Rapture before the antichrist in Matthew 24

[Diaste]

16 hours ago, The Light said:

The truth is not swept under the rug. Here's the truth

Gen 7

⁹ There went in two and two unto Noah into the ark, the male and the female, as God had commanded Noah.

¹⁰ And it came to pass after seven days, that the waters of the flood were upon the earth.

Not sure how you can draw a different conclusion than what is clearly presented in the Word.

Not addressing this any longer. 

"You are free to eat."

"Am I?"

"Are you?"

[choir loft]

22 hours ago, Diaste said:

What is the issue here? I'm asking from more of a personal perspective. Seems you have a problem with me. If so, just come out with it.

I don't know you.   I cannot have a problem with you personally because of that lack of personal contact.  I do, however, have problems with your logic references accusations and assumptions.

Your perspective is erratic and uninformed with regard to accepted scholarly method and interpretation (not unusual for post modern Christians, btw).   Your attack upon me, saying I was lying about the events of the head injury and healing of the beast, is that of ignorance and presupposition arising from a flawed frame of reference.

For instance, when you asked about "age" I assume you were referring to the vagaries of Dispensationalism as formulated by John Nelson Darby, a heretic of the 19th century.   Darby attempted to interpret history in the form of "ages" as in the "church age", "age of grace" as in Supersessionism and as in a flawed and confused idea of the End Times among other "ages".   

In point of fact, there is no separation of ages as man defines them.  The Bible indicates a divine aggressive refinement of redemption.  There is no basic difference between how a man got saved in the days of King David and today - according to the LAW.

Once again, I apologize for misunderstanding your confusion on the subject.  

I didn't dare address your other concerns because I knew you wouldn't get to first base on the first discussion. 

 that's me, hollering from the choir loft....

[choir loft]

22 hours ago, Diaste said:

Just noticed how off topic this is. I was addressing the timing of the gathering. Got any input there?

Not off topic.   

AGAIN, your posts are all over the place and not focused at all.  I attempted to address a single issue.  You are unclear about my response and reacted against it without consideration - a clear indication you speak from dogma and not from study.  Since you are unwilling or unable to follow my explanation, allow me to go to the nut of the issue - the post modern heresy of the rapture.

Rapturists, of which you appear to be one, exhibit considerable confusion about their vertical fantasies.  They don't even agree with each other about when their supposed poof event is supposed to happen.

For instance, scripture indicates the advent of the Christ will happen three times.  [1]

One has already happened and two are in human future.  Rapturists are unable to correctly formulate or agree amongst themselves as to when their cloud party will happen - advent #1.5, #2, #2.5 or #3?  Heretical interpretations abound and no rapture fan is really certain of a party line on this issue.  They are all very certain of their uncertainty.

What actually will or will not happen is outside the realm of accepted thought to them.  It's outside and beyond their understanding because they are hung up on DOGMA, not plain text of scripture.  1 Corinthians 14:33 says God is not the author of confusion.  Rapturists are confused about their dogma because it doesn't come from God.

What follows is an example, taken from Luke 17:20-37 description of the coming of the kingdom.  First, though, let's look at Matthew 3:12.  It describes the process of harvesting the saints and cutting out the tares.

His winnowing fork is in his hand, and he will clear his threshing floor, gathering his wheat into the barn and burning up the chaff with unquenchable fire. - John the Immerser as quoted by Matthew 3:12

John is telling us here that two groups of people will be dealt with separately.  Sinners will be collected, taken to an unknown location, and destroyed.  The Just, described here as useful wheat, will be collected into the Master's barn.  A similar description of the judgement of humans is told by Jesus as related in the gospel of Luke.

"I tell you, on that night two people will be in one bed: One will be taken and the other left.  Two women will be grinding grain together: One will be taken and the other left.

Where, Lord?” they asked. 

Jesus answered, “Wherever there is a carcass, there the vultures will gather.” - Jesus as quoted by Luke 17:34-37

Rapturists take the above portion of scripture out of context, not to glean truth but to justify their heretical version of Judgment Day - to justify their false ascension.   They do NOT read what the scripture really says.   Read it again for the first time.

Who is taken and who is left?

Rapturists would have the world believe it's a good thing to be "taken", but they don't read to the end of Jesus' story (or John's).   Those who are "taken" go to a place of refuse, a dump, to gehenna also called the Lake of Fire or the Second Death.  Read the last words.  Do they speak of a banquet in the clouds surrounded by angels or do  they speak of rotting dead bodies and demonic creatures?

THINK, MAN.

What do the words actually say?   Does proper interpretation require substitution of lies and innuendo for clear and simple language?   Read the words.  They say that those who are left upon the earth are the blessed of God.

Post modern Christians have chosen to believe the dogma of a 19th century spiritualist, who was the consort of witches [2], rather than the Bible.

Clear language, interpreted clearly and simply, results in truth - however uncomfortable that may be.

that's me, hollering from the choir loft....

[1] Jesus is described as messiah.  Messiah means "anointed one".  Only three types of men were anointed in the Bible; prophets, priests, and kings.  Jesus came to us two thousand years ago as a prophet with healing and good news in His hand.  He will come the second time as priest - as judge of mankind.   He will come the third time as king to rule the earth with a rod of iron.

[2] John Nelson Darby, the father of modern Dispensationalism and the author of the Rapture heresy as we know it today.

Edited February 20, 2020 by choir loft

[Revelation Man]

5 hours ago, Diaste said:

9 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

And what if there is no pretrib rapture? Generations will be unprepared. This is the insidious nature of lying doctrine, it leaves one exposed, weak and ill prepared. What do they have to overcome? If taken pretrib there is no overcoming. No need. Why prepare? No need. Pretrib promotes a weak spirituality, bereaving the church of it's strength in the Lord.  

 

BUT..............There is a Rapture. Don't lead our youth wrongly brother, you are called to hear the Spirit. Don't get caught up in what you once believed, I love when God reproves me, it means I am learning from the ALL KNOWING God !!

Have an open mind my friend, then God can show us.....I had to change a blog I spent months on in my Babylon Blog because God spoke to me and said, Rome is wrong Ron..... I am OK with being wrong, so I heard His voice, I was annoyed I spent all that time writing my Blog for naught, but that was OK, because I learned truth, and that is our objective brother.

[Diaste]

22 hours ago, choir loft said:

I don't know you.   I cannot have a problem with you personally because of that lack of personal contact.  I do, however, have problems with your logic references accusations and assumptions.

Your perspective is erratic and uninformed with regard to accepted scholarly method and interpretation (not unusual for post modern Christians, btw).   Your attack upon me, saying I was lying about the events of the head injury and healing of the beast, is that of ignorance and presupposition arising from a flawed frame of reference.

For instance, when you asked about "age" I assume you were referring to the vagaries of Dispensationalism as formulated by John Nelson Darby, a heretic of the 19th century.   Darby attempted to interpret history in the form of "ages" as in the "church age", "age of grace" as in Supersessionism and as in a flawed and confused idea of the End Times among other "ages".   

In point of fact, there is no separation of ages as man defines them.  The Bible indicates a divine aggressive refinement of redemption.  There is no basic difference between how a man got saved in the days of King David and today - according to the LAW.

Once again, I apologize for misunderstanding your confusion on the subject.  

I didn't dare address your other concerns because I knew you wouldn't get to first base on the first discussion. 

 that's me, hollering from the choir loft....

That assumes you are inherently correct and I am inherently wrong. While I appreciate your position that does not make for a strong proposition. Not sure anyone one person has exclusive rights to intellectual high ground nor can be the ultimate authority on any subject, method, exegesis or interpretation. 

I don't care if 1000 scholars wrote 10,000 books, that in no way guarantees truth or accuracy.

Good point that I am "uninformed with regard to accepted scholarly method and interpretation".  I will continue in that vein. Appeals to authority fall on deaf ears with me, you'll have to do better than that.

We do agree on Darby. 

No idea when or how I did this, "Your attack upon me, saying I was lying about the events of the head injury and healing of the beast" Perhaps you could present the quotes? I'm not sure I was addressing you directly or that you just jumped into the fray. Perhaps you are assuming and accusing? I happy you have a problem with what I say. Let's set emotions aside and dig in to the issue.

Edited February 21, 2020 by Diaste

[Diaste]

On 2/20/2020 at 6:24 AM, choir loft said:

Not off topic.   

AGAIN, your posts are all over the place and not focused at all.  I attempted to address a single issue.  You are unclear about my response and reacted against it without consideration - a clear indication you speak from dogma and not from study.  Since you are unwilling or unable to follow my explanation, allow me to go to the nut of the issue - the post modern heresy of the rapture.

If my posts are unfocused, and or generally unorganized, you are the first and only person to say so. I disagree. It feels more like a shaming tactic. I've seen it before. Not sure what you mean by heresy of the rapture. It will happen. It's never called 'rapture' in scripture; it's the gathering of us to Him.

Personally I don't lend credence to any conclusion of any person that does not align with the normal everyday reading of the words in scripture. Most opinions are formed with out of context verses or fragments ignoring precedent and historical examples and needlessly complicate clear language. 

It's great you have an opinion. But it's just an opinion and your apparent deep conviction is not an indicator of accuracy or truth.

Quote

Rapturists, of which you appear to be one, exhibit considerable confusion about their vertical fantasies.  They don't even agree with each other about when their supposed poof event is supposed to happen.

For instance, scripture indicates the advent of the Christ will happen three times.  [1]

One has already happened and two are in human future.  Rapturists are unable to correctly formulate or agree amongst themselves as to when their cloud party will happen - advent #1.5, #2, #2.5 or #3?  Heretical interpretations abound and no rapture fan is really certain of a party line on this issue.  They are all very certain of their uncertainty.

What actually will or will not happen is outside the realm of accepted thought to them.  It's outside and beyond their understanding because they are hung up on DOGMA, not plain text of scripture.  1 Corinthians 14:33 says God is not the author of confusion.  Rapturists are confused about their dogma because it doesn't come from God.

Yep, there are many stories about the gathering. Seems every group has it's own idea. Scripture indicates a gathering of the elect will occur after the A of D and the self exaltation of the beast in the Temple. The only gathering extant. 

Quote

What follows is an example, taken from Luke 17:20-37 description of the coming of the kingdom.  First, though, let's look at Matthew 3:12.  It describes the process of harvesting the saints and cutting out the tares.

His winnowing fork is in his hand, and he will clear his threshing floor, gathering his wheat into the barn and burning up the chaff with unquenchable fire. - John the Immerser as quoted by Matthew 3:12

John is telling us here that two groups of people will be dealt with separately.  Sinners will be collected, taken to an unknown location, and destroyed.  The Just, described here as useful wheat, will be collected into the Master's barn.  A similar description of the judgement of humans is told by Jesus as related in the gospel of Luke.

It seems you switched up here. The wheat, being the saved, is gathered. Your take is that the chaff, being the sinners, is gathered. The quote from Matt 3:12, "gathering his wheat into the barn" shows the wheat taken up into the barn and the chaff left. Then you say the sinners are taken. That doesn't jive.

Quote

"I tell you, on that night two people will be in one bed: One will be taken and the other left.  Two women will be grinding grain together: One will be taken and the other left.

Where, Lord?” they asked. 

That theme continues here. The saved are taken, the chaff left.

Quote

Jesus answered, “Wherever there is a carcass, there the vultures will gather.” - Jesus as quoted by Luke 17:34-37

This is an idiom. There is disagreement among scholars about this. From the eagle of Rome to birds devouring flesh at Armageddon and more, there is no consensus. Your take is just one more in a cornucopia.

In the full context:

" Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed. In that day, he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back. Remember Lot's wife. Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it. I tell you, in that night there shall be two [men] in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left. Two [women] shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Two [men] shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body [is], thither will the eagles be gathered together."

This is speaking to the end of the age when Jesus is revealed. Jesus goes on to talk about who shall be saved and what behavior leads to salvation. According to historical biblical example then, the taken are the saved and those left undergo the pressure of the Lord's pleading with them. The very last sentence is the answer to "And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord?" The context of, "Wheresoever the body [is], thither will the eagles be gathered together." is in response to the query, "Where?" In the simplest form of understanding the answer is "Wherever." Just like the need of the eagles purpose everywhere on earth the "the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left" will occur everywhere. 

 

Quote

Rapturists take the above portion of scripture out of context, not to glean truth but to justify their heretical version of Judgment Day - to justify their false ascension.   They do NOT read what the scripture really says.   Read it again for the first time.

Who is taken and who is left?

Rapturists would have the world believe it's a good thing to be "taken", but they don't read to the end of Jesus' story (or John's).   Those who are "taken" go to a place of refuse, a dump, to gehenna also called the Lake of Fire or the Second Death.  Read the last words.  Do they speak of a banquet in the clouds surrounded by angels or do  they speak of rotting dead bodies and demonic creatures?

THINK, MAN.

What do the words actually say?   Does proper interpretation require substitution of lies and innuendo for clear and simple language?   Read the words.  They say that those who are left upon the earth are the blessed of God.

In a vacuum perhaps. But we see from the prior events such as the flood and Lot that the righteous were gathered or taken. Noah and the animals gathered into the ark just like wheat gathered into the barn, and Lot physically taken out of Sodom. Since Jesus is the Alpha and Omega and is the same yesterday, today and forever, I'm going with the righteous taken and the rebellious left. 

Quote

Post modern Christians have chosen to believe the dogma of a 19th century spiritualist, who was the consort of witches [2], rather than the Bible.

Clear language, interpreted clearly and simply, results in truth - however uncomfortable that may be.

that's me, hollering from the choir loft....

[1] Jesus is described as messiah.  Messiah means "anointed one".  Only three types of men were anointed in the Bible; prophets, priests, and kings.  Jesus came to us two thousand years ago as a prophet with healing and good news in His hand.  He will come the second time as priest - as judge of mankind.   He will come the third time as king to rule the earth with a rod of iron.

[2] John Nelson Darby, the father of modern Dispensationalism and the author of the Rapture heresy as we know it today.

I can't possibly come to a conclusion about a major point of doctrine based on a single thought. It's not a revelation that the wheat is stored and the chaff destroyed, that theme exists throughout scripture and those events have manifested several times in history as God saved His people and defeated the rebellious. It's well known and well established. 

You'll have to prove from scripture that Jesus comes three times. Not taking your word or the word of any person as truth.

 

Edited February 22, 2020 by Diaste

[Retrobyter]

On 2/16/2020 at 5:30 AM, Revelation Man said:

 

Which means EXACTLY what I stated..........If the earth is not Organized that means its fabric has not yet formed, and its an EMPTY SPACE.

Shalom, Revelation Man.

Actually, that's not what I said, because you don't understand what the word "earth" means. "Earth" in the Bible doesn't refer to the planet; it refers to the GROUND, the DIRT, the LAND! The Hebrew word "erets" is also used multiple times as "Erets Yisra'eel," the "Land of Israel." The planet was ALREADY PRESENT! However, the SURFACE of the planet was not organized. It's not an "empty space"; it's a disorganized mess of solid, liquid, and gas. The liquid was on the top of the solid, and the gas was a minimum of water vapor above the liquid. The WIND (RUWACH) of God blew across the surface of the waters.

What you don't get is that the Creation Week was about the creation of this planet's BIOSPHERE!

Quote

You are fighting a losing battle. You will understand exactly how old the Universe was/is when you get to Heaven.

LOL! I'm not going to "Heaven!" I don't believe that ANYONE has or will. As lonely and depressing as it may be to some, I believe we all go to our "long house" at death and await the Resurrection. We ARE our bodies! That's what a "soul" is! It's a "breathing creature!" Hard to have a "soul" if we aren't "breathing!" We do not have an "eternal soul" UNLESS and UNTIL we are raised to eternal life or transformed to eternal life at the Messiah's coming!

And, YOU will not undersand exactly how old the Universe was/is until you are raised to newness of life and can ASK the Messiah Yeshua` who was the Word of God at Creation.

Quote

I am going to spread the truth now however so as not to push people away from the truths of God. People already to wrong by celebrating Santa Clause, thereby our kids think Jesus is just another "WHITE LIE" when they get to college and learn things these college professors teach them, you see, they give them half truths of Satan, they show them facts and tell them {in an off handed manner} that Christians believe the earth is 6000 years old, you can't believe anything your folks tell you man !! Which is why they need to be told the truth, so they have a shot at understanding, they can say "HEY.....I know the universe is 13.7 billion years old, but God Created it over 13.7 billion years". 

We don't really know HOW old the Universe is. It's all a matter of how one interprets the facts. Facts alone don't tell ANYONE that the "Universe is 13.7 billion years old." However, an Evolutionist NEEDS that much time to provide a "plausible" time frame for the "accident" of life! They think that the evolution of life is honestly like monkeys hitting keys on a typewriter over and over again at random until they've accidentally typed out Shakespeare's "Hamlet!" What YOU are doing is ACCOMMODATING the theory of Evolution! That's not helpful to ANYONE!

What we need to do is galvanize our children AGAINST the lies of Evolution that are alleged by the academians of our secular colleges and universities. But, you can't do that if you're going to say they are right about the age of the Universe! See, you, too, have been DUPED by their lies!

Quote

Actually we can see back through time with our modern telescopes to see what happened millions of years ago; didn't you know that? 

 

The Hubble Space Telescope can see objects even more distant than your eyes can. When it takes a picture of a galaxy 100 million light years away, we are seeing the galaxy as it looked 100 million years ago.

So we can see the Galaxies forming in some instances. Galaxies still form, the Universe is expanding.

Well, that's a load of rubbish! God created LIGHT, not the SOURCE of light! He didn't create the sun and wait around for the light to get to earth, nor did He create stars and wait around for the light from distant galaxies to get to earth! I'll say it again; so, listen closely (or read carefully): God did not create SOURCES (STARS, NEBULAE, GALAXIES, ETC.) of the light first! He created LIGHT first! THEN, He created the "stars also," almost as an afterthought! He created them to perpetuate the LIGHT He had already created! You are NOT seeing the "history" of the Universe in the light that you see; you are seeing what God wanted to show you through the corpuscular packets of electromagnetic energy - a terrific display of His GREAT CREATIVE POWER!

Quote

Scientist refer to it as a biospheric dome, of course its not a real dome per se, its used in a metaphorical way; the gravity creates an atmospheric dome.

Call it what you may, I will use this terminology. 

Whatever. Just know that it's not a dome.

Quote

I don't worry about Evolutionists; they are wrong, but so are you guys. Think about it, if you are wrong, and you are, then you are doing what they are doing on the other extreme. They cause people to not follow God because they have been deceived and thus they in turn deceive others. You can't reach those they have deceived because they can't buy your 6000 years {what they see as fairy tale} creation story. Our job is to reach people by using truth. If you get to heaven {and this will happen} and you find out the Universe is actually 13.7 billion years old, then how will you feel ? By the way, that WMAP Map actually shows the Universe as mapped out by Microwaves, its a REAL PICTURE !! We have a picture of the Universe.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Modern Hebrew has only 33 k words, there are no Vowels in Hebrew !! The Hebrew at Jesus' time had like 8 K words, and at the time Genesis was written had only 3 K words, not the 4 K I thought, {I learned that tonight}. So that is all that matters, when Genesis was written.

 

It means a PERIOD OF TIME or an EPOCH. It most certainly does. The Universe is 13.7 billion years old, not 6000 years old.

 

There was 400 Million Years of DARKNESS....thats why the Evening CAME FIRST !! You get it now ? Then TO BE HOT........The Stars started forming, that is why its called a Day, God's Days of Creating went from DARKNESS for 400 Million Years to STARS {to be hot}. Our Sun was not Created until 4.5 billion years ago and thus was not around for the first 9.2 billion years, thus the First Day lasted 9.2 billion years. The same guys that can't see this can't see the Rapture !! It is what it is brother.

 

Its mapped out, we can see back in time, we have a picture of it and by using the constants we know exactly why the universe had to be the size it is. 

 

Its a Map of the Universe that shows Gods holy word is correct via THE DARKNESS, and you are so proud of your belief you are going to miss out on that great thrill of a discovery. You see, when I tell Atheists these things it shakes them to their core because  gave one upped their lies. The Universe being CREATED now makes sense. God even spoke that there was DARKNESS on the face of the deep, and the sun was not created on the fourth day because the stars came  first THEN the Sun was created and the Seasons came about on day four because the Earth and Moon CLASHED into each other, then the moon became our satellite. I love how Atheists run when I explain the Creation as it actually happened unto them. But  they aren't afraid of what you guys are telling them at all, they still think their logic wins out. 

 

Facts...you can't follow them because you are too wed to an IDEA brother. No one believes in Evolution, thats just you speaking that jargon, we believe God created the Universe over a 13.7 billion year period of time and that God created man 6000 some odd years ago. 

Let me ask you to be honest as the day is long here, do you really believe Adam named ALL THE ANIMALS in ONE DAY ? Come on now, did he did he not ? You see, the six day lasted for 300 million years until God RESTED, and we are still in Gods rest. This way Adam could name all the animals over MANY YEARS and that is what happened, of course. 

 

Seasons were created when the moon became the earths Satellite, it most certainly was, you might want to look it up, the earth and moon clashed about 4 billion years ago and that is why we have the Seasons we do, without the moon this earths weather would be nigh uninhabitable, we would have waves 1000 feet high, and 1/3's of the earth would have no sun, and ice would cover most of the earth etc. etc. Without the moon we would have really VIOLENT WEATHER, Google that and see if I am right, I didn't just right that blog sir, I studied for months on these things. Here is a tidbit of what I found BELOW:

What would happen to Earth’s Climate and Weather if we had no Moon?
Anthony Watts / February 15, 2019
A provocative hypothetical question: What if the Moon was not there? Video follows.

This giant rock lights up the night and can even change colors. So what would we do without it? Would we all need night vision goggles? How would it affect the ocean tides? Our seasons? Or our sleep cycles? Or would the consequences be far more drastic?

As the closest celestial body to our planet, the moon exerts a gravitational pull that governs much of what happens here on Earth Take the sea, for example. If you like surfing, you can thank the moon when the moon’s gravitational pull tugs on our spinning Earth, the oceans respond, giving us high tides in some parts of the world, and low tides elsewhere.

…

The Earth would speed up it’s rotation, giving us days of six to eight hours long.

Rotating at that speed, we would experience winds up to 480 kms per hour (300 mph). Birds and insects would have no chance of survival.

Earth’s axial plane would vary by some 10 degrees, causing dramatic shifts in seasons, and rendering our climate uninhabitable. Most crops would die with the drastic temperature changes. We’d experience the worst ice ages known to man, as huge glaciers from the north and south poles would encroach upon the Earth, covering everything except perhaps a small band along the equator.

Go to YOUTUBE and TYPE IN......What if we lost the moon ?

You can watch a 3 1/2 minute video on the subject. So I am pretty spot on here brother, there would basically be no life on earth without the moon, and thus the Fourth Day gave us our SEASONS, go read it again !! 

 

Well we know the Asteroid that hit in the Gulf of Mexico wiped them out some 70 million years ago brother. We are using oil that came from the Dinos right ? They couldn't survive that asteroid strike, so you might say God wiped them out in order to bring mankind forth.

 

These animals do not have Souls. They return to the earth and, IMHO, when God creates the New Jerusalem He will recreate many of these animals, who will keep their simple lives forever, but they will never be like us men who become immortal souls. Now I can't prove this, its just an educated guess. But I do know they are not immortal like mankind. 

What we do know is via Nuclear Fusion the Universe had to be the EXACT SIZE it is or the Universe would have never came into being. 

Universe size matters!
Besides spiritual reasons, there are also physical constraints on the minimum (and maximum) mass of the universe. The universe could not have been much smaller than it is in order for nuclear fusion to have occurred during the first 3 minutes after the Big Bang. Without this brief period of nucleosynthesis, the early universe would have consisted entirely of hydrogen. Without helium (comprising ~24% of the matter in the universe), heavy element production in stars is not possible, so that no rocky planets would have ever existed in the entire history of the universe.

Likewise, the universe could not have been a much more massive than it is, or life would not have been possible. If the universe were just one part in 10/59 more massive, the universe would have collapsed before life was possible. Since there are only 10/80 baryons in the universe, this means that an addition of just 10/21 baryons (at 1.67x10−27 kg/baryon equals 1.7 mg of matter - equal to a grain of sand) would have made life impossible! The universe is exactly the size it must be for life to exist at all.

 

 

[Diaste]

On 2/20/2020 at 8:34 AM, Revelation Man said:

BUT..............There is a Rapture. Don't lead our youth wrongly brother, you are called to hear the Spirit. Don't get caught up in what you once believed, I love when God reproves me, it means I am learning from the ALL KNOWING God !!

Have an open mind my friend, then God can show us.....I had to change a blog I spent months on in my Babylon Blog because God spoke to me and said, Rome is wrong Ron..... I am OK with being wrong, so I heard His voice, I was annoyed I spent all that time writing my Blog for naught, but that was OK, because I learned truth, and that is our objective brother.

Not saying there isn't. Just saying the timing needs to be ascertained with the highest degree of accuracy based on fact from the source material, in this case scripture. I actually began as what can only be called a Pretrib, Dispensationalist, Replacement, Premillennial guy. Over time, as I began to check the references in scripture that were in the books written by all these teachers I found most of it was unsupported. It's not that I cannot learn and change, I already have. It's not that I would never embrace Pretrib, I just don't find the fact in the Word to back it up.

That's interesting...Rome is wrong? In what way?

 

[Revelation Man]

23 hours ago, Diaste said:

Not saying there isn't. Just saying the timing needs to be ascertained with the highest degree of accuracy based on fact from the source material, in this case scripture. I actually began as what can only be called a Pretrib, Dispensationalist, Replacement, Premillennial guy. Over time, as I began to check the references in scripture that were in the books written by all these teachers I found most of it was unsupported. It's not that I cannot learn and change, I already have. It's not that I would never embrace Pretrib, I just don't find the fact in the Word to back it up.

That's interesting...Rome is wrong? In what way?

 

Its not a stand in for Babylon, as I originally stated in my Blog....It was standing tall and proud on my Blog site, I had it all figured out. Babylon was a code word for Rome, then I was shown.....NOPE !! You gonna have to redo that blog, which I did, to this below:

So I was shown Babylon is not a city, its not a place, its not NYC, America etc. etc. etc., its a CODE WORD alright, but its a code word for the Governments of the earth as led by Satan. Babel means confused, Babylon hence means mankind is confused by Satan. In Rev. 16:19 when Jesus defeats the Kings of the WHOLE WORLD {as the 6th Vial says/calls them} God calls those He defeated Babylon the great in verse 19. God calls them that, I saw it, and the holy spirit was like, there is your answer Ron.....I had asked why so many Christians had multiple answers on who Babylon is, who the Harlot is, what the Beast is and I got.......Because you guys already know it all Ron. So I started asking for insight instead of assuming things of old. That one action began to allow the holy spirit to teach me/flood me with things I had not seen before, like Babylon being the Government side of the two headed coin. The False Religious Harlot RIDES the Satanic Government Beast down through the ages, From Egypt to Babylon to the Anti-Christ. 

Stop looking at the TIMING...it can deceive us, you know why many of today's professors don't believe the Exodus actually took place? Because they are searching for the Evidence in the wrong Centuries/Time frames. Rammsees was not the Pharaoh of the Exodus. {Watch the movie Patterns of Evidence: Exodus.} if you get a chance, I own it on Amazon Prime in my Library. Anyway, look for the Patterns of Evidence in the bible about the pre trib Rapture, its there. Everything meshes. God's word always does this, even on simple things like why was there a Law to bury the dung 3000 years ago, and the answer is clear even to the Atheist, its not because the Jews knew about germs, LOL, its because God knew about germs. I always get them on that. No one else did this but the Jews, even in the 1300's the Europeans Black Death came from rats eating dung flowing down the side of the roads. God knew about Germs 3000 years ago because God is ALL KNOWING, of course. The Jews left Egypt 250 to 300 years before the time they look for them to have left, thus they can't find proof of the Exodus. The Woman Scientist who studied Jericho says that the walls fell down and the city burned, BUT it happened way before Israel was ever a nation, BUT....shes wrong. Shes taken an IDEA.....allowed that idea to OVERRIDE the evidence, and its blinded her to the truth, or it did, shes dead now. Many others are just like her. Watch the movie, you will love it. 

Likewise, there is a pattern of evidence for the Rapture in God's every move that Hes made. The timing doesn't matter if the Evidence is there for the Pre Trib Rapture of the Church. Once someone sees these patterns, like the Jewish Wedding Pattern, the Seven Feasts Pattern, the Church in Heaven in Rev. 4 and 5 before the Seals are opened, etc. etc. he can start to see these things.

Edited February 23, 2020 by Revelation Man

[Last Daze]

2 hours ago, Diaste said:

Not saying there isn't. Just saying the timing needs to be ascertained with the highest degree of accuracy based on fact from the source material, in this case scripture. I actually began as what can only be called a Pretrib, Dispensationalist, Replacement, Premillennial guy. Over time, as I began to check the references in scripture that were in the books written by all these teachers I found most of it was unsupported. It's not that I cannot learn and change, I already have. It's not that I would never embrace Pretrib, I just don't find the fact in the Word to back it up.

Similar experience here, too.  There's nothing to be gained from giving preference to one's biases.  The truth remains the same and prophecy will come to pass according to the will of God, not the wishes of men.