son see Luke 22:42, John 5:36, John 20:21, and 1 John 4:14. Concerning the Holy Spirit see John 14:16, 14:26, 15:26, 16:7, and especially John 16:13-14.

6) The individual members of the Trinity have different tasks. The Father is the ultimate source or cause of the universe (1 Corinthians 8:6; Revelation 4:11); divine revelation (Revelation 1:1); salvation (John 3:16-17); and Jesus' human works (John 5:17; 14:10). The Father initiates all of these things.

The Son is the agent through whom the Father does the following works: the creation and maintenance of the universe (1 Corinthians 8:6; John 1:3; Colossians 1:16-17); divine revelation (John 1:1, 16:12-15; Matthew 11:27; Revelation 1:1); and salvation (2 Corinthians 5:19; Matthew 1:21; John 4:42). The Father does all these things through the Son, who functions as His agent.

The Holy Spirit is the means by whom the Father does the following works: creation and maintenance of the universe (Genesis 1:2; Job 26:13; Psalm 104:30); divine revelation (John 16:12-15; Ephesians 3:5; 2 Peter 1:21); salvation (John 3:6; Titus 3:5; 1 Peter 1:2); and Jesus' works (Isaiah 61:1; Acts 10:38). Thus, the Father does all these things by the power of the Holy Spirit.

https://www.gotquestions.org/Trinity-Bible.html

Shalom, missmuffet.

Of course, in ALL these verses we must be sure that we're reading what was actually written! We must be confident that we are "on the same page" as the author who wrote what we're reading! Our definitions must match, and we should understand the background culture and history of each author within the context of the words we are reading.

We must be EXTREMELY CAREFUL not to read into these passages what we THINK they mean. (And, to all I say, "Good luck with that!")

[OpenMind]

On 3/29/2019 at 1:57 AM, Who me said:

Interesting, how can one believe that Jesus has died to save one from ones sins etc unless Jesus is God?

May I suggest that you ignore such threads unless you are prepared to raise issues like the one I've raised.

Never discuss whether someone is or is not a Christian. That is not our role.

What's really interesting is that praying to Jesus was never a thing in early Christianity.  Christians prayed to the father, just as Jesus told us to, yet today most protestants pray to Jesus.  

And what's interesting about the trinity is two things.

1.  All references to the Holy Spirit are actually references to the Father, as he literally is the Holy Spirit.  Not two separate persons as the trinity doctrine teaches, but one and the same.

2.  The trinity doctrine is primarily derived from the Johanneum comma (1 John 5:7-8) which did not exist in early Greek manuscripts but was added later at the insistence of the RCC.  Only the KJV and NKJV, as modern English translations, actually include this description of the trinity, without which there is no trinity doctrine.

[OpenMind]

On 4/1/2019 at 3:14 PM, WilliamL said:

Huh! And yet the same people would have no problem at all believing that Man is body and soul and spirit. Go figure.

Bing bing bing bing! You win the prize for eliciting my 2000th post. Your check in is the mail.

Body and soul and spirit are also greatly misunderstood concepts.  We can see in Genesis 2:7 that God breathed life into man, and man became a living soul.  This single verse actually explains all three of body, soul and spirit.  Spirit is actually the breath of God, which when breathed into the body created a soul.  A soul is any living creature, as any living creature which has the breath of life (spirit).  In other words, body + spirit (life) = soul.