My own beliefs about "eternal security"

[Omegaman 3.0]

OK, just to add some clarity, here is the last thing I wrote, in another thread on the topic, just before it was deleted, please consider it as you make you comments in this new thread:

Quote

 

 I wonder why one cannot make their scriptural case, and move on. Why make the same point that you already made? Why make the same point, that someone else already made?

There are only so many verses in the Bible which can legitimately be said to bear upon the topic. This thread uses up way more space than those verses do. Seems to me then, that much of this thread has to be opinions of people, telling others what they should believe about what the Bible says (I am not guiltless in this myself).

If this is true (that there are more words and thoughts here than the Bible itself provides) then what we are accomplishing is this:

• We are making the thread so long and tedious, that most who need answers, will not bother to read it.
• Those who do want and need to understand these things, will not find light, they will only find confusion.
• We create division and in-fighting in the church. Who is more happy about that, God, or Satan?
• We prove to the world, that we are a group of bickering, unloving people.
• We provide ideas which many would feel justified in concluding that the Bible is full of contradictions.
• If the above items are not the case, then they at least create the impression  that the Bible cannot be understood, so maybe there is no need to try.

Fighting, is NOT edifying. Which is better?

It was pointed out, no one seems to be convincing anyone else, but I suppose protecting our egos and demonstrating our superior knowledge and understanding must be more important than reaching the lost, helping people understand how to live victorious lives, encouraging, admonishing, etc. etc. etc. Ask yourselves: How much time have I spent on this already?  Why am I (really) doing so? What makes me think I have insight that others lack? Am I sounding like a broken record?

This reminds me a lot of most of the book of Job, where very little of use is said, just a few people, full of themselves, bloviating over what they think they know, when God finally says:

“Who is this that darkens counsel by words without knowledge?"

Notice, that God was addressing the whole lot of them!

I am going to make the wild guess, that pretty much no one involved in this thread, can add anything to it which has not already been said. So what is it, other than pride or the desire to impose on others our own personal views as superior? Who here claims to have a monopoly on the Holy Spirit, anyone?

If you do, are you evidencing it with the fruit?

• Love
• Joy
• Peace
• Patience
• Kindness
• Goodness
• Faithfulness
• Gentleness
• Self control

I see no evidence that this thread has any further good use to anyone. I am sorely tempted to close it, or at the very least, block many, if not most here, from further participation. If you have something to add which has not already been said  and that thought is scriptural, then go ahead and add it. If not, then why not restrain yourself? Also, if a topic is closed, please, do not start it up all over again only to continue the same pattern!

The only good thing about beating a dead horse, is that it no longer feels the pain!

 

That is what I said, don't let it apply here as well!

[Dennis1209]

2 hours ago, cantankerous5 said:

I'm sorry but I am struggling to make sense of what you said. If you are always saved once you are saved but .. I mean,  that means you can sin all you want.. 

or may as well mean that in any case

Said another way... When a person is truly born again; we are a new creature in Christ, the old nature is dead. Our "want too's" drastically change. I'm a prime example of someone who was a backslidder for decades and started living for the lusts and desires of the flesh. I was miserable and had no lasting joy (not to be confused with brief and temporary happiness) in my life. I was always being mentally convicted of my sinning and couldn't escape it. 

Decades later in November 2017, a beautiful clear gorgeous day and out of no where... Something knocked me over like a bowling pin, and I broke down for the first and only time in my life. I went into an uncontrollable bawl and cried my eyes out, a terrible guilt and things I can't explain were bursting forth and facing me. If you knew my history, my military service and type of individual I had become; it was not my character to shed a tear much less break down like a baby. On my knees I sincerely prayed like never before asking the Lord for forgiveness, and Lord with your help I will repent. It's a long story and no one wants to air their dirty laundry, but immediately after my confession, prayer and asking the Lord back into my life... I couldn't hardly believe that immediately true joy returned inside of me, a lasting joy to this day.

Philippians 1:6 (KJV) Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

[Reinitin]

3 hours ago, Omegaman 3.0 said:

OK, just to add some clarity, here is the last thing I wrote, in another thread on the topic, just before it was deleted, please consider it as you make you comments in this new thread:

That is what I said, don't let it apply here as well!

I imagine the young man that fell out of the window when Paul was teaching late into the night felt like the dead horse was being beaten. But he probably got the point he was missing when Pauls prayer healed him. God works in mysterious ways. Understanding never comes by the silence of the misunderstood and protecting the false accusations of fools.

[frienduff thaylorde]

3 minutes ago, Cletus said:

Luk 21:34  And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares.
Luk 21:35  For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth.
Luk 21:36  Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

if eternal security is a real thing why then is there warnings not to be burdened by sin?  why are we told to pray always we might escape this trap, and if we do not will we then not be able to stand in His presence? 

and even more, why does the enemy tempt us to sin?  whats the purpose? 

As our eternal savoir said this as much more .   And as paul would echo him too .  IF you continue in His goodness , otherwise you will be cut off .

If even JESUS warned HIS own about the last days and said take heed that NO man deceives you ,

and peter said the same , Beware lest any of you be taken with the error of the wicked and fall from your own steadfastness.

There are warnings all over the bible that we better remain IN HIM and HEED HIM and if one errs they better repent asap .     Christ ,  the apostels

JESUS from heaven ,  Sure seem very different in their approach than what I see today .    know what I mean .   

Its as we said since day one ,    Better exhort daily , lest any does become hardened through the deicietfulness of sin .

Better endure in HIM and by HIM to the end , HEEDING the SPIRIT and not the flesh .  

If paul said they have damanation because they cast off there first Faith .

And then GOD reminds the Church to return to its first love , the love it had AT FIRST ,  OR ELSE .       WELL then ,    ITs as JESUS DID SAY

IF a man continues not in me ,   HE will be cast out .   And its as peter reminded and JESUS Too had said ,    they knew the way of righteousness

had been washed clean , yet return to the pit and overcome .   Their latter end is even worse than had they NEVER EVEN KNOW the way of righteousness .

I suppose we can do this all night .   But as many scrips as I have brought in times past ,   I have never seen one repent of their acroym

and accept THE WORDS of OUR eternal security JESUS CHRIST .    Guess many don't realize what is going on .

If we say that ,  who we calling a liar .       Cause JESUS warned , the apostels warned and GOD from heaven warned , REPENT or else .  REPENT believers or else . 

[Blood Bought 1953]

3 hours ago, naominash said:

One good thing has happened from all these eternal security debates.

 

They have encouraged me to read the Bible for myself with fresh eyes.

 

Me too! Some threads ,even though they appear to be beaten to death, are completely new to many that peruse Worthy.I have been posting hear for a little over a year.I have been a serious Bible student for 35 years. Debating Spiritual matters here, has got my nose in the Bible like never before.I’m sure I am not alone in this regard.I believe that if individuals tire of  certain threads ,nobody is forcing anybody to view them.If nobody is getting anything out of a thread, let it fizzle out.Somebody out there may still be getting something out of it.

 

 

[frienduff thaylorde]

10 hours ago, Cletus said:

I agree.  but if eternal security is a thing why would the enemy waste his time trying to tempt us?   if there was nothing the enemy could do because of eternal security there would be no reason for him to tempt us.  He even Tempted Jesus did he not? 

it is true no external force can snatch us from His hand, but there is more than one way to skin a cat, isnt there? 

if there was nothing the enemy could do because of eternal security why then are there so many wolves, aka those infested with the spirit of antiChrist in the church back in Pauls day, and even today?

here is a big clue...

Job 1:9  Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, Doth Job fear God for nought?
Job 1:10  Hast not thou made an hedge about him, and about his house, and about all that he hath on every side? thou hast blessed the work of his hands, and his substance is increased in the land.
Job 1:11  But put forth thine hand now, and touch all that he hath, and he will curse thee to thy face.

 

Eternal security is in Christ alone  .   As we both know this .    The simple solution ,   Believe in HIM and continue IN HIM to the end .  Being faithful

and heeding His unction and learning well sound doctrine .    For if we heed not HE who has saved us and can keep us from falling , THEN WE WILL SURELY fail of the Grace

of GOD .    We know JESUS came to save .   And we know also that if we don't heed our savoir and continue in HIS goodness , obeying HIM , the SPIRIT

the grace of GOD ,   we will fail of this grace of GOD which is given us in Christ .    This is where many no longer see as possible .

We must continue in HIM , BY HIM , but if one takes off from heeding the SHEPARD , that one is in dire trouble .  Thus if any man does err , if any of the brethren

do err from the truth ,  we must be lighting fast to correct and do all to restore such a one ,  for he who converts the sinner from the error of his ways

has surely saved a soul from death and covers a multitude of sin.   Many are not making that calling and election sure .   They are not

and thus they are following the doctrines of men and are in danger .   We must do all to both learn the pattern JESUS set and the apostles set

and teach that And the Spirit is our guide .   Only we better heed its unctions and learn sound doctrine well , so as we are made wise unto salvation through faith in Christ .

That's right no external force can snatch us from HIM  ,  but  who we follow and obey IS our master .  And if WE take off from heeding HIM , by following some lust

WE  have taken off from heeding HIM who speaks form heaven .    Thus we did it to ourselves .    They all knew and all taught that the church Must follow

the lamb faithful to the end .  They all knew that by the spirit and sound doctrine the brethren must exhort daily , lest any DID become hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.

All those constant reminders true men gave , were doing so BY the work of Grace , BY the SPIRIT within .  Given to build up the brethren .

Thus as we know the SPIRIT never changes ,    so where are all these warnings today .   WE live in times where sin is honored

more than ever , we live in times of the greatest falling away .   If GOD warned the seven churches , if paul , james , jude , john and others

were quite serious against sin and error ,  THEN why in the height of this falling away , are the mass majority NOT sounding out alarms

but instead being coaxed into an acryonm and in no way see the dangers of sin and error as the early church once did .   Its a sign ,  and its not good at all.

At the time the church should be sounding out the gravest of alarms and warnings ,  Its been coaxed to bed and thus keeps waxing worse and worse and worse .

Any leader or pastor of any church ,  IS there for one reason ,  TO GUARD the flock .  IF they were true men of GOD , we would be see lots of men

warning the sheep of the churches about the times we in RIGHT NOW .    But I don't even see this at all .    Instead of warning against the wolves

they been letting the wolves come into their churches and teach their own flocks .   We in dire danger , this generation is in grave danger and has no idea

because their leaders wont correct and do more and more for the sake of this unity .

[simplejeff]

45 minutes ago, frienduff thaylorde said:

We in dire danger , this generation is in grave danger and has no idea

Many multitudes of internet users,  many multitudes of 'comfortable' church goers,   lost. (as Jesus says).

They were warned.

[simplejeff]

19 hours ago, cantankerous5 said:

I frankly do not understand Christians who believe that they are saved regardless of what horrible sin they may commit after "accepting Christ"

Like those so-called Christians who believe that they are saved regardless of that horrible sin they commit daily being rcc, or even just accepting that, with all of its abominations.   They are and remain deceived, greatly.   Except for the few who escape and find the narrow road to life (Jesus).

[gordon7777]

Continue once you found the narrow way few find of humbling, of abasing, of fear, of not high minded, then this is the cutting off, even if continue in Him, as Israel continued until cut off for pride, even as told..

 

Romans 11:²⁰ Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:²¹ For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.²² Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

 

If yo think you are safe=saved, you will not fear, if you believe you have a tiny chance, you have purpose to fear God, and sit very low.

[frienduff thaylorde]

3 hours ago, simplejeff said:

Like those so-called Christians who believe that they are saved regardless of that horrible sin they commit daily being rcc, or even just accepting that, with all of its abominations.   They are and remain deceived, greatly.   Except for the few who escape and find the narrow road to life (Jesus).

Whereunto shall we liken this generation .   it is alike a man who was a murderer and yet he sounded the alarm beware , beware of the adulterer .

For this is the generation of ROME and those who are hers , cannot see they in the gravest of dangers .  

It is like children in the greatest of darkness ,  calling unto children In darkness and saying alas , alas we have the LIGHT , we know the way , we hold the keys .

For rome is the mother of all abomindations and claims she holds the keys and the inheritance is hers .   And yet the only keys she holds are the keys of eternal damnation .  

What has been said , has been said ,  and thus let all who have ears to hear receive it .

Edited June 11, 2019 by frienduff thaylorde