Daniel 11

[Marilyn C]

On ‎2‎/‎5‎/‎2020 at 2:09 AM, Revelation Man said:

36 is right, 21-33 maybe 34 is Antiochus 34 and 35 is the 2000 - 2200 some odd year time period between Antiochus and the End Times, where many overcome and become WHITE until the end...... meaning of course they are cleansed in Jesus. Then 36-45 is the Anti-Christ. We are given the Greek genealogy for a reason, he is born n Greece.

Hi Rev Man,

Actually it is from the area, the North, which was a legacy of Alexander. And the north was ancient Assyria, (Iraq, Syria & Jordan). These are the 3 that will come together and be the power base of the Moslem leader. The 3 horns being uprooted by the `little horn.`

That area has come back into focus, just as God said it would in His appointed time.

[Revelation Man]

1 hour ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi Rev Man,

Actually it is from the area, the North, which was a legacy of Alexander. And the north was ancient Assyria, (Iraq, Syria & Jordan). These are the 3 that will come together and be the power base of the Moslem leader. The 3 horns being uprooted by the `little horn.`

That area has come back into focus, just as God said it would in His appointed time.

Dan. 7 and Dan 8 tells us the Anti-Christ is born in Greece and comes to power in the E.U. He will be an Assyrian. This is why we get the Dan. 11 Genealogy. 

[Marilyn C]

33 minutes ago, Revelation Man said:

Dan. 7 and Dan 8 tells us the Anti-Christ is born in Greece and comes to power in the E.U. He will be an Assyrian. This is why we get the Dan. 11 Genealogy. 

Hi Rev man,

Now where in God`s word does it say the A/C is born in `Greece,` and where does it say he will come to power in the EU?

Note the Dan. 11 genealogy is about a REGION in the Middle East. 

`..his kingdom shall be broken up and divided...` (Dan. 11: 4)

That we know from history is Alexander`s kingdom which was divided up by his four generals. The kingdom of the north and the kingdom of the south are in reference to Israel where in is God`s focus of His prophetic word -  Assyria & Egypt.  

[Diaste]

13 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

The KOTS pushes at him {KOTN} and he {KOTN} wipes him out, we don't know exactly how the Hebrew Phareses it, I can find out, but I don't think it actually matters because its so obvious. 

41 He shall enter also into the glorious land, and many countries shall be overthrown: but these shall escape out of his hand, even Edom, and Moab, and the chief of the children of Ammon.

42 He shall stretch forth his hand also upon the countries: and the land of Egypt shall not escape.

43 But he shall have power over the treasures of gold and of silver, and over all the precious things of Egypt: and the Libyans and the Ethiopians shall be at his steps.

44 But tidings out of the east and out of the north shall trouble him: therefore he shall go forth with great fury to destroy, and utterly to make away many.

45 And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him.

King James Version (KJV)

Looks like he, him, his is used throughout this chapter. 

From v 36 to v 45 the pronouns refer to the one who "shall do according to his will". Every pronoun refers back to this subject. Not once is this person identified as either the KOTS or the KOTN when previous to v 36 the kings are identified.

So verse 40 should be read "And at the time of the end shall the king of the south push at the king who does according to his will: and the king of the north shall come against the king who does according to his will, like a whirlwind,"

If we go back a little further there is the same idea of a third king, the same willful king of v 36

"And in those times there shall many stand up against the king of the south: also the robbers of thy people shall exalt themselves to establish the vision; but they shall fall. So the king of the north shall come, and cast up a mount, and take the most fenced cities: and the arms of the south shall not withstand, neither his chosen people, neither [shall there be any] strength to withstand." 

So here the southern king is defeated. Many came against the southern king but as the Word says, "but they shall fall." Then the KOTN comes against the KOTS and the South loses; "the arms of the south shall not withstand" It's clearly identified in this passage who the players are and the outcome; the South loses to the North.

"But he that cometh against him shall do according to his own will, and none shall stand before him: and he shall stand in the glorious land, which by his hand shall be consumed."

But here we have another player. The same one as in v 36. Identified by the same language:

"he that cometh against him shall do according to his own will" - Verse 16

"And the king shall do according to his will" - Verse 36

So this is a new actor on the scene that none can stand against including the KOTN, but there is more.

 

In v 16 then there must be a third player that comes against the KOTN as the KOTS has been defeated by the KOTN and "he that cometh against him" must be addressed. We have already seen the South fall in spectacular fashion "neither [shall there be any] strength to withstand.", to the North and in verse 16 we  have a 'he' that rises against 'him', the victor of v 15 or the KOTN. It makes no sense to think in verse 16 that that KOTN is the 'he' and the KOTS is the 'him' as that skirmish has been decided. In v 15 we see the defeat of the military power of the South, his best army, and the lack of numbers or determination to defeat the KOTN. But this is limited to the KOTS and his military power where v 16 says, "none shall stand before him".

This king who does according to his will has a greater scope than does the KOTN and the language of v 16 points out we have a greater power coming against the winner of v 15, the direct antecedent to 'him' in v 16.

 

 

 

[Dennis1209]

13 hours ago, Charlie744 said:

Dennis, very nice to hear from you again! I appreciate any comments you may have. May I take a similar approach with you that I have recently with Marilyn (assuming she has interest)?  Can you tell me your opinion of who is identified in verse 21?  Also, please assume this individual is someone coming after 1 AD.... Thanks again, Charlie

Hey Charlie,

Daniel 11:21 (KJV) And in his estate shall stand up a vile person, to whom they shall not give the honour of the kingdom: but he shall come in peaceably, and obtain the kingdom by flatteries.  [emphasis added]

I believe 'his estate' refers to; office / rank, possessions, a political body.

In my opinion, there's no doubt verse 21 is identifying not antichrist's, but THE Antichrist; that comes and introduces the tribulation period. A 'vile person' is one of many names assigned to the Antichrist like the others [man of sin, lawless one, son of perdition, that wicked one, the little horn, the Beast, etc.]. 

The Websters 1828 dictionary defines his character [flatteries] in a number of places.

 

FLAT'TERING, ppr.

1. Gratifying with praise; pleasing by applause; wheedling; coaxing.

2. a. Pleasing to pride or vanity; gratifying to self-love; as a flattering eulogy. The minister gives a flattering account of his reception at court.

3. Pleasing; favorable; encouraging hope. We have a flattering prospect of an abundant harvest. The symptoms of the disease are flattering.

4. Practicing adulation; uttering false praise; as a flattering tongue.

Even at the present moment, the world is screaming for a person who can stop the economic disparities, threats of war and terrorism, climate change, religious disputes, fair trade, disparity between nations; and provide peace, security and stability.

Just my thoughts...

[Revelation Man]

15 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi Rev man,

Now where in God`s word does it say the A/C is born in `Greece,` and where does it say he will come to power in the EU?

Note the Dan. 11 genealogy is about a REGION in the Middle East. 

`..his kingdom shall be broken up and divided...` (Dan. 11: 4)

That we know from history is Alexander`s kingdom which was divided up by his four generals. The kingdom of the north and the kingdom of the south are in reference to Israel where in is God`s focus of His prophetic word -  Assyria & Egypt.  

Sure it does. Read Dan. 7, the Little Horn ARISES out pf the Fourth Beasts Head AND he ARISES out of one of the Four Generals Kingdoms in the latter time. Now please explain to me how both of those can happen without them being overlaid ? In other words he must ARISE out of two Kingdoms at once. God makes riddles that are very hard to understand on purpose, that way He has to reveal them Himself, people can't just figure out God's plans. But when they are revealed they should be very clear, but men have Men's Traditions, according to Jesus' speech to the Pharisees, its a hindrance to receiving  the things that are of God. 

Only Greece fits as per which one of the Four Generals he ARISES out of because only Greece is in the European Union {Fourth Beast} which would allow him to arise out of the head of the Fourth Beast.He thus must be born in Greece {Dan. 8} therefore he can COME TO POWER in the E.U. {Dan. 7}. Now we understand why we get a RUNDOWN of epic proportions via the Greek Kings Lineage. Only when people try to force their own ideas like the Muslim/Islam angle to they have to discard these passages above. 

If you think it has to be North and South as per Israel, then it will be the North African Nations that PUSH AT HIM in your opinion, I don't think the North and South has to be via Israel location on the map, but irregardless it changes nothing as per the Prophecy except who pushes at who, and to me that's irrelevant as per to who is the Anti-Christ, hes the King of the North, and Greece is indeed North of Israel. If you would read Dan. 8 REAL CLOSE it even tells you he comes from the Northwest, not just the North.

 Daniel 8:9 And out of one of them came forth a little horn, which waxed exceeding great, toward the south, and toward the east, and toward the pleasant land.

If you PUSH TOWARD the South and East that means you come from the NORTHWEST !! And Greece/European Union is Northwest of Israel. None of the others are Northwest of Israel. The bible gives us all the clues we need, we just have to put off Men's Ideas/Traditions.

 

[John n Claudia]

16 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Now where in God`s word does it say the A/C is born in `Greece,` and where does it say he will come to power in the EU?

Micah 5:5 tells us that the antichrist will come from Assyria.  There are also prophecies in Isiah chapters 7, 10 and 30 that also indicate that Assyria will persecute the Jews during the last days.  Many people overlook Revelation chapter 17 when the angel tells John that the Roman Empire must die and another empire must rise up.  The response when this is pointed out is that this is the empire of the antichrist, but in context, this empire must be similar to the six empires that came before it and so they must rule over an area that includes the Holy Land and they must defeat the previous empire.  Once you have this as your starting point and look at world history, it becomes obvious who the seventh empire is and where the empire of the antichrist must come from.

[Revelation Man]

7 hours ago, Diaste said:

From v 36 to v 45 the pronouns refer to the one who "shall do according to his will". Every pronoun refers back to this subject. Not once is this person identified as either the KOTS or the KOTN when previous to v 36 the kings are identified.

 

Yes he is, in verse 40..........Dan. 11:40 And at the time of the end shall the king of the south push at him: and the king of the north shall come against him like a whirlwind, with chariots, and with horsemen, and with many ships; and he shall enter into the countries, and shall overflow and pass over.

Its up to you if you want to look at it in a way that denies the obvious. Again, agendas make men look at things in all sorts of manners. Knowing that the Anti-Christ/KOTN doesn't get to Conquer Jordan where Israel {Woman} escapes to is a HUGE CLUE, it gives us that clue in verse 41

Dan. 11:41 He shall enter also into the glorious land, and many countries shall be overthrown: but these shall escape out of his hand, even Edom, and Moab, and the chief of the children of Ammon.

The Anti-Christ is forbidden by God from Conquering this area, because this is where Israel FLEE UNTO, Central and Southern Jordan. 

7 hours ago, Diaste said:

So verse 40 should be read "And at the time of the end shall the king of the south push at the king who does according to his will: and the king of the north shall come against the king who does according to his will, like a whirlwind,"

 

I will let you read it they way you want to brother, I find people who have already determined their understandings do this, they even switch between different bibles to gain a tactical advantage during a Debate {I used to do it also...LOL}. I learned it just means one has a preconceived idea, and we seek to justify it, instead of seeking God's POV on the subject, so I quit doing it and just starting accepting that many of my ideas were not right. But the truth is all of God's Holy word He wants to reveal unto us, if we let him overcome our ideas. 

7 hours ago, Diaste said:

If we go back a little further there is the same idea of a third king, the same willful king of v 36

"And in those times there shall many stand up against the king of the south: also the robbers of thy people shall exalt themselves to establish the vision; but they shall fall. So the king of the north shall come, and cast up a mount, and take the most fenced cities: and the arms of the south shall not withstand, neither his chosen people, neither [shall there be any] strength to withstand." 

So here the southern king is defeated. Many came against the southern king but as the Word says, "but they shall fall." Then the KOTN comes against the KOTS and the South loses; "the arms of the south shall not withstand" It's clearly identified in this passage who the players are and the outcome; the South loses to the North.

"But he that cometh against him shall do according to his own will, and none shall stand before him: and he shall stand in the glorious land, which by his hand shall be consumed."

But here we have another player. The same one as in v 36. Identified by the same language:

"he that cometh against him shall do according to his own will" - Verse 16

"And the king shall do according to his will" - Verse 36

So this is a new actor on the scene that none can stand against including the KOTN, but there is more.

 

In v 16 then there must be a third player that comes against the KOTN as the KOTS has been defeated by the KOTN and "he that cometh against him" must be addressed. We have already seen the South fall in spectacular fashion "neither [shall there be any] strength to withstand.", to the North and in verse 16 we  have a 'he' that rises against 'him', the victor of v 15 or the KOTN. It makes no sense to think in verse 16 that that KOTN is the 'he' and the KOTS is the 'him' as that skirmish has been decided. In v 15 we see the defeat of the military power of the South, his best army, and the lack of numbers or determination to defeat the KOTN. But this is limited to the KOTS and his military power where v 16 says, "none shall stand before him".

This king who does according to his will has a greater scope than does the KOTN and the language of v 16 points out we have a greater power coming against the winner of v 15, the direct antecedent to 'him' in v 16.

 

You are way off on your timeline if you think verse 16 is the SAME KING as in the end times verses 36-45. I assume you meant its the same style whereas there is a third person involved. But I don't see that in either case. 

Dan. 11:13 For the king of the north shall return, and shall set forth a multitude greater than the former, and shall certainly come after certain years with a great army and with much riches. 14 And in those times there shall many stand up against the king of the south: also the robbers of thy people shall exalt themselves to establish the vision; but they shall fall. 15 So the king of the north shall come, and cast up a mount, and take the most fenced cities: and the arms of the south shall not withstand, neither his chosen people, neither shall there be any strength to withstand. 16 But he that cometh against him shall do according to his own will, and none shall stand before him: and he shall stand in the glorious land, which by his hand shall be consumed.

This of course is the Fifth Syrian War. Antiochus III returned some years later with a much larger army and took the land of Israel by force.

Dan. 11:17 He shall also set his face to enter with the strength of his whole kingdom, and upright ones with him; thus shall he do: and he shall give him the daughter of women, corrupting her: but she shall not stand on his side, neither be for him.

Antiochus III gave his daughter Cleopatra to Ptolemy V for a wife, but she ended up siding with Ptolemy V over her father. Blood is not always thicker than water it seems !!
 

So I have done an Exegesis on the whole chapter, its obvious to me that the KOTN is the Anti-Christ. But people see what they see. I stand by my understanding here brother. 

[Revelation Man]

30 minutes ago, John n Claudia said:

Micah 5:5 tells us that the antichrist will come from Assyria.  There are also prophecies in Isiah chapters 7, 10 and 30 that also indicate that Assyria will persecute the Jews during the last days.  Many people overlook Revelation chapter 17 when the angel tells John that the Roman Empire must die and another empire must rise up.  The response when this is pointed out is that this is the empire of the antichrist, but in context, this empire must be similar to the six empires that came before it and so they must rule over an area that includes the Holy Land and they must defeat the previous empire.  Once you have this as your starting point and look at world history, it becomes obvious who the seventh empire is and where the empire of the antichrist must come from.

Micah 5:5 And this man shall be the peace, when the Assyrian shall come into our land: and when he shall tread in our palaces, then shall we raise against him seven shepherds, and eight principal men.

Now if you would reads all the other verses that says he comes from Greece and comes to power in the E. U. with the same conviction you would get the full pictures. My blog on this is 4 or 5 years old.

The Birthplace of the Anti-Christ Revealed

Isaiah says the Anti-Christ is an Assyrian. The Anti-Christ is said to come to power via the fourth beast in the last days per Daniel Chapter Seven. The Anti-Christ is also said to arise out of the Grecian empire in the last days, so how do we reconcile these different understandings ?

This is established fairly easily, Daniel did say the understandings would be bound up until the end. The Anti-Christ in Daniel chapters seven and eight is shown, if read properly, to arise out of two kingdoms at once, but how can this be ?

Daniel chapter seven is fairly straightforward, we understand this to be about the four beast systems, the fourth beast is where the little horn (Anti-Christ) will arise out of, most everyone understands the fourth beast to have been Rome, but in the last days/end times this has to be the European Union. Or some Rome Centric kingdom that comes together shortly.

Daniel chapter eight is explained in detail by Gabriel the angel, it is the he goat (Alexander the Great) conquering Persia (the Ram) and Gabriel interpreted this dream for Daniel.

Daniel 8:19 And he said, Behold, I will make thee know what shall be in the last end of indignation: for at the time appointed the end shall be.

We should note, this is speaking of the end time, it is not speaking of Antiochus who came before Jesus was even born. The word Indignation means: (Hebrew Word za’am meaning Gods Fury at Sin) so at the Last End of Indignation means right before Gods Judgment of Sin/Vials or Bowls of Gods Wrath (Revelation/Seven Vials of Wrath).

(Gabriel’s Interpretation) Daniel 8:20 The ram which thou sawest having two horns are the kings of Media and Persia. 21 And the rough goat is the king of Grecia: and the great horn that is between his eyes is the first king. 22 Now that being broken, whereas four stood up for it, four kingdoms shall stand up out of the nation, but not in his power. (The Four Generals that stood up in Alexanders stead were Ptolemy , Seleucus , Cassander and Lysimachus. )

23 And in the latter time of their kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the full, a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up.

This is clearly speaking about the end times/last days when the sins have come full/ bowls of Gods wrath, a fierce king shall arise out of one of the four kingdoms that stood up in Alexander the Greats Stead, speaking dark sentences (understanding riddles and conundrums) and he comes to power.

24 And his power shall be mighty, but not by his own power: (Satan gives him his Seat/Power) and he shall destroy wonderfully, and shall prosper, and practise, and shall destroy the mighty and the holy people. 25 And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, (he claims to Be God) and by peace shall destroy many: (Through peace treaties he deceives many) he shall also stand up against the Prince (Jesus) of princes; but he shall be broken without hand.

Jesus destroys the Anti-Christ his kings and their armies without hand (with the Sword of the Spirit/Holy Spirit) by the countenance of his coming, Amen. This guy magnifies himself and says in the temple of God, I am God !!

Now, so many people say chapter eight is about Antiochus, so I always feel the need to prove that this is about the end times, when Gods wrath is come full. This is about the Little Horn/Anti-Christ. And he arises out of their kingdom in the last days, so in essence he arises out of one of the Four Generals kingdoms in the last days, but which one ? Well, since the Anti-Christ arises out of the fourth beast also, then this other Kingdom has to lie within the borders of the European Union.

Only Cassander’s kingdom of Greece (Macedonia) is in the European Union. The “Assyrian” arising from Greece would be very, very plausible since Greece shares a common border with Turkey, and many, many Turks live in Greece, so the Assyrian Anti-Christ is born in Greece, and comes to power in Greece, then in the European Union. But what does John say in Revelation about the Beast that arises out of the Sea ?

Rev. 13:2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.

The Main body is described by John as like a leopard !!

Put it all together, the “Assyrian” Anti-Christ is born in Greece, of Turkish parents or grandparents, he comes to power in the European Union.

This is where the Anti-Christ is from.

[John n Claudia]

@Revelation Man, why are you so insistent that the antichrist has to come from the EU when there is so much Bible prophecy that indicates that the antichrist is not coming from the EU?  When there are obvious contradictions between my beliefs and what the Bible says, I always trust the Bible more than myself and go back to reexamine my assumptions and find out where I went wrong.  I have had to do this multiple times over the past few years before I was finally able to reject the incorrect teachings about the end times that I learned from my church and the Bible studies and books that I read. 

Because I did this and listened to the corrections of the Holy Spirit, the Lord was able to show me a timeline of end time events that not only fits with every end time prophecy I have examined, it also shows how Satan and the antichrist will use the incorrect teachings to deceive the world into believing that the antichrist really is Jesus returned in the flesh.

The beliefs that I had to abandon include, but are not limited to the following:

• The Tribulation will start with a peace treaty in the Middle East.
• The antichrist comes from Europe and the beast is the EU.
• The church will be raptured before the tribulation starts.
• The church will return to rule with Jesus on the Earth during the Millennial Kingdom.
• Armageddon is a battle between God and man, and Jesus will lead God's forces to victory.

I am confident that I will get a lot of flak for saying that these five things are all false.  All five of these are widely held beliefs and there does appear to be Biblical support for all of them.  However a close examination of Biblical prophecy will show that none of these is true.  The belief about the battle of Armageddon is especially heinous because the antichrist is going to be leading one of the armies in that battle and when he secures the victory, Christians around the world will believe that the antichrist truly is Jesus in his second coming and will abandon their faith in the true God in order to worship the antichrist.