what is your opinion on modern day feminism? what about men's right movement?

[Dennis1209]

I say we're all equal. If a class or gender of people can't meet the ridged standards of excellence to defend this nation, pull a 200 pound man out of a burning house, a 100 # police person trying to handcuff a muscular man resisting....

I say let's lower the standards, change physical requirements and distinguish between men and women so everyone wins. While we're at it, why not change our bias math and arithmetic for something else? Yeah, the same pay for the same performance. 

[Dennis1209]

2 hours ago, Jayne said:

I may regret this, but.....

….well, I don't normally talk about this on message boards unless it's brought up.  I'm a first wave feminist and have been since I was about 25 years old [I'm 58 now].

What that means in terms of what I am NOT:

•  I am not one of these second and third wavers who dress up like genitals and protest Trump.  I don't care for Trump's ways at al, but to do what those women did was senseless and stupid and completely ineffective and only made things worse.  Plus, it wasn't Biblical.  It wasn't what a Christian woman should do.
•  I do not believe in women climbing over the backs of children, men, and other women to make a name for themselves.
•  I am not a man-hater.

What does this mean in terms of what I AM.  I am a believer that things are not right in terms of some women's issues and that some things do need changing and are very, very HARD to change.  For example:

•  The marital rape exemption laws in the United States did not begin to be taken off of the state's books until 1975.  Not 1775.  Not even 1875.  But 1975.   Up until that point, in all 50 states a man could rape his wife and there would be no legal consequences.  It came from an archaic law in England that said when a woman married -  her right to consent or not consent with her husband was  null and void.  She was his property.  All 50 states now have no marital rape exemption laws anymore [it took decades for all 50 states to comply], but there are other problems.  Several states have granted for a husband's immunity if his wife is drugged or incapacitated and cannot give consent.  He cannot be charged with a crime. Yes.  Read that again.  One particular wife found this out the hard way.  She found a thumb drive with video of her husband raping her while she was drugged.  She took it to the police, they arrested her husband, and he was let go by noon because of that particular exemption.  Other states have much shorter statutes of limitation for wives than for non-wives and in some states, a wife has to prove her husband used a weapon of some kind, a knife, a gun, and baseball bat.  She can't just claim he pinned her down.  What all of these tells me is what I have known for most of my life.  We still don't fully comprehend what rape is in this country.  The Center for Disease Control estimates that somewhere around 9% of wives have been raped by husbands.  Other sources claim as much as 14%.  The point is - while it's a good thing that marital rape is criminalized in all 50 states now - there is still a mindset that a wife cannot be raped by her husband in the hearts of some people.

 

•   And speaking of mindsets, for me - it is a problem of the heart and mind.  I know a lot of great Christian men who just have a heart and mind problem.  Last week on another forum I have frequented since 2002, a man that I thought I knew rather well made this statement:  "Women are more carnally minded than men, that's why they aren't allowed to  lead anywhere".   In my church, there's a particular man I work with in the music ministry and I have for 30 years.  I read a book by a particular woman that was outstanding.  Great Christian teachings.  I suggested it to him.  He said he would pass.  I said, "Well, I've got the tape of it, if you rather just listen to it."  He said, "It's not that I mind if women have opinions because I don't.  I just don't like listening to women talk."  And he laughed.  My pastor, whom I appreciate very much has said some things from the pulpit about women that I haven't appreciated at all as they cannot be found in the Bible.  He once said that Dinah, in Genesis was raped because she should not have been visiting those other women all by herself.  He blamed the victim.  There's more, but I'll not say anymore as other than his issues with women - he's a very good pastor.

 

•   MINDSET:  The only entire sermon from Joel Osteen I've listened to was on marriage.  He did not use scriptures.  He just made it up as he went.  He talked to women for about 25 minutes and told them how they contributed to marriage problems.  He said they were too fat, wore ratty nightgowns to bed, didn't "meet their husbands needs" enough [and told them that they husband were just going to find sex somewhere else if they did have sex more], they should meet their husbands at the door each evening in full make-up and fixed hair-dos, and should do what is done in HIS household and all undergarments should come from Victoria's Secret. He gave this delivery as if he were on Comedy Central.  The congregation just laughed and laughed.   He told the husbands two things.  Stop bugging your wives about sex and talk more.

 

•   MINDSET:  Ed Young, in a televised series of sermons on sexual relations told women that they should dress properly.  And they should.  But here is how he said it.  "Ladies, cover up your boobs and your butts.  I don't like looking at your boobs and your butts."  And he had a look on his face like he was smelling rotten eggs and looking at someone vomiting.  I changed the channel.

 

•   MINDSET:  Mark Driscoll believes and teaches from his pulpit and his books that wives MUST perform oral sex on their husbands or they are sinning against God.  He gives the story of a wife who had an unbelieving husband and she did not perform this act.  After a sermon from Mark from his pulpit, she "got convicted" - went home and apologized to her husband and to God in front of her husband and then proceded to well.... you know.  The next Sunday the man came to church with his wife and "got saved".  Mark says, there in lies the proof of what he preaches.

 

•  MINDSET:  This past Valentines' Day at Louisiana College, the visiting chapel pastor gave a sermon on "female sexuality".  One of his bullet points in his "sermon" was that women should shave their pubic hair to please their men.  He said it in a crude way - "Ladies, you need to keep your lawn mowed for your man."  He was comparing their bodies to a house.  After the students filed a complaint, nothing was done because "this pastor is an important man in his community".  The audio tape of that service was taken off-line.  You can hear all the others, but not that one.  Nothin was done and it was claimed that "cultural differences caused the offence".  What does than even mean?

 

It's just attitudes like this that I have encountered all my life both in and out of the church.  I LOVE and APPRECATE the men in my life - for a variety of reasons.  As I said, I am not a man-hater.  

And it's not just men you hear this from.  There are scores of women who just dump on women all the time for not being the delicate little flower.  I have a Facebook friend who hates abortion as much as I do.  But she will post things like "If these women would just keep their legs shut - maybe we wouldn't have all these dead babies."  What about the woman who is raped?  The one pregnant by a boyfriend/husband and abandoned or coerced into an abortion?  She puts all women who have had or contemplated abortion in to the same category - whore.  Her next Facebook post will be "oh, how I love Jesus!"

I listened to a woman online yesterday who claimed that women should not have a job outside the home because women just are NOT goal-driven like men are and don't have the intestinal fortitude for it.  If I could have rolled my eyes back in head any further, I would have been staring at my own brain.  I think this woman has neither been a stay-at-home-mother nor a member of the outside workforce.  It takes DRIVE and goal-setting for BOTH.

 

There are enough people - men and women alike - who believe and teach that women are inferior in all ways: mentally, spiritually, emotionally, intellectually, and more to cause me to embrace the mindset and heart of my foremothers:  Cady Stanton, Susan B. Anthony, Priscilla, Phoebe, my suffragette sisters and more.

 

I reject the feminism of the this new generation of women.  It involves treating men with as much disdain and some men treat women with.  That - I reject.

 

 

 

 

Reading your post, I have to ask a couple of questions? Why do special classes based on gender need special treatment and laws protecting them from men, why can't they defend themselves? Why doesn't the law protected men from women, that's not fair? 

Equal pay for the same job? Why is it all the standards of excellence and qualifications for the military, fire departments, police departments, etc. etc., have to be drastically lowered and altered, for a certain segment to be able to qualify? Why do women demand to perform jobs they can't biologically compete with men in? In boxing, mixed martial arts, sports, etc., how come the women are not competing with men? What's to complain about, women now have the best of both worlds...

[Clipper]

11 minutes ago, Dennis1209 said:

Reading your post, I have to ask a couple of questions? Why do special classes based on gender need special treatment and laws protecting them from men, why can't they defend themselves? Why doesn't the law protected men from women, that's not fair? 

Equal pay for the same job? Why is it all the standards of excellence and qualifications for the military, fire departments, police departments, etc. etc., have to be drastically lowered and altered, for a certain segment to be able to qualify? Why do women demand to perform jobs they can't biologically compete with men in? In boxing, mixed martial arts, sports, etc., how come the women are not competing with men? What's to complain about, women now have the best of both worlds...

You do realize there are more jobs than just physical labor right?

[nickm727]

Paul says to be submissive

 

[Clipper]

4 hours ago, maryjayne said:

is this thread open for female input too?

Hey you got that down basically perfectly. This thread is almost completely dominated by male posters now.

[Dennis1209]

14 minutes ago, Clipper said:

You do realize there are more jobs than just physical labor right?

I thought the implementations, comparisons and job descriptions were self explanatory? The point I was making is; our biology is much different, both physically and emotionally. Some tasks men perform much better than women, and vice versa. Tasks that require physical strength [military, combat, pulling a 225# man out of a burning house, police officer detaining a male, etc.] are better suited for those with comparable strengths. Feminism demands women be employed in those fields that were traditionally male dominated. To do so, the employment standards had to be downgraded and relaxed for segments of our society to qualify. 

[ayin jade]

1 hour ago, nickm727 said:

Paul says to be submissive

 

Paul also said husbands love your wives as Christ loves the church and gave Himself up for her. I fail to see how a husband forcing himself on his wife fits that.

[BeauJangles]

what about men's right movement?

I was totally unaware we had a movement going. Where do I sign up? 

(just kidding!) 

Let me read through the thread and come up with something to post on the OP. 

[BeauJangles]

5 hours ago, Jayne said:

•   MINDSET:  The only entire sermon from Joel Osteen I've listened to was on marriage.  He did not use scriptures.  He just made it up as he went.  He talked to women for about 25 minutes and told them how they contributed to marriage problems.  He said they were too fat, wore ratty nightgowns to bed, didn't "meet their husbands needs" enough [and told them that they husband were just going to find sex somewhere else if they did have sex more], they should meet their husbands at the door each evening in full make-up and fixed hair-dos, and should do what is done in HIS household and all undergarments should come from Victoria's Secret. He gave this delivery as if he were on Comedy Central.  The congregation just laughed and laughed.   He told the husbands two things.  Stop bugging your wives about sex and talk more.

 

•   MINDSET:  Ed Young, in a televised series of sermons on sexual relations told women that they should dress properly.  And they should.  But here is how he said it.  "Ladies, cover up your boobs and your butts.  I don't like looking at your boobs and your butts."  And he had a look on his face like he was smelling rotten eggs and looking at someone vomiting.  I changed the channel.

 

•   MINDSET:  Mark Driscoll believes and teaches from his pulpit and his books that wives MUST perform oral sex on their husbands or they are sinning against God.  He gives the story of a wife who had an unbelieving husband and she did not perform this act.  After a sermon from Mark from his pulpit, she "got convicted" - went home and apologized to her husband and to God in front of her husband and then proceded to well.... you know.  The next Sunday the man came to church with his wife and "got saved".  Mark says, there in lies the proof of what he preaches.

 

•  MINDSET:  This past Valentines' Day at Louisiana College, the visiting chapel pastor gave a sermon on "female sexuality".  One of his bullet points in his "sermon" was that women should shave their pubic hair to please their men.  He said it in a crude way - "Ladies, you need to keep your lawn mowed for your man."  He was comparing their bodies to a house.  After the students filed a complaint, nothing was done because "this pastor is an important man in his community".  The audio tape of that service was taken off-line.  You can hear all the others, but not that one.  Nothin was done and it was claimed that "cultural differences caused the offence".  What does than even mean?

 

This is totally mind boggling, not to mention shameful as well. It's hard to comprehend these ministers would even openly present overt subjects like that. 

[Jayne]

4 hours ago, Dennis1209 said:

Reading your post, I have to ask a couple of questions? Why do special classes based on gender need special treatment and laws protecting them from men, why can't they defend themselves? Why doesn't the law protected men from women, that's not fair? 

Equal pay for the same job? Why is it all the standards of excellence and qualifications for the military, fire departments, police departments, etc. etc., have to be drastically lowered and altered, for a certain segment to be able to qualify? Why do women demand to perform jobs they can't biologically compete with men in? In boxing, mixed martial arts, sports, etc., how come the women are not competing with men? What's to complain about, women now have the best of both worlds...

You'll have to ask God about the rape laws.  He started it in Deuteronomy 22.  God says that some women cannot fight back and he equates rape with murder.

"25 “But if in the open country a man meets a young woman who is betrothed, and the man forces her and lies with her, then only the man who lay with her shall die. 26 But you shall do nothing to the young woman; she has committed no offense punishable by death. For this case is like that of a man attacking and murdering his neighbor, 27 because he met her in the open country, and though the betrothed young woman cried for help there was no one to rescue her."

As far the rest of your questions, I never addressed that.  I believe, if a woman can physically do the job, she should have a chance to get the job.  But criteria should not be lowered.