Rapture before the antichrist in Matthew 24

[The Light]

1 hour ago, DeighAnn said:

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Revelation 17:2 With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.
The whole world is whoring after Satan, believing that Satan, who has been kicked out of heaven with his angels,  who is now CLAIMING TO BE CHRIST RETURNED, has been taken in and the SPIRITUAL DEATH OF SOULS is running rampant.  People taking the mark and have NO IDEA they are being deceived

The whore is Babylon. You are completely making a statement that is taken out of context. You are saying that the world is whoring after Satan. That statement has absolutely nothing to do with Babylon.

 

 

 

 

[The Light]

7 hours ago, Oseas Ramos de Siqueira said:

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No, no true, the 10 horns have not any power to make Judgment, the 10 horns make part of the structures of Beast. Why did not you quote Scriptures that may give some support to your assertion?  

The reason that I did not quote scripture is because I already quoted it in a previous post. Here it is again. 

Rev 17

1 And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters:

Rev 17

¹⁶ And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.

¹⁷ For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.

It clearly shows that the judgment of the whore, Babylon, is carried out by the 10 horns as God put it in their hearts to fulfill His will.

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Who REALLY has Power to Judge the Whore 0r Babylon - is Michael - Revelation 19:v.11 and Revelation 12:v.7 speak of his Judgment and War - and he has Power to make War against the Beast of sea that has 7 heads, and 10 horns, and also against the TAIL of the Dragon. 

According to the Word, the judgment is carried out by the 10 horns. You seem to be taking things totally out of context. Michael has nothing to do with it.

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Revelation 17:v.16-17 - 16 And the 10 horns which thou sawest UPON the Beast - UPON the Beast of sea, the FIRST Beast, therefore, the 10 horns make part of the structures of Beast of sea-, these -10 horns - shall HATE the WHORE (not Judge her), and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.  Why?  What is written? Rev.17:v.17:

The judgment is by God. The judgment is carried out by the 10 horns. The word clearly says so.

 

 

 

 

 

[DeighAnn]

On 3/2/2020 at 7:04 AM, The Light said:

 

Revelation 12:3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
DO we agree, that the red dragon, IN HEAVEN had a "governing body" of seven heads and ten horns, seven crowns upon his heads??



DO we agree that there is a " a beast- in the process of being set up now - governing body" HERE on earth, that will consist of seven heads and 10 horns ( NOT 7, like what was in heaven) but 10 crowns and made up of FLESH men?  
Revelation 13:1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.


Do we agree that when Satan and his angels are kicked out of heaven that the 10 horns or kings on earth will be REPLACED by 10 of those kicked out with Satan who WILL RECEIVE THEIR KINGDOM FOR ONE HOUR?
Revelation 17:12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.

Revelation 17:13 These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.



God created everyone and everything and all is under His control SO whatever they do it is ultimately under Gods control.  
Colossians 1:16 For by Him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by Him, and for Him: 17 And He is before all things, and by Him all things consist.
 

Ephesians 6:11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.  12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.  
 

Jesus tempted of the devil.  Flatteries and  false promises that he can't follow up on, when Jesus at his weakest.  An example for us to follow.  
Matthew 4:1 Then was Jesus led up of the spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.

2 And when he had fasted forty days and forty nights, he was afterward an hungred.

3 And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread.

4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

5 Then the devil taketh him up into the holy city, and setteth him on a pinnacle of the temple,

6 And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.

7 Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.

8 Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;

9 And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.

10 Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.

11 Then the devil leaveth him, and, behold, angels came and ministered unto him.

Do we agree (and I don't give the scripture for you, but for those who may be new to searching out the scriptures, so please do not take offense, it isn't about anything other than Gods Truth)

Daniel 11:21 And in his estate shall stand up a vile person, to whom they shall not give the honour of the kingdom but he shall come in peaceably, and obtain the kingdom by flatteries.22 And with the arms of a flood shall they be overflown from before him, and shall be broken; yea, also the prince of the covenant.23 And after the league made with him he shall work deceitfully for he shall come up, and shall become strong with a small people.24 He shall enter peaceably even upon the fattest places of the province; and he shall do that which his fathers have not done, nor his fathers' fathers; he shall scatter among them the prey, and spoil, and riches yea, and he shall forecast his devices against the strong holds, even for a time.25 And he shall stir up his power and his courage against the king of the south with a great army; and the king of the south shall be stirred up to battle with a very great and mighty army; but he shall not stand for they shall forecast devices against him.26 Yea, they that feed of the portion of his meat shall destroy him, and his army shall overflow and many shall fall down slain.16 And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.17 For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.

Daniel 11:28 Then shall he return into his land with great riches; and his heart shall be against the holy covenant; and he shall do exploits, and return to his own land.29 At the time appointed he shall return, and come toward the south; but it shall not be as the former, or as the latter.30 For the ships of Chittim shall come against him therefore he shall be grieved, and return, and have indignation against the holy covenant so shall he do; he shall even return, and have intelligence with them that forsake the holy covenant.31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.32 And such as do wickedly against the covenant shall he corrupt by flatteries but the people that do know their God shall be strong, and do exploits.33 And they that understand among the people shall instruct many yet they shall fall by the sword, and by flame, by captivity, and by spoil, many days.34 Now when they shall fall, they shall be holpen with a little help but many shall cleave to them with flatteries.35 And some of them of understanding shall fall, to try them, and to purge, and to make them white, even to the time of the end because it is yet for a time appointed.36 And the king shall do according to his will; and he shall exalt himself, and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak marvellous things against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the indignation be accomplished for that that is determined shall be done.37 Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god for he shall magnify himself above all.38 But in his estate shall he honour the God of forces and a god whom his fathers knew not shall he honour with gold, and silver, and with precious stones, and pleasant things.39 Thus shall he do in the most strong holds with a strange god, whom he shall acknowledge and increase with glory and he shall cause them to rule over many, and shall divide the land for gain.


 

Revelation 17:16 And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.

Revelation 17:17 For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.

Revelation 17:18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.

So the "hate of the whore, the tearing of flesh, the slain, the dying by the sword etc."  THESE ARE ALL NOT TO BE taken in the PHYSICAL flesh and blood on earth way, BUT AS SPIRITUAL DECEPTION, SOUL STEALING way.  She shall become EMPTY of GODS TRUTHS, naked as in once she would have had white linen to wear but she will end up with none, eat her flesh, I got nothing at the moment, burn with fire, everyone knows.  

The woman is hated but she does not know it, she does not feel it.  She is believing all the lies.  Smiling faces, lies, wonders, miracles, promises, twisted SCRIPTUREs ARE STEALING the very souls God has long suffered for to get help, who through the Word has tried to keep from this deception.  But she is waxing fat.  She is prospering and worshipping and believing THE LIAR and all his lies.  
SHE WON'T "SEE" ANYTHING WRONG until she "sees" the TRUE CHRIST RETURNING, and when she SEES that, AND REALIZES THE DECEPTION, the only thing she will feel is 

EMBARASSMENT so complete she will wish for mountains to fall UPON HER, to cover up her SHAME.  She has been in bed with Satan, becoming impregnated with his lies and deceptions,  promoting his works or as God puts it "with child giving suck", she has been the first one taken, she has not overcome, she has not endured until the end, she will be receiving NO REWARDS.  She will be spending the Lords Day BEING TAUGHT TRUTH and discipline and how to walk righteously before God so that upon the Great Throne Judgment she will not have followed Satans lies again when he was loosed a short season and then SHE WILL RECEIVE HER IMMORTALITY.  

And in the twinkling of an eye, ALL FLESH will be changed, though not all will receive immortality.   Satan will be bound.  The Lords Day will get under way.  


Are we someone who loves God and all his ways as if they are our own?  This physical life is ever so short but those who choose to discipline themselves to His righteous ways are those He can count on.  Just as He counted on Christ to do as he instructed, Christ did.  Just like that  parable of the man taking a long journey and leaving his possessions to someone to see how that man took care of his stuff, his other servants, how he handled the situation when evil was come upon the house.  Was the man fair?  Was the man kind?  Did the man not only do what was asked and expected or did the man go above and beyond the call of duty so that when the master returned all was not only well but better than when he left it.  So to is our journey in this flesh life.  Who are you when left to your own devices.  How well do you understand right from wrong.  How well do you follow instructions.  How much do you truly love the ONE who loves you.  Are you smart enough to "see" through the evil intentions of others.  Do you "see" evil when it is doing all it can to disguise itself as loving and good and helpful when in reality it is trying to take over and destroy all the Master of the House has set forth.  Do you put to full and good use the helpers he sent to help you.  Do you take good care of those around you.  Do you love them as their Master does?  

God is setting up an eternal kingdom too wonderful for us to even imagine.  But it is a Kingdom that has specific righteous ways and it is going to be for people whos SPIRIT is either naturally righteous or has through discipline become naturally righteous.  It is for those who are totally captive of the Lord or those who have seeked out to become captive of the Lord.  God knows how hard it is so He has sent us the Comforter to be with us and to lead us and help keep us on the path.  The Comforter doesn't do it for us.  The Comforter helps us do it ourselves.  I have heard some say that "He started and is the finisher of our faith and does it all through us".  If this were true then EVERYONE who accepted Christ would be the exact same, wouldn't they?  They might as well die right then and there and move on to heaven.  But it is a process.  We proceed towards perfection.  It is not Christ who will be judged in everyone of us but WE will be judged.  If you leaned on Him and followed His perfect example, and accepted and used His finish work to repent (change the inner man) and be forgiven your sins throughout your journey, that judgement day is going to be filled with nothing but rewards.  If not, well, you will be standing there naked and a whole lot embarassed.  

God is a consuming fire.  He consumes evil and none  will slip by Him and make it into the eternal kingdom.  Because we are in flesh bodies right now, evil is the hardest it will ever be to conquer.  If a soul while in the flesh can discipline itself to overcome evil and to live righteous and to love to live righteous in this world, just imagine how easy it is going to be for that soul when it has left the flesh behind and is in a spiritual body.  If a soul has spent his life disciplining himself, much of the work will be done upon arrival.  How happy that must make God to see someone arrive who has loved Him more than anything in this world and has followed the instruction manual given him.  


Don't know where this all came from but gotta go.  

[The_Truth_Seeker]

You know when I read in context Mark 13:24-25, and then look at Rev 6:12-14, it almost sounds like some kind of immensely powerful nuclear weapon of some type.

Question, when reading everything into context, can the Second Coming of The Messiah be connected to a event that results in the detonation of a Nuclear weapon of such power, capable of destroying all life on this planet, that without intervention from a higher power, all life itself would perish?

 

[WilliamL]

On 2/27/2020 at 4:58 PM, Revelation Man said:

Seems you conflated what I said ? I stated Jesus comes back with the Church in tow IMMEDIATELY AFTER the Tribulation to defeat the Beast on earth at Armageddon. This isn't a complicate puzzle brother, the 70th week is the tribulation period with the last 3.5 years being the greatest ever troubles seen. We probably agree on that.

No, we do not agree at all on this. The 70th week is history, and has nothing to do with the End Times. This is shown in the last three blogs I posted on Daniel 9:24-27, which include detailed interpretations of the Hebrew text. Starting here; https://www.worthychristianforums.com/blogs/entry/1598-daniel-924-27-examined-part-5-verse-27/

This topic is currently being discussed here, read the first two posts: https://www.worthychristianforums.com/topic/245796-does-daniel-926b-27-prophesy-about-end-time-events/

On 2/27/2020 at 4:58 PM, Revelation Man said:

Rev. 4 and 5 are the SAME PEOPLE as seen in Rev. 7 brother. We know this if we read the 5th Seal and take in what it actually says and follow that up with what Rev. 20:4 says. The 5th Seal Martyrs are CLEARLY TOLD that they must WAIT until all of their brothers have been killed in like manner as they have, so Jesus is clearly saying they will not be revenged until the Beasts 42 month reign of terror comes to an end.

You are adding your belief to the Word (note the part underlined above), not receiving the Word as written.

On 2/27/2020 at 4:58 PM, Revelation Man said:

So those in Rev. 7 can not be the Martyrs, thus they are indeed the Church that was Raptured pre trib, who came out of 2000 years of Church Age tribulation, where millions of our brothers died to build the Church, Amen. And knowing the 5th Seal Martyrs do not fit there, we now understand who they are, the same Church we saw in Rev. chapters 4 and 5. God thus shows the Church in heaven BEFORE the Seals are opened and again right AFTER the Seals are opened on purpose. He wants us to know the Church is in Heaven.  I can prove those seen in Rev. 4 and 5 are the Church. They have the very gifts that were promised o those that OVERCOME in chapters 2 and 3.

Those in Rev. 7  include all of the martyrs of the 5th Seal, although these will constitute only a small fraction of them. The Saints of Rev. 4-5 are the OT saints who rose from the dead shortly after Jesus did; they are not End Times saints at all. They were redeemed from the grave as Jesus prophesied:

John 5:25 “Most assuredly, I say to you, the hour is coming, and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God; and those who hear will live. 26“For as the Father has life in Himself, so He has granted the Son to have life in Himself, 27 “and has given Him authority to execute judgment also, because He is the Son of Man.

When Jesus comes before God in heaven as the slain Lamb in Rev. 5:6, this is the "second time" (Heb. 9:28) He has to appear for Atonement, per the requirements of the the Law for the Day of Atonement found in Leviticus 16. Only after this second blood atonement is made "for the people" (Lev. 16:15) will the Rapture be able to take place. So the Rapture CANNOT precede the events of Rev. 4:1 - Rev. 6's 6th Seal. This is from the first section of my blog post found here: https://www.worthychristianforums.com/blogs/entry/1505-the-tabernacle-and-court-part-4-the-most-holy-place/

Under the Mosaic Law of the Israelite Covenant, only the High Priest was allowed to enter into the Most Holy Place of the Tabernacle, and only on one day each year. Lev. 16:2, 34; Heb. 9:7 On that day, the Day of Atonement, he was required to enter the Most Holy Place twice:

 

Leviticus 16:17 …that he may make atonement [1] for himself, and for his household, and [2] for all the assembly of Israel.

Under Christʼs Law of the Church Covenant,

Hebrews 8:1 We have such a High Priest… 2 a Minister of the Holy Places and of the true [i.e., Heavenly] Tabernacle which the Lord erected, and not man. … 9:12 …[who] entered [1] once into the Holy Places, having obtained (for) Himself* eternal redemption. … 24 For Christ has not entered into holy places made with hands, [which are] antitupa/antitypes/representations of the true, but into heaven itself, [2] now to appear in the Presence of God for us. … 28 To those who eagerly wait for Him, He will appear out [of heavenʼs Sanctuary] a second time without sin to [the purpose of] salvation. *Greek middle/reflexive voice.

The true meaning of this passage out of Hebrews is generally missed. The two-fold atonement required of Aaronic High Priests in the earthly Tabernacle was meant to be an accurate representation of the two-fold atonement ultimately required of the heavenly High Priest, Jesus Christ.

Although Jesus lived a sinless life, God “made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.” 2 Cor. 5:21; Is. 53:4-6 Therefore, He was unclean upon His Resurrection from the dead, and needed to immediately ascend to the Most Holy Place in heaven to become purified. This is why He said to Mary Magdalene,

John 20:17 “Touch me not, for I have not yet ascended to my Father…”

In contrast, the same day in the evening, after His return from “having obtained (for) Himself eternal redemption” (Heb. 9:12, above), he told His disciples, “Handle Me and see…” Luke 24:39 By that time, atonement had been made “for Himself and for His household.” Lev. 16:17, above.

Aaronʼs household consisted of all Aaronic priests and their families. Christʼs household consists of all Melchizedek/Apostolic priests and their families, because He was

Hebrews 5:10 called by God as High Priest “according to the Order of Melchizedek…” 3:6 [and] Christ [was faithful] as Son [of God] over his own house, whose house we are if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm to the end.

 

[The Light]

11 hours ago, The_Truth_Seeker said:

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You know when I read in context Mark 13:24-25, and then look at Rev 6:12-14, it almost sounds like some kind of immensely powerful nuclear weapon of some type.

First I congratulate you for understanding that Mark 13:24-25 is the same time period as Rev 6:12-14. Truly, most people do not get that. The reason they don't understand what God clearly tells us is because they can't get things in their timeline to work. Instead of starting with the obvious truth that Mark 13:24-25, Matthew 24:29 and Rev 6:12-14 are the same event, they cast it aside. Then they pound together a bunch of things that occur in the 70th week of Daniel and think they have the right answer.

It is not a nuclear weapon. Look at the verses.

Rev 6

¹² And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

¹³ And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

Mark 13

²⁴ But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,

²⁵ And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.

The stars of heaven falling are the fallen angels being cast out of the heavens. They are about to experience the wrath of God along with the non believers.

 

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Question, when reading everything into context, can the Second Coming of The Messiah be connected to a event that results in the detonation of a Nuclear weapon of such power, capable of destroying all life on this planet, that without intervention from a higher power, all life itself would perish?

I think you are confusing things with this verse.

Mark 13

20 And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect's sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days.

This verse is not saying "if the Lord had not shortened those days all flesh would perish." The verse is saying that if the days of the tribulation were not shortened, there would be no believers alive to be caught up in the flesh to receive salvation. All that received salvation would come from graves, and not any in the flesh.

Additionally, since you understand that Mark 13:24-25 is talking about the same thing as Rev 6: 12-13 you need to be aware that this is NOT the second coming when Jesus sets up His kingdom on earth (which is commonly taught), it is the gathering that Paul talks of.

2 Thes 2

1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

² That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

Paul says don't be shaken or troubled that the day of the Lord is at hand. The people were afraid that they were in the day of Gods wrath and had missed the gathering. So here we see the gathering.

Matt 24

³¹ And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

So this coming of the Lord is for the gathering prior to the wrath of God.

Rev 6

¹⁶ And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

¹⁷ For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

 

Edited March 4, 2020 by The Light

[The_Truth_Seeker]

Have a look at Rev 6:12-14, and in verse Rev 6.12, the word  "earthquake" is G4578 seismos, which is interesting because because going by strongs concordance, it can mean a commotion, gale, or earthquake.

For those who have not seen it, go on you tube have a look at the Tsar Bomb.

Secondly, look at the description in Mark 13:24-27, now look in Mark 13:24, notice the reference to the days concerned "after that tribulation" and by reading the verse, an event has happened. Now looking in verse Mark 13:27, there is still mention of the elect (and I get the impression that whatever event happens, the elect in one way or another are protected, but that is my opinion on what I understand).

 

 

 

 

 

[Revelation Man]

3 hours ago, WilliamL said:

No, we do not agree at all on this. The 70th week is history, and has nothing to do with the End Times. This is shown in the last three blogs I posted on Daniel 9:24-27, which include detailed interpretations of the Hebrew text. Starting here; https://www.worthychristianforums.com/blogs/entry/1598-daniel-924-27-examined-part-5-verse-27/

This topic is currently being discussed here, read the first two posts: https://www.worthychristianforums.com/topic/245796-does-daniel-926b-27-prophesy-about-end-time-events/

Well you are wrong on this my brother, the 70th week can not come to pass until Israel has ATONED for her sins by turning back unto God. It surprises me that people still go down this road. I have blogs on Dan. 9:24-27 also, that explains it to a all. 

3 hours ago, WilliamL said:

You are adding your belief to the Word (note the part underlined above), not receiving the Word as written.

 

I am not adding anything, you are just denying CLEAR SCRIPTURE because it goes against what you believe.  All the Seals are opened and then cover 42 Months, nothing is linear via the Seals, the Trumps and Vials are Linear via their order. The Four Seals all cover a 42 month time frame, as does the 5th Seal Martyrs being killed. Jesus CLEARLY SAYS that they will not get revenge on those people who killed them {who are STILL ON EARTH} until their fellow brothers have been killed in like manner as they have. ITS CLEAR AS DAY !! Must I post it to prove my point ? It's clearly there brother. 

 Rev. 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: 10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? 11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

So the people that killed the Martyrs under the Altar are all STILL ALIVE and on earth, so these Martyrs can't be the 2000 years of Church Age Martyrs !! These can only be the 70th week tribulation Martyrs. Jesus tells them they MUST WAIT until their brothers have all been killed/MARTYRED in like manner as they have..........comes to pass or is FULFILLED. So where did I put in my own words ? It takes people a long time to think how they can overcome my  answers brother because the truth is the truth. Rev. 20:4 also states that these Martyrs who lay down their lives to the Beast are then JUDGED and rule with Jesus for 1000 years, so these are 70th Week Tribulation Saints, not Church Age Saints. 

3 hours ago, WilliamL said:

Those in Rev. 7  include all of the martyrs of the 5th Seal, although these will constitute only a small fraction of them. The Saints of Rev. 4-5 are the OT saints who rose from the dead shortly after Jesus did; they are not End Times saints at all. They were redeemed from the grave as Jesus prophesied:

John 5:25 “Most assuredly, I say to you, the hour is coming, and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God; and those who hear will live. 26“For as the Father has life in Himself, so He has granted the Son to have life in Himself, 27 “and has given Him authority to execute judgment also, because He is the Son of Man.

When Jesus comes before God in heaven as the slain Lamb in Rev. 5:6, this is the "second time" (Heb. 9:28) He has to appear for Atonement, per the requirements of the the Law for the Day of Atonement found in Leviticus 16. Only after this second blood atonement is made "for the people" (Lev. 16:15) will the Rapture be able to take place. So the Rapture CANNOT precede the events of Rev. 4:1 - Rev. 6's 6th Seal. This is from the first section of my blog post found here: https://www.worthychristianforums.com/blogs/entry/1505-the-tabernacle-and-court-part-4-the-most-holy-place/

Its CLEARLY the Church, as I showed, they are given the Gifts Promised to the Church, not to Israel. Besides Israel has just repented and are still in the 70th week, they can't be in Heaven. As I showed, these are not and CAN NOT BE the tribulation Martyrs of the 5th Seal. I know it stumps you, but you can't just pretend what I showed you are not facts brother. Rev. 20:4 CLEARLY SHOWS that they are not Judged until Rev. 20:4, AFTER Jesus returns with the Church in tow. Those in Rev 7 are the Church Age Saints, INDEED. But not the 70th week Martyrs. 

John is just seeing a vision, Jesus offered the Atonement a long time ago.

[The Light]

4 hours ago, The_Truth_Seeker said:

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Have a look at Rev 6:12-14, and in verse Rev 6.12, the word  "earthquake" is G4578 seismos, which is interesting because because going by strongs concordance, it can mean a commotion, gale, or earthquake.

For those who have not seen it, go on you tube have a look at the Tsar Bomb.

Secondly, look at the description in Mark 13:24-27, now look in Mark 13:24, notice the reference to the days concerned "after that tribulation" and by reading the verse, an event has happened. Now looking in verse Mark 13:27, there is still mention of the elect (and I get the impression that whatever event happens, the elect in one way or another are protected, but that is my opinion on what I understand).

 

The event is the prewrath rapture of the 12 tribes that are scattered across the earth. God keeps his promise to His elect.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 5, 2020 by The Light

[The Light]

22 hours ago, Oseas Ramos de Siqueira said:

What are these stars and how were they launched unto earth?

The stars are angels. There was war in heaven and they were cast out.