1 Corinthians 11 1-16 What is a Head Covering Is it a Woman's Long Hair or a Veil

[Justin Adams]

48 minutes ago, Heleadethme said:

"Because of the angels"...is simply because angels can fall

He was directly referring to Gen 6 which was well known in his day and talked about a great deal. Peter and Jude also mention it.

Most Rabbis of the time and in second temple literature ascribed the proliferation of evil to the fallen holy ones on Mt Hermon.

Not Adam. Adam just lost our immortality and while he did sin, it was nothing compared to the Watchers and their teaching of the forbidden arts and their offsprings, the Nephilim. The dead Nephilim are the cause of the disembodied spirits we call demons. These are NOT fallen angels and the other bunch of wayward heavenly ones are indicted in Psalm 82 at their failure to lead the nations as God intended, Deut 32. So, we have territorial spirits over the nations leading them en masse the wrong ways. Thus the world is in very poor shape. However, Yeshua put this all to rights and took their authority away at His Death and Resurrection. Although their time is short, these 'princes' or principalities and powers still make life very hard for humans especially Christians. We must understand well the supernatural worldview.

Edited March 15, 2020 by Justin Adams

[other one]

44 minutes ago, Heleadethme said:

Agree in principle but this just isn't one of those occasions...Paul gave completely other reasons for the propriety of headcovering, and he simply wouldn't have lied.

that is assuming that you really understand what he was saying....

[Heleadethme]

59 minutes ago, other one said:

that is assuming that you really understand what he was saying....

If you think what he was saying was related to Gen. 6, please feel free to expound.....the only thing I can see that was alluding to to that in what he said, was where he said "because of the angels".  But if you or Justin have more understanding of how the rest of what Paul said alludes to Gen. 6, then please go ahead and explain, and let's look at it.

[other one]

1 hour ago, Heleadethme said:

If you think what he was saying was related to Gen. 6, please feel free to expound.....the only thing I can see that was alluding to to that in what he said, was where he said "because of the angels".  But if you or Justin have more understanding of how the rest of what Paul said alludes to Gen. 6, then please go ahead and explain, and let's look at it.

I have an easier idea...    read or watch Dr. Heiser's work for I don't have the time nor the inclination to cover an entire book on this thread.  I just ask people to look for themselves within Dr. Heiser's work if they are interested...   If not     Oh well...

[Heleadethme]

33 minutes ago, other one said:

I have an easier idea...    read or watch Dr. Heiser's work for I don't have the time nor the inclination to cover an entire book on this thread.  I just ask people to look for themselves within Dr. Heiser's work if they are interested...   If not     Oh well...

I understand what he says about the culture of the day thinking that a woman's hair is involved in reproduction....but I don't understand how that relates to what Paul was saying about headship and honouring/dishonouring one's head and that woman was created for the man,not man for the woman, etc...those things have nothing to do with reproduction....those are issues having to do with the pecking order of creation. 

[missmuffet]

On 3/5/2020 at 6:15 AM, Servant of the Lord said:

What is a Head Covering Is it a Woman's Long Hair or a Veil

It is not her hair. It is a scarve, hat or a veil. The Amish wear a starched white head covering. They are very legalistic and believe in head coverings. 

[Firm Foundation]

12 hours ago, missmuffet said:

It is not her hair. It is a scarve, hat or a veil. The Amish wear a starched white head covering. They are very legalistic and believe in head coverings. 

It says in the text it is her hair that is given for a covering.

[missmuffet]

3 hours ago, Firm Foundation said:

It says in the text it is her hair that is given for a covering.

Establishing hair length for submission is not something that is necessary today. It is legalistic. God looks at the heart not how long your hair is. 

[Willa]

On 3/13/2020 at 11:50 AM, Servant of the Lord said:

11:6-- “For if a woman will not cover herself, then she should cut off her hair; but if it is disgraceful for a woman to have her hair cut off or to be shaved, she should keep it covered.

In our society it is no longer shameful for a woman to have cut hair so it would seem it is not necessary to cover the head.  This is the current custom in most churches.  

However, social norms no longer require a woman to be in submission.  So I would suggest compliance simply to set ourselves apart from the rebellion in the world.  Even a turban would cover the hair.

What are women to do if we don't have husbands?  Do we now have Christ as our authority and honor Him by not covering our heads as men do?  This is where it becomes confusing to me.

[Servant of the Lord]

On 3/16/2020 at 9:05 AM, Firm Foundation said:

It says in the text it is her hair that is given for a covering.

Greetings,

Thanks for your contribution to the thread.   The hair = head covering is one of the most common and poorly conceived explanations. Please see below:

Two points are significant: (1) No word for veil occurs in vv 2-14. Thus, that the hair is regarded by Paul as a veil in v 15 is not necessarily an argument that the hair is the same as the head covering that he is describing in these verses. (2) Throughout this periscope, Paul points out the similarities of long hair with a head covering. But his doing so strongly suggests that the two are not to be identified. Precisely because they are similar, they are not identical. Note the following verses.

11:5-- “but any woman who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered disgraces her head--it is one and the same thing as having her head shaved.”
11:6-- “For if a woman will not cover herself, then she should cut off her hair; but if it is disgraceful for a woman to have her hair cut off or to be shaved, she should keep it covered.
11:7-- “For a man ought not to cover his head . . .”
11:10-- “For this reason a woman ought to have [a symbol of] authority on her head”
11:13-- “Is it proper for a woman to pray to God with her head uncovered?”
11:15-- “but if a woman has long hair, it is her glory . . .”

Several points can be made here.

(1) If ‘covering’ = ‘hair,’ then all men should shave their heads or go bald because the men are to have their heads uncovered.

(2) If ‘covering’ = ‘long hair,’ then v 6 seems to suggest a tautology: “if a woman will not wear long hair, then she should cut off her hair.” But this in no way advances the argument.

(3) The argument caves in by its own subtlety. To see ‘hair’ = ‘head covering’ means that one has to go through several exegetical hoops. In short, it hardly appears to be the plain meaning of the text.

(4) Verses 10 and 15 would have to be saying the same thing if long hair is the same as a head covering. But this can hardly be the case. In v 10, a woman is required to wear a ‘symbol of authority.’ Such a symbol represents her submission, not her glory.

Paul begins the verse by pointing back to v 9 (διὰ τοῦτο in v 10, ‘for this reason,’ is inferential). Because ‘woman was created for the sake of man’ she ought to wear a symbol of authority on her head. But in v 15, a woman’s long hair is her glory. The Greek is even more emphatic: the dative αὐτῇ is a dative of advantage. A literal translation would be: ‘it is a glory to her’ or ‘a glory accruing to her,’ or ‘to her advantage.’ Surely this is not the point of v 10!

To argue, then, that long hair is the woman’s head covering seems to miss the very point of the function of the head covering and of the long hair: one shows her submission while the other shows her glory. Both of these are contrasted with an uncovered head while praying or prophesying, or a shaved head at any time: such would speak of the woman’s humiliation and shame.

Edited March 17, 2020 by Servant of the Lord