Rapture before the antichrist in Matthew 24

[iamlamad]

8 minutes ago, Justin Adams said:

You can make just about any verse say what u want...

I can also, with the help of the Holy Spirit, determine what the Author's intent was when He had someone write it down. But it takes meditation on a verse, and praying in the Spirit. Many people are not willing to wait on God to hear from Him. So they just use human reasoning.

[Last Daze]

10 hours ago, iamlamad said:

The Two witnesses are two JEWS.  

No they aren't.

• These are the two olive trees and the two lampstands that stand before the Lord of the earth.  Revelation 11:4

They existed before Judah.  Read Genesis 18.  The two witnesses were with the Lord of the earth when He met Abraham, and they went on to Sodom to rescue the righteous and punish the wicked.

 

 

[DeighAnn]

1 hour ago, iamlamad said:

Do you see it now? The church age will end with the pretrib rapture; then God will turn His full attention to the Jews. Have you not read His purpose in the 70th week? 

 
 I see you reject all I believe, so I will try to make this my last reply.

Luke 21:7 And they asked him, saying, Master, but when shall these things be? and what sign will there be when these things shall come to pass?

Luke 21:8 And he said, Take heed that ye be not deceived: for many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and the time draweth near: go ye not therefore after them.
 Don't be deceived -  who comes on the first white horse with the cheap fabric bow to convince/deceive the world?
 

Luke 21:9 But when ye shall hear of wars and commotions, be not terrified: for these things must first come to pass; but the end is not by and by.

 

Luke 21:10 Then said he unto them, Nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom:

Luke 21:11 And great earthquakes shall be in divers places, and famines, and pestilences; and fearful sights and great signs shall there be from heaven.

Luke 21:12 But before all these, they shall lay their hands on you, and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues, and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for my name's sake.

Luke 21:13 And it shall turn to you for a testimony.

Luke 21:14 Settle it therefore in your hearts, not to meditate before what ye shall answer:

Luke 21:15 For I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist.

Luke 21:16 And ye shall be betrayed both by parents, and brethren, and kinsfolks, and friends; and some of you shall they cause to be put to death.

Luke 21:17 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake.

Luke 21:18 But there shall not an hair of your head perish.

Luke 21:19 In your patience possess ye your souls.

Luke 21:20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.

Luke 21:21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.

Luke 21:22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.

 

Luke 21:23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.

 

Luke 21:24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled. 

THE TIMES OF THE GENTILES FULFILLED.  

NOTICE IT IS AFTER 

THE UNFAITHFUL, NO LONGER VIRGINS, YET STILL FOOLISH
(THEY BEING WITH CHILD/HAVING WORSHIPPED SATAN/RECEIVED MARK IN THE FORHEAD) AND

GAVE SUCK
(TOOK OF HIS SYSTEM, RECEIVED MARK IN HIS HAND)  

AND RIGHT BEFORE 
 

Luke 21:25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;

Luke 21:26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.

Luke 21:27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.

 

 

WHAT DOES THE LORD SAY 
 

Luke 10:17 And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through thy name.

Luke 10:18 And He said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.
CHRIST BEHELD SATAN FALL FROM HEAVEN AND WHAT DOES HE SAY AND/OR DO ABOUT THAT? 

DOES HE MAKE A SINGLE MENTION OF "THE GREATEST EVENT THE BELIEVING AND NONBELIEVING WORLD WILL EVER SEE OR EXPERIENCE"?  NO, NOT EVEN A HINT OF THAT BUT INSTEAD WHAT DOES HE SAY AND GIVE?
 

Luke 10:19 Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you.


 

Luke 10:20 Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven.


 Gods Word tells us to walk away, dust off our feet at this point.  So keep studying and praying,  as it is what I shall do.   

 

 

 

 

 

[DeighAnn]

Romans 11:13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:

Romans 11:14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them.

Romans 11:15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?

Romans 11:16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.

Romans 11:17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert GRAFTED IN AMONG THEM, AND WITH THEM PARTAKEST of the root and fatness of the olive tree;

Romans 11:18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.

What does this so called "gentile??? church" of today say?  ALL but a VERY few of the natural branches are broken off and the ROOT NOW BEARS ONLY THE WILD OLIVE BRANCHES.  

Romans 11:19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.

Romans 11:20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:

Romans 11:21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.

Romans 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

Romans 11:23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.

Romans 11:24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?

Romans 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

Romans 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob


 

Isaiah 59:13 In transgressing and lying against the LORD, and departing away from our God, speaking oppression and revolt, conceiving and uttering from the heart words of falsehood.

Isaiah 59:14 And judgment is turned away backward, and justice standeth afar off: for truth is fallen in the street, and equity cannot enter.

Isaiah 59:15 Yea, truth faileth; and he that departeth from evil maketh himself a prey: and the LORD saw it, and it displeased him that there was no judgment.

Isaiah 59:16 And he saw that there was no man, and wondered that there was no intercessor: therefore his arm brought salvation unto him; and his righteousness, it sustained him.

Isaiah 59:17 For he put on righteousness as a breastplate, and an helmet of salvation upon his head; and he put on the garments of vengeance for clothing, and was clad with zeal as a cloak.

Isaiah 59:18 According to their deeds, accordingly he will repay, fury to his adversaries, recompence to his enemies; to the islands he will repay recompence.

Isaiah 59:19 So shall they fear the name of the LORD from the west, and his glory from the rising of the sun. When the enemy shall come in like a flood, the Spirit of the LORD shall lift up a standard against him.

Isaiah 59:20 And the Redeemer shall come to Zion, and unto them that turn from transgression in Jacob, saith the LORD.

Isaiah 59:21 AS FOR ME, THIS IS MY COVENANT WITH THEM SAITH THE LORD:  MY SPIRIT THAT IS UPON THEE AND MY WORDS WHICH I HAVE PUT IN THY MOUTH SHALL NOT DEPART OUT OF THY MOUTH NOR OUT OF THE MOUTH OF THY SEED NOR OUT OF THE MOUTH OF THY SEED'S SEED SAITH THE LORD FROM HENCEFORTH AND FOREVER.  

[iamlamad]

2 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

 
 I see you reject all I believe, so I will try to make this my last reply.

Luke 21:7 And they asked him, saying, Master, but when shall these things be? and what sign will there be when these things shall come to pass?

Luke 21:8 And he said, Take heed that ye be not deceived: for many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and the time draweth near: go ye not therefore after them.
 Don't be deceived -  who comes on the first white horse with the cheap fabric bow to convince/deceive the world?
 

Luke 21:9 But when ye shall hear of wars and commotions, be not terrified: for these things must first come to pass; but the end is not by and by.

 

Luke 21:10 Then said he unto them, Nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom:

Luke 21:11 And great earthquakes shall be in divers places, and famines, and pestilences; and fearful sights and great signs shall there be from heaven.

Luke 21:12 But before all these, they shall lay their hands on you, and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues, and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for my name's sake.

Luke 21:13 And it shall turn to you for a testimony.

Luke 21:14 Settle it therefore in your hearts, not to meditate before what ye shall answer:

Luke 21:15 For I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist.

Luke 21:16 And ye shall be betrayed both by parents, and brethren, and kinsfolks, and friends; and some of you shall they cause to be put to death.

Luke 21:17 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake.

Luke 21:18 But there shall not an hair of your head perish.

Luke 21:19 In your patience possess ye your souls.

Luke 21:20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.

Luke 21:21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.

Luke 21:22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.

 

Luke 21:23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.

 

Luke 21:24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled. 

THE TIMES OF THE GENTILES FULFILLED.  

NOTICE IT IS AFTER 

THE UNFAITHFUL, NO LONGER VIRGINS, YET STILL FOOLISH
(THEY BEING WITH CHILD/HAVING WORSHIPPED SATAN/RECEIVED MARK IN THE FORHEAD) AND

GAVE SUCK
(TOOK OF HIS SYSTEM, RECEIVED MARK IN HIS HAND)  

AND RIGHT BEFORE 
 

Luke 21:25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;

Luke 21:26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.

Luke 21:27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.

 

 

WHAT DOES THE LORD SAY 
 

Luke 10:17 And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through thy name.

Luke 10:18 And He said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.
CHRIST BEHELD SATAN FALL FROM HEAVEN AND WHAT DOES HE SAY AND/OR DO ABOUT THAT? 

DOES HE MAKE A SINGLE MENTION OF "THE GREATEST EVENT THE BELIEVING AND NONBELIEVING WORLD WILL EVER SEE OR EXPERIENCE"?  NO, NOT EVEN A HINT OF THAT BUT INSTEAD WHAT DOES HE SAY AND GIVE?
 

Luke 10:19 Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you.


 

Luke 10:20 Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven.


 Gods Word tells us to walk away, dust off our feet at this point.  So keep studying and praying,  as it is what I shall do.   

 

I see you reject all I believe   It is true. I have used scriptures over and over and over showing your beliefs to be in error. But you can certainly keep them of you choose.

Don't be deceived -  who comes on the first white horse with the cheap fabric bow to convince/deceive the world? Now, please let me show you why I don't believe this theory.

Revelation 1:14  His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire;

Revelation 2:17  He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.

Revelation 3:4  Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy.

Revelation 3:5  He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

Revelation 3:18  I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.

Revelation 4:4  And round about the throne were four and twenty seats: and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold.

Revelation 6:2  And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.

Revelation 6:11  And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

Revelation 7:9  After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

Revelation 7:13  And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?

Revelation 7:14  And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

Revelation 14:14  And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

Revelation 15:6  And the seven angels came out of the temple, having the seven plagues, clothed in pure and white linen, and having their breasts girded with golden girdles.

Revelation 19:8  And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.

Revelation 19:11  And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

Revelation 19:14  And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

Revelation 20:11  And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them

John used white 17 times in his book. Sixteen times, it was to represent something righteous or good. You believe God is INCONSISTENT and He would use white for righteousness 16 times and then once for something evil. Sorry, but I don't buy it. Our God is not like that.

Next is the matter of timing. You imagine that this first seal is future to represent the coming Antichrist. Well, you are pulling that first seal out of context. You should know better, but it seems you don't.

WHEN did John see this vision? Most agree around 95 AD. Jesus went to heaven around 32 AD.  So this vision came around  63 years after Jesus ascended. Agree so far? Now follow me: Jesus ascended back into the throne room. To be WHERE? At the right hand of the Father.

Matthew 26:64  Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven..  WHERE does this place Jesus after He ascended? At the right hand of the FAther.

Acts 7:55  But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God,  Do you see this? Stephen SAW Him standing at the Father's right hand.

Romans 8:34  Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.  There are more such verses I could post, but do you believe these words of God: that Jesus went to sit and the right hand of the Father?

Ephesians 1:20  Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,  You needed to see one more. Make no mistake: when Jesus ascended, He went to sit at the right hand of the Father on the throne.

Rev. 4:

² And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne.

³ And he that sat was to look upon like a jasper and a sardine stone: and there was a rainbow round about the throne, in sight like unto an emerald.

⁴ And round about the throne were four and twenty seats: and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold.

⁵ And out of the throne proceeded lightnings and thunderings and voices: and there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God.

Now, what did John see in this vision seen around 95 AD? A throne and the Father seated on the throne. Then he saw the 24 elders.  Then He saw the Holy Spirit as the seven spirits of God. 

Question: WHERE IS JESUS? John was seeing a vision. It was a vision of the throne room.  Why would God show John a vision of the throne room with Jesus MISSING? This is HIS BOOK! It is a book about Jesus!

Please allow me: These are the words Jesus spoke to me: I heard His voice and I heard His words:

"I will ask you three questions. Until you can answer them correctly you will never understand this part of John’s vision.”

1.  “Why did John not immediately see Me at the right hand of the Father in chapter four? I ascended back into heaven years before John saw this vision. There are over a dozen verses showing that I went to be at the right hand of the Father. Why then did John not immediately see Me at the right hand of the Father?

He had previously spoken to me twice about this vision of the throne room. I had asked Him about why we needed to know that john wept, and why he wept much. He said, "It shows timing." Then, after much more study and I being unable to see timing anywhere, He said, "It also shows the movement of time." I could not find timing anywhere or see any movement of time! I was SLOW!

Remember, this is Jesus Christ, the head of the church, asking me why John did not immediately see Jesus at the right hand of the Father. I was "in the spirit" so only my spirit man could answer. I said that I could not answer that question.

2.  “If you notice in chapter 4, the Holy Spirit was still in the throne room. I told the disciples that as soon as I ascended, I would send Him down. Why was the Holy Spirit still in the throne room in chapter 4?”

I did not have a clue! I said again, "I cannot answer that question."

3. “John watched a search to find one worthy to break the seals—a search that ended in failure—and that is the very reason John wept much: no man was found worthy. However, if you read ahead, you find that I was found worthy to break the seals. Why then was I not found in that first search?”

I said again, "I cannot answer that question." I puzzled over these questions for hours each day for weeks - perhaps two months. I could not see timing, I could not see any movement of time, nor could I find the answer to any of His questions. DeighAnn, perhaps you would like to answer them? Feel free! Give it your best shot. You are probably must quicker of mind than I am.

I bugged God a lot over the next two months or so, trying to find the answers. Finally He spoke again and told me to go study chapter 12. He gave me a synopsis of that chapter and then said that the first 5 verses were a "history lesson" for John - for they were about how Satan the Dragon tried to use King Herod to murder Jesus as a young boy. His purpose was for me to get "History lesson" in my mind. Then He said I could go back to chapters 4 & 5.

I did, and within a few minutes had the answer to all three questions. I saw timing and I saw the movement of time.

 

I suddenly realized that John was looking into the throne room of the past, at a time just before Jesus rose from the dead.

Most people never notice that Jesus Christ, the Son of God, was not seen at the right hand of the Father, where many verses say that is where He went to be, and should have been when John was called up to heaven. In fact, Stephen saw Him there. We must remember, John was seeing a vision of the throne room, not the actual throne room of that time. Jesus was not seen at the right hand of the father, for at that time in the vision, He was still on the earth or under the earth. From eternities past to eternities future, there has only been one small period of time where Jesus was not at the right hand of the Father, and that was during the 32 years or so that He was on earth.

“No man was found worthy” to take the book and open the seals, tells us that Jesus had not yet risen from the dead to be found worthy. He was not worthy to take the book until after He had risen from the dead. Finally, the Holy Spirit was still in the throne room because Jesus had not yet ascended to send Him down.

Then, as we read further into chapter 5, we see that another search was begun as soon as the first search John watched had ended in failure. Some people argue that John did not call it a “search.” In my mind, if someone is “found,” then someone was looking or searching.

This angel was sent on a mission; to find someone worthy to open the book. Since John mentioned that this took place in heaven, on earth, and then under the earth, I think the term "search” fits what John wrote.

John wept much because no man was found in this first search he had watched. Make no mistake here: a search was made for one worthy to open the seals so the book could be opened—and John watched that first search, first in heaven, then on earth and then under the earth. That first search ended in failure, and John wrote, “no man was found.” Take note that if no one was “found” then someone was trying to “find” one worthy to loose the seals and open the book—so we know a search was made.

We don’t know how long John wept, but it could have been hours or days. Reading on, we see that finally someone came up to John and told him he could stop weeping, for someone had been found worthy: “the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.”

Here we see the passing of time. The first search ended in failure, and John wept much, but it seems another search was started as soon as the first search ended. This hints that perhaps this search for one worthy to take this book and loose the seals had been ongoing for some time, another search starting the moment the previous one ended in failure.

What did Jesus “prevail” over, to become worthy? He prevailed over death. He conquered death by rising from the dead. When He rose, He became the redeemer of mankind.  If He had failed to conquer death, according to Paul, and rise from the dead, we would still be in our sins.  Before Christ rose from the dead, “no man was found worthy,” including Jesus. But after He rose from the dead, He was immediately found worthy. It seems then that only someone who conquered death could be worthy to open the seals.

Someone came up to John and told him to stop weeping, for someone had prevailed to take the book and open the seals. Then John turned and saw a Lamb, “having been slain.” That Lamb was simply not there the moment before! John got to see in vision form, the moment Jesus ascended, after telling Mary not to hold onto Him for He had not yet ascended. Once Mary left Him, He ascended and entered the throne room, and John got to see this very moment in time, in the vision. We read that He came with the Holy Spirit, who was then immediately sent down to the earth.

6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth. 7 And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne.

Some people want to argue that Jesus was there all the time, but just not seen. Sorry, but this was a vision given by God to make a point: to set the timing of the first seal. God allowed John to see exactly what John wrote: a throne room where Jesus was not seen at the right hand of the Father, and a search for one worthy that ended up failing to find someone worthy. Both these things point to a time before Jesus rose from the dead. This is a very weak argument: the main them of the entire bible is the Son come to redeem mankind. To imagine He was there but just not seen does not fit with the rest of scripture.

So what was God's purpose in these two chapters? They are the CONTEXT of the first seal. They set the TIMING of the first seal. Notice verse 6 above: WHEN did Jesus ascend back into the throne room? It was around 32 AD. WHEN was the Holy Spirit sent down? It was around 32 AD. WHEN did Jesus get the book into His own hands? It was around 32 AD. WHEN then did Jesus open the first seal? It was around 32 AD.

And you expect me to believe that this first seal is to represent the antichrist of our future?????? Sister, there is not a chance I would fall for that. I know the first seal is to represent the CHURCH sent out with the GOSPEL around 32 AD. 

I really hope you read this.

[iamlamad]

4 hours ago, Last Daze said:

No they aren't.

• These are the two olive trees and the two lampstands that stand before the Lord of the earth.  Revelation 11:4

They existed before Judah.  Read Genesis 18.  The two witnesses were with the Lord of the earth when He met Abraham, and they went on to Sodom to rescue the righteous and punish the wicked.

How amazing! Olive trees that TALK! They can witness! I am convinced they are the two men that never died: Enoch and Elijah. God said that Elijah would come.

[Last Daze]

53 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

How amazing! Olive trees that TALK! They can witness! I am convinced they are the two men that never died: Enoch and Elijah. God said that Elijah would come.

I expected that the folly of your preconceived glasses would keep you from seeing what I was saying.  I was right.

[Revelation Man]

23 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

I don't understand why you believe His wrath is to be feared by those who love Him.   Remember Shadrach, Meshack and Abednego in the fiery furnace?  Daniel in the Lions Den?  HOW about the plagues and PASSOVER IN EGYPT?  No rapture HAPPENED THEN because IT ISN'T NECESSARY FOR GOD TO PROTECT HIS OWN BY taking them from the earth.   FAITH, the  Gospel Armor, belief in the promises of God is all you need.  And don't forget,  

 

I don't agree with him on much but even a broken clock is right twice a day. God doesn't "NEED" to protect us when our job on earth is done. You do realize the difference in your demonstration right? The difference is Daniel, these three men, Noah via the flood, Lot, etc. etc. had not yet birthed the Messiah to Save the world. The Christians had not yet preached the Gospel (which would save the world) to the ends of the world like Matt. 24:14 says we must do, so in both cases, OUR JOBS were not yet completed ON EARTH, thus we needed to remain on earth. After Matt. 24:14, our mission on earth is COMPLETE, thus we are not needed thus we are TAKEN to Marry the Lamb just like Rev. 19 says WHILST the Beast and his minions are still on earth.

So you don't understand the whys of the situation. The book of Revelation also tells us there will be Martyrs, that means the Christians who come to Jesus AFTER the Rapture will be killed, so is that PROTECTION Dee ? Its just the opposite, those 5 Virgins who tarried WILL NOT be protected. We, the Church are indeed protected, in Heaven. 

23 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

PRE TRIB RAP is all about SAVING YOUR LIFE and ESCAPING any testing, trouble or tribulation.  But what are GODS THOUGHTS ON testing, trouble or tribulation?  

 It is much like those who tried building a tower to save themselves from another flood or  like those who try to take JUDGEMENT from out of Gods hands and put in in their own.  

This is nonsensical thinking sister, we are saved by the blood of Jesus, NOTHING we can do earns that Salvation. Pre trib is about following the facts, anything else is about trying to EARN YOUR WAY to Heaven....see how I reversed that to be just as nonsensical as your theory?  Again, it is in no way like ANYTHING BEFORE because the Gospel was NEVER PREACHED unto the ends of the world until NOW !!

23 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

This becomes IMPOSSIBLE with a pre trib ANYTHING

 

This comes from people like you not understanding the difference between what is meant here, its Jesus' two ADVENTS that are being spoken of, his Dearth as a Suffering Servant and his 1000 year reign as a Conquering King. John 20 proves Jesus has come back tom earth after he was raised. Jesus calling us to meet him in the air is not a "COMING ANYWAY". You not understanding what Paul is speaking of is on you and your ilk, its about his two Advents on earth. 

In John 20 Jesus tells Mary TOUCH ME NOT for I have not yet ascended to the Father. Then a few verses later he visits them in the upper room, but its 8 days later, and he tells John to TOUCH HIS WOUNDS !! Meaning that Jesus had went to the Father, offered the Sacrifice and RETURNED with the Holy Spirit as a gift. Mary was a sinner, her touching the Master would have DEFILED the offering before God. {No sin flesh can enter Heaven}.

 

23 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

Revelation 16:2 And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; and there fell a noisome and grievous sore UPON THE MEN WHICH HAD THE MARK OF THE BEAST, , and upon them.... 

 

By this time, AT THE END, the Beast has KILLED/Martyred the Christians and the Jews are hiding in Petra. So THEM is those who are left........

[The Light]

9 hours ago, Traveler said:

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42 pages wow. Not going to read them all so if I repeat what another has said then please accept my apology. There are two everlasting covenants in play here. Now please consider this

The church is found in heaven here, After the seals and apocalypse but before the Trumpets are blown.

The Church is found in heaven here.

Rev 5

⁸ And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.

⁹ And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

¹⁰ And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

The Church is in heaven before the seals are opened. The 1st 6 seals are the tribulation period.

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Now obviously the age of grace is over and the time of the gentiles has ended so things have to return back to the earlier covenant under the law, with the result that now the events that happen no longer come from the earth but the throne room of God in the form of the warning trumpets. The gentiles in the form of Christs bride are gone from this earth but the Israelites still remain.

Only the nation of Israel goes through the wrath of God, and they do so in a place of protection. The rest of the 12 tribes that are across the earth are raptured prior to the wrath in the fall fruit harvest. The 144,000 first fruits are proof of this harvest.

 

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Now the Jews or Israelite's are only found in heaven before the throne of God here. The saints are before the throne of Christ.

The great multitude in Rev 7 contains the church raptured pretrib and the twelve tribes that are across the earth earth, raptured prewrath. But not the nation of Israel. They remain on the earth through the wrath of God, in a place of protection. None of Gods people are appointed to wrath.

 

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This second group is found in heaven after the Trumpets but before the bowls of wrath.

The bowls of wrath are just another view of the trumpets.

Here we see that the wrath of God is over in Rev 11. Rev 10 tells us that the mystery of God will be finished when the 7th angel sounds. Rev 11 shows the sounding and that the kingdom of this word are become the kingdoms of our God.

Rev 10

⁷ But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

Rev 11

¹⁵ And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

Rev 14 shows another view of the wrath of God beginning.

Rev 14

¹⁹ And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.

 

 

 

 

Edited March 20, 2020 by The Light

[iamlamad]

19 hours ago, Last Daze said:

I expected that the folly of your preconceived glasses would keep you from seeing what I was saying.  I was right.

In fact, I agreed that the Preincarnate Jesus had two witnesses when Abraham saw them. Is God not allowed to have to DIFFERENT witnesses at the end of this age? What proof do you have that they will be the very same two?