Alternative Timeline? Comparing the Trumpet and Bowl Judgments

[Spock]

Greetings again Church and fellow prophecy seekers:

Our dear sister, Marilyn, has turned me on to a timeline that I am now  looking hard at.  She believes the 6 seals are spread throughout the entire 70th week with the 6th obviously being where Christ returns to the planet to rule and reign. She has both the trumpets and bowls inside the seals, not in consecutive order.  This timeline has made me look harder at the judgments, in particular, the trumpet and bowl judgments.  

The main motive of this thread is to look at an alternative timeline, one that is not the usual consecutive one where trumpets follow seals and bowls follow trumpets.  Do you see a possibility the judgments are NOT consecutive? 

Surprisingly, I noticed each one corresponds to the other....in other words the first trumpet is similar to the first bowl, and so forth. Here is a readers digest synopsis of the 7 judgments for each:

Trumpets.......Bowls

1. Trumpet: Affects EARTH..trees, grass...Bowls: poured onto EARTH

2. Trumpet: affects the SEA.......Bowls: poured into the SEA

3. Trumpet: fell on the RIVERS.......Bowl: poured into the RIVERS and springs

4. Trumpet: third of the SUN, moon, and stars were smitten.......Bowl: poured upon the SUN 

5. Trumpet: star fallen from heaven (Satan?), key to abyss opened and smoke DARKENED Sun.......Bowl: poured upon the Beast throne, and his kingdom became DARKENED, leading to much pain 

6. Trumpet: release angels bound at the EUPHRATES RIVER, 1/3 men killed..........Bowl: poured upon the EUPHRATES RIVER, to gather the kings to battle

7. Trumpet: the kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord, and He will reign forever.........Bowl: a voice out of the Temple says  “it is finished”  

Side note just before release of the 7th trumpet: “ in that hour a great earthquake and 1/10 of Jerusalem fell.......7th Bowl: great earthquake, Jerusalem was split into 3 parts

Conclusion and Questions to ask: It seems pretty obvious to me the trumpets and bowls in order are similar in affecting their intended result. So, is it possible each overlap? Are the bowls just giving us more detail of the trumpets?  Are they thus necessarily consecutive, or can they be released concurrently?  Is it possible the seal Judgments can be opened throughout the 70th week and end at the final battle that brings Christ back down just before he establishes his MK?  I look forward to reading your answers and reading your thoughts. 

I have pasted all necessary scripture at the bottom so you don’t have to go far to find them to look at.  I am opening up this thread to provoke thought, conversation, and an exchange of ideas. We are the Body of Christ so let us support each member with our gifts, talents, and wisdom.

 

TRUMPET JUDGMENTS:

7Then the first angel sounded his trumpet, and hail and fire mixed with blood were hurled down upon the earth. A third of the earth was burned up, along with a third of the trees and all the green grass.

8Then the second angel sounded his trumpet, and something like a great mountain burning with fire was thrown into the sea. A third of the sea turned to blood, 9a third of the living creatures in the sea died, and a third of the ships were destroyed.

10Then the third angel sounded his trumpet, and a great star burning like a torch fell from heaven and landed on a third of the rivers and on the springs of water.11The name of the star is Wormwood. A third of the waters turned bitter like wormwood oil, and many people died from the bitter waters.

12Then the fourth angel sounded his trumpet, and a third of the sun and moon and stars were struck. A third of the stars were darkened, a third of the day was without light, and a third of the night as well.

1Then the fifth angel sounded his trumpet, and I saw a star that had fallen from heaven to earth, and it was given the key to the pit of the Abyss. 2The star opened the pit of the Abyss, and smoke rose out of it like the smoke of a great furnace, and the sun and the air were darkened by the smoke from the pit.

3And out of the smoke, locusts descended on the earth, and they were given power like that of the scorpions of the earth. 4They were told not to harm the grass of the earth or any plant or tree, but only those who did not have the seal of God on their foreheads. 5The locusts were not given power to kill them, but only to torment them for five months, and their torment was like the stinging of a scorpion. 6In those days men will seek death and will not find it; they will long to die, but death will escape them.

7And the locusts looked like horses prepared for battle, with something like crowns of gold on their heads, and faces like the faces of men. 8They had hair like that of women, and teeth like those of lions. 9They also had thoraxes like breastplates of iron, and the sound of their wings was like the roar of many horses and chariots rushing into battle. 10They had tails with stingers like scorpions, which had the power to injure people for five months. 11They were ruled by a king, the angel of the Abyss. His name in Hebrew is Abaddon,a and in Greek it is Apollyon.b

12The first woe has passed. Behold, two woes are still to follow.

13Then the sixth angel sounded his trumpet, and I heard a voice from the four horns of the golden altar before God 14saying to the sixth angel with the trumpet, “Release the four angels who are bound at the great river Euphrates.”

15So the four angels who had been prepared for this hour and day and month and year were released to kill a third of mankind. 16And the number of mounted troops was two hundred million; I heard their number.

17Now the horses and riders in my vision looked like this: The riders had breastplates the colors of fire, sapphire, and brimstone. The heads of the horses were like the heads of lions, and out of their mouths proceeded fire, smoke, and brimstone. 18A third of mankind was killed by the three plagues of fire, smoke, and brimstone that proceeded from their mouths. 19For the power of the horses was in their mouths and in their tails; indeed, their tails were like snakes, having heads with which to inflict harm.

15Then the seventh angel sounded his trumpet, and loud voices called out in heaven: 

“The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of His Christ, and He will reign forever and ever.”

 

 

BOWL JUDGMENTS:

the first angel went and poured out his bowl on the earth, and loathsome, malignant sores broke out on those who had the mark of the beast and worshiped its image.

3And the second angel poured out his bowl into the sea, and it turned to blood like that of the dead, and every living thing in the sea died.

4And the third angel poured out his bowl into the rivers and springs of water, and they turned to blood. 5And I heard the angel of the waters say: 

“Righteous are You, O Holy One, who is and who was, because You have brought these judgments.6For they have spilled the blood of saints and prophets, and You have given them blood to drink as they deserve.”7And I heard the altar reply: “Yes, Lord God Almighty, true and just are Your judgments.”

8Then the fourth angel poured out his bowl on the sun, and it was given power to scorch the people with fire. 9And the people were scorched by intense heat, and they cursed the name of God, who had authority over these plagues; yet they did not repent and give Him glory.

10And the fifth angel poured out his bowl on the throne of the beast, and its kingdom was plunged into darkness, and men began to gnaw their tongues in anguish 11and curse the God of heaven for their pains and sores; yet they did not repent of their deeds.

12And the sixth angel poured out his bowl on the great river Euphrates, and its water was dried up to prepare the way for the kings of the East.

13And I saw three unclean spirits that looked like frogs coming out of the mouths of the dragon, the beast, and the false prophet. 14These are demonic spirits that perform signs and go out to all the kings of the earth, to assemble them for battle on the great day of God, the Almighty.

15“Behold, I am coming like a thief. Blessed is the one who remains awake and clothed, so that he will not go naked and let his shame be exposed.”

16And they assembled the kings in the place that in Hebrew is called Armageddon.

17Then the seventh angel poured out his bowl into the air, and a loud voice came from the throne in the temple, saying, “It is done!”

18And there were flashes of lightning, and rumblings, and peals of thunder, and a great earthquake the likes of which had not occurred since men were upon the earth—so mighty was the great quake. 19The great city was split into three parts, and the cities of the nations collapsed. And God remembered Babylon the great and gave her the cup of the wine of the fury of His wrath.

20Then every island fled, and no mountain could be found. 21And huge hailstones, about a hundred pounds each,a rained down on them from above. And men cursed God for the plague of hail, because it was so horrendous.

[dhchristian]

6 minutes ago, Spock said:

Surprisingly, I noticed each one corresponds to the other....in other the first trumpet is similar to the first bowl, and so forth. Here is a readers digest synopsis of the 7 judgments for each:

This one Piqued my interest. 

The Key for me understanding the synchronicity of Revelation is the day of the LORD. Throughout scripture, The Day of the LORD is described as a day of Thunder, Lightning, hailstones, Wrath etc. The seventh seal, Bowl, and trumpet all share this imagery, as well as several other places In the book of Revelation. This led me to conclude that Revelation is a series of seven visions that jump back and overlap one another. The Points you made are Valid, But I do not feel there is a one for one two for two synchronicity, but rather that the seals are a longer term prophecy, The trumpets shorter term, and the bowls even shorter... For example, the sixth seal could be associated with the fifth trumpet, In other words the darkening of the sun is caused by the clouds of smoke from the bottomless pit. 

Her is somewhat of a structure as I can explain it. 

1 Rev 1;1-6:1 Notice the "Noise of Thunder" and the "come and see", Like the vision of the seals now begins. Vision of the church and the saints.

2 Rev. 6:2-rev. 8:5 Notice in 8:5 The thunderings, Lightnings and earthquakes. Vision of the seals

3 Rev 8:5- Rev. 11:19. Notice verse 19, the "lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail."

4 Rev 12:1-14:2 This is the vision of the characters.

5 Rev 15:1-16:21 Notice this commences with "great hailstones" as prophesied in the Book of Job for the Day of the LORD (Job 38:22-23) This is the vision of the bowls.

6 Rev. 17:1-19:21. You will find the end this time with the rider on the White Horse executing the final Judgments.

7 rev 20:1-end discusses the aftermath, the millennial reign of Christ. To the end of the Millennium and beyond. This vision is separate from the synchronicity of the others.

NOTE: This of course is not perfect, But perhaps this will give you some incite as you explore this topic. Some things to consider. Notice the Bottomless pit is mentioned in multiple places. Could these sync up? 

[Diaste]

An idea I've been touting for some time. Not exactly like this but the consecutive concurrent nature of the seals and trumps and the occurrence of the bowls at a stand alone finish within the 7th seal.

[Marilyn C]

2 hours ago, Spock said:

Greetings again Church and fellow prophecy seekers:

Our dear sister, Marilyn, has turned me on to a timeline that I am now  looking hard at.  She believes the 6 seals are spread throughout the entire 70th week with the 6th obviously being where Christ returns to the planet to rule and reign. She has both the trumpets and bowls inside the seals, not in consecutive order.  This timeline has made me look harder at the judgments, in particular, the trumpet and bowl judgments.  

The main motive of this thread is to look at an alternative timeline, one that is not the usual consecutive one where trumpets follow seals and bowls follow trumpets.  Do you see a possibility the judgments are NOT consecutive? 

Surprisingly, I noticed each one corresponds to the other....in other words the first trumpet is similar to the first bowl, and so forth. Here is a readers digest synopsis of the 7 judgments for each:

 

Hi Spock,

Great thread there bro. You have made some very good observations. Looking forward to the discussion as I believe the Holy Spirit will give us all insight and clarify much to us all. Have short time as on batteries .....will write more when we are on power. Here is my diagram if people want to check it out.

 

 

[Spock]

12 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi Spock,

Great thread there bro. You have made some very good observations. Looking forward to the discussion as I believe the Holy Spirit will give us all insight and clarify much to us all. Have short time as on batteries .....will write more when we are on power. Here is my diagram if people want to check it out.

 

 

One observation I have looking at your diagram and comparing the timing of the trumpets and bowls is that you have trumpets 1-4 in the first half of the week whereby you have all the bowls in the second half of the week. 

If I am right in thinking each trumpet and corresponding bowl are SIMILAR (1e, 1=1, 2=2, etc) then shouldn’t bowls 1-4 also be in the first week, if you agree the bowls just add more details to the trumpets and refer to the same judgment? 

[Spock]

What started me to pursue an alternative timeline was when I noticed the 6th trumpet and the 6th bowl IN PARTICULAR both referenced the Euphrates River. Well, I think we all know how significant that River has been throughout history.  Even the Roman Empire used that River as its boundary ( except for a brief period when they crossed past it). 

So I asked myself, “Do I really believe these are talking about two distinct events separated by time?”  I concluded that it doesn’t make sense to believe that....it makes more sense to see them as the same event. And this led me to compare all 7 judgments of each.  I was surprised to see how similar they are on each one as I have shown above.  So can I conclude the 1st trumpet and bowl are the same event? The 2nd trumpet and bowl are the same event?  I really can’t say yes for sure, but I’m thinking now, maybe so. 

If they are different, is God just repeating the judgments with a bit of a twist, although similar? 

What do you think? 

[Last Daze]

1 hour ago, Spock said:

What started me to pursue an alternative timeline was when I noticed the 6th trumpet and the 6th bowl IN PARTICULAR both referenced the Euphrates River. Well, I think we all know how significant that River has been throughout history.  Even the Roman Empire used that River as its boundary ( except for a brief period when they crossed past it). 

So I asked myself, “Do I really believe these are talking about two distinct events separated by time?”  I concluded that it doesn’t make sense to believe that....it makes more sense to see them as the same event. And this led me to compare all 7 judgments of each.  I was surprised to see how similar they are on each one as I have shown above.  So can I conclude the 1st trumpet and bowl are the same event? The 2nd trumpet and bowl are the same event?  I really can’t say yes for sure, but I’m thinking now, maybe so. 

If they are different, is God just repeating the judgments with a bit of a twist, although similar? 

What do you think? 

I believe that there are seven plagues, each one begins with a trumpet and ends with a bowl.  Along with the common reference of the Euphrates (6th), fresh water being affected (3rd), seas being affected (2nd), darkness caused by opening the abyss (5th), lightening, thunder, earthquake, hailstones (7th), celestial bodies affected (4th), Revelation 15 confirms the seven plagues understanding.  The first plague is a bit difficult to see the link but I think it is the results of drought when the two witnesses shut up the skies.

[Spock]

2 hours ago, Last Daze said:

I believe that there are seven plagues, each one begins with a trumpet and ends with a bowl.  Along with the common reference of the Euphrates (6th), fresh water being affected (3rd), seas being affected (2nd), darkness caused by opening the abyss (5th), lightening, thunder, earthquake, hailstones (7th), celestial bodies affected (4th), Revelation 15 confirms the seven plagues understanding.  The first plague is a bit difficult to see the link but I think it is the results of drought when the two witnesses shut up the skies.

Hey LD.,

Would you mind providing your timeline of the 70th week? I’m a visual learner.  Thanks

[Last Daze]

12 minutes ago, Spock said:

Hey LD.,

Would you mind providing your timeline of the 70th week? I’m a visual learner.  Thanks

Here is a pdf with a timeline of how I see the seals, trumpets and bowls.

Here is a short video on the seven plagues.

[dhchristian]

2 hours ago, Spock said:

What started me to pursue an alternative timeline was when I noticed the 6th trumpet and the 6th bowl IN PARTICULAR both referenced the Euphrates River. Well, I think we all know how significant that River has been throughout history.  Even the Roman Empire used that River as its boundary ( except for a brief period when they crossed past it).

Like wise here. Babylon's fall mentioned twice as well. 14:8, one of three angels announces the fall of Babylon, and in 18:2 she is fallen again? To me this had to be the same event, which meant these two verses synced.