Jostler Posted March 16, 2020 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 24 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2,679 Content Per Day: 1.37 Reputation: 3 Days Won: 16 Joined: 01/19/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted March 16, 2020 (edited) 14 minutes ago, DustyRoad said: Brother, that's merely part of a life-long process. If we knew everything then we wouldn't have need of a Teacher; if we're perfect then what use have we for a Savior? Furthermore, who are we to judge or preach to others about faith and believing when we're poor examples ourselves? I'll tell you the truth: I catch the undercurrent of something familiar in all of this talk of empowerment... it smacks of "kingdom living now" and the seeds of the Word Faith movement to my sensibilities. The fact of the matter is thus and I'm not ashamed to confess it here before my bothers and sisters: I'm damaged goods and yet the Lord has regard for me, @Jostler. I'm destitute and don't own property. No, I don't always believe in a way that's going to impress the likes of you (or the creator of this topic) but I'm assured of one thing: my Father in heaven has regard for me, brother. I'll listen to Him and heed His Spirit... good luck with empowerment, kingdom living, and all that. I'll continue to be transformed by the Lord far removed from the nonsense of towns and cities, thanks. I can see by the response that we're not clearly understanding each other....and I'm not sure how to fix that. I can see you are making assumptions about what I think and believe that I really don't think or believe. I am familiar with "Kingdom Now" thinking and do not adhere to it at all....and honestly, i would never ever say being honest with where we are at is a wrong thing either. So, I don't know what to do except let what I said stand, and pray He'll assist with better communication. What is said, is not always what is "heard".....a very common frustration when humans attempt to communicate Edited March 16, 2020 by Jostler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blood Bought 1953 Posted March 16, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 13 Topic Count: 48 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 6,726 Content Per Day: 2.84 Reputation: 6,258 Days Won: 5 Joined: 12/03/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted March 16, 2020 8 hours ago, Gideon said: You miss the point of my posts, brother. In fact, I have said many times that weakness is a blessing, because it makes us look away from our insufficiency to our sll sufficient God and His promises of what His salvation actually offers us.. My issue is not that Christians are weak and cannot overcome sins. It is the contentment with staying in that state, thinking grace makes hardened hearts a non-issue, that worries me. We are told that godliness with contentment is great gain. But make no mistake, contentment without godliness will be great loss to millions unless there is massive repentance. God sent His Son into the world to deliver us from evil, from the power of darkness. It starts with forgiveness, but by no means ends there. God promises to sanctify us wholly, body, soul and spirit and set us FREE INDEED, but what do we see? His people, content to be forgiven alone, with no desire to truly see sin and self-love overcome in their walks, and that, dear brother, cannot continue. Change is coming, HUGE change. We can either willingly admit our error, our contentment without godliness, our stance that because of grace, we have need of nothing, or we will have it shaken out of us. We are given this mandate, and it is best we no longer ignore it. "Let all who name the name of the Lord depart from iniquity." Yet how many there are who have reasoned that since this is impossible with our efforts, why sweat it ? We have grace! But this is not grace at all that we have but deep deception. This is turning the grace of God into lasciviousness, a belief that because of God, God now winks at our sins, but will send others to hell for doing the very same things. No, friends. Grace, real Biblical grace, teaches us to deny ungodliness and worldly lusts and to live soberly, righteously and justly in this present life. But this is not what we see, is it? We see millions not sweating that they commit sins every day, many of them willful ones, with no resistance at all inside their hearts. I hear men again and again use Romans 7 as their justification, but it is clear this is Paul under the law. And do you know what? Even then, a battle raged within him. He hated.... HATED.... the sin that ruled over Him ,and he cried out with all that was within him fro God to do what God has promised to do for each one of us. And what was that? Deliver us from evil. But that has not been the mindset of most in the church at all. We have accepted that victory is impossible this side of Heaven, and because of that, our continuance in sin has hardened our hearts. How few there are who are truly trying to obey their God in all things. How rare those blessed saints are who, despite their weaknesses, still long to be freed and refuse to accept that this is the best God can do. Multitudes across all denominational lines have been lulled into a deep sleep, with no guilt, no shame, while the enemy laighs with glee. God is waiting for His own to seek Him to deliver them from self and sin, and instead, they are too busy living their lives as if they were their own, with no real hunger to truly obey their God. Jesus said that unless we hate our life, we cannot be His disciples. But our modern take on Christianity knows nothing of that. Why is this hatred required? Because until we do, we cannot look away from us, and believe for the miracle of His righteousness within in us. We must lose our lives to find His in us. Look, we may not know HOW this can happen, HOW Jesus can bring us to the point where He causes us to obey Him, but Ixpray we listen well. We will NEVER see the answer of HOW to walk as obedience children with new natures....until we cannot live without it. What i have seen and heard in many of these answers is simply a plowing under of Paul's question to us. He asked... "Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound?" Our answer has been..... up till now..... "Sure, yeah, grace!" But may we all be warned that havecaccepted this as Christianity. If that remains our take on things, we will be swept away with what is coming on the horizon. But praise God, to the one who recognizes his weakness, yet who cannot shut off the desire of his heart to truly walk pleasing to God, God is about to remove the blinders of unbelief and deliver every single soul that cries our to Him for the victory He has so clearly promised. A new day is dawning. The church is about to be awakened to righteousness and sin not. Not by "working" for our salvation, but rather by God working in us both to will, And to do of His good pleasure. Welcome to the book of Acts, part two. ? blessings, Gideon With all due respect , your post is so replete with misunderstandings, half- truths and false assumptions, I don't know where it start ......so I won’t . You have no idea about the thinking of those who have chosen to REST in the Finished Work Of The Cross. How can you dissect something you have never lived? I could pontificate all day about Taoism, but having never “lived” it, my opinion of it would be Of no real value. I know all about the religion of “ trying” to be obedient . I am “ all-in” when it comes to Obedience.Only a Fool would be in favor of Disobedience.I just happen to know that obedience has Nothing to do with Salvation. But just for Pretend’s Sake , let’s say that it does. Setting aside the fact that obsessing over sin is a sin in and of itself.....showing a lack of Faith in the Promise Of God that He has “ Forgotten all of our sins and trespasses”, Having cast them off to the “ deepest depths of the sea”, let’s divide up into two groups all that “ proclaim” to be Christians. Group “A” worries about Obedience and “ Tries” to follow the Rules religiously , believing that is what Saves him or keeps him Saved. Maybe the guy has not fallen for “ that” lie .If his obedience is based on that, that poor soul is still Lost and I have nothing to say to him other than pray that The Holy Spirit “ Give him eyes to see.” But let’s say the guy is saved and tries to be obedient because he wants to please God, avoid chastisement, or he wants to be a good witness for the Faith...... Group “B”realizes the Value Of Obedience.....not for Salvation or for the Keeping Of Salvation......He finds himself in total agreement with other group— he “ also” wants to please God , avoid Chastisement and be a good witness for the faith. The Question becomes what is the best path to find Obedience.Do we spend out time worrying about how we are doing in our striving to keep track of the Rules and Laws and using will- Power to keep the “ Old Man” at bay? Let’s not take our eyes off ourselves and how “ obedient” we are being at every waking moment .No time for any REST, or in actuality , never cease in our TRYING to be obedient.Im certain a certain level of Obedience will be attained using that method.Good job , Group “A” ! “ Trying” got results! Now let’s take a look at another way to become “ Obedient”.It is the Way Of Group “B”. I lived in that other group for a long time . Having seen both sides , I think I may be better qualified to speak on both Ways and which is a more effective Way to get to our Goal- Obedience. Here is my way of thinking....I believe it is Biblical...... I don’t concern myself with being Obedient.I don’t WORRY about it.Its a waste of time.I only “ worry” about the thing that God TOLD me to worry about- in fact, God went way beyond that! God warned us to LIVE IN FEAR that we fail to show “ Obedience” to Him by not RESTING IN THE GOSPEL of Grace.Why is this such a big deal to God. Because He wants the obedience we have been discussing and He knows how to Get It! It ain’t by “trying” or “ working” at it.God knows that TRUE OBEDIENCE is a By- Product Of Love.Love is a By-Product Of TRUSTING. If one Trusts or RESTS in the Gospel Of Grace and understands that he is totally and eternally forgiven by what Christ accomplished on the Cross FOR him only because of the unbelievable Love He had for undeserving, wicked sinners......the natural response to that Amazing Grace and Love will be to return that Love. As I have said before , LOVE is the ENGINE that drives Obedience.As long as one is Trying to “ act” obedient , that is all you will ever have.An act.I prefer to “BE” Obedient . It ALL starts with RESTING in a PROMISE of God- NOT a RULE of God.Trusting in a Promise Of God is what Faith is.Quit “ trying” and start “ trusting.” Rest is just another word for Faith or Trust.REST in the Gospel That Saves you, and watch your Obedience increase without you even trying. BEING OBEDIENT trumps ACTING OBEDIENT— you fail to understand it because you have not lived it . I have- its why I am in Group “B”. If you ain’t in it..... “ Be Fearful”..... God’s Words, not mine. God bless.... 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Gideon Posted March 16, 2020 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 14 Topic Count: 79 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,177 Content Per Day: 0.30 Reputation: 826 Days Won: 1 Joined: 10/04/2013 Status: Offline Author Share Posted March 16, 2020 (edited) 15 hours ago, DustyRoad said: Brother, that's merely part of a life-long process. If we knew everything then we wouldn't have need of a Teacher; if we're perfect then what use have we for a Savior? Furthermore, who are we to judge or preach to others about faith and believing when we're poor examples ourselves? I'll tell you the truth: I catch the undercurrent of something familiar in all of this talk of empowerment... it smacks of "kingdom living now" and the seeds of the Word Faith movement to my sensibilities. The fact of the matter is thus and I'm not ashamed to confess it here before my bothers and sisters: I'm damaged goods and yet the Lord has regard for me, @Jostler. I'm destitute and don't own property. No, I don't always believe in a way that's going to impress the likes of you (or the creator of this topic) but I'm assured of one thing: my Father in heaven has regard for me, brother. I'll listen to Him and heed His Spirit... good luck with empowerment, kingdom living, and all that. I'll continue to be transformed by the Lord far removed from the nonsense of towns and cities, thanks. I know we have been taught that growing from the old man to the new man is a lifelong process. The question must be asked however. Why, for the most part, is it not working? If it is just a time issue, should not there be saints that have been children of God for forty, fifty or more years, completely sold out to God, glowing with victory and holiness? Not just a few, but most? But we are told in scripture that there is a reckoning that must declares it done, by faith alone, not in the process of dying to self. As the OP, do you think somehow I am preaching a Word of Faith approach to this? The truth of the matter is, a great portion of the Word of Faith movement has set their eyes on THIS world, and that is where their treasures lie..... and it is false Christianity. Do you somehow think as I am posting what I share that I am soaking prosperity in, LOL? I am 70 years old, with a wife with three forms of cancer, presently battling double pneumonia. On top of that, she and I have been blessed to be able to adopt our 10 year old grandson as well as our three year old great grandson. And we also rent, and would probably fall into your category of being destitute if we were lookingvat it with earthly eyes, lol. Our lives at present are like trying to navigate the rapids of life, and we are in white water territory, just as you are. I am not complaining. Life can be difficult, and I am not immune to that truth, but God has never let me down, and has kept me despite my often difficult circumstances. It is important we realize that the principles of faith that have been misused by the Word of Faith movement remain true, whether some misuse them or not. . We must still believe that we receive before we actually see the fruits of our faith. I pray you do not throw out the baby with the bath water here. God has promised to make us more than overcomers. Oh, let us finally believe Him! God has asked us to walk by faith, and this cannot be any more true than our walking with our old nature reckoned dead as we believe that we truly are new natured people, able to say no to the devil every time he comes tempting us. Darkness is about to be unleashed on this world in a way that we cannot yet even imagine. If we let pet sins remain, they will eventually turn on us and bite us. There is a safe place for every single one of God's children to run. It is INTO Him. But, we must understand, our old nature will never agree to the full surrender God asks of us that guarantees our full protection, where we are "kept by the power of God through faith". God said "Nothing profits but a new creature." I pray we are finally fully awakened to the depths of that truth. It is not to be feared, for it is here alone our walk with God will cause us to soar like eagles. blessings, Dusty Gideon Edited March 16, 2020 by Gideon 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Your closest friendnt Posted March 16, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 18 Topic Count: 7 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,932 Content Per Day: 2.42 Reputation: 2,785 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/05/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted March 16, 2020 On 3/13/2020 at 7:03 PM, johnthebaptist said: If we are doing what God instructed us to do, I think we are light. On 3/14/2020 at 2:44 AM, missmuffet said: Both. Interesting and perplexed questions... I am not sure if there is an answer to this question.... The first part of the question is... "are we the light in the Lord". When I was young I had to be in the light of my parents.... Then the light of my teachers.... Then in the light of the Pastors and the elders.... Not an easy path....everyone in some authority wants to be our light.... Then the light according to the wife.....and then the light of the in-laws....everyone wanted to judge by their light...no just me but the whole world..... And the devil.....distorted spirit appeared as the Angel of light of God.... Who can save (me) from all that.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnthebaptist Posted March 16, 2020 Group: Non-Conformist Theology Followers: 6 Topic Count: 118 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 4,361 Content Per Day: 2.27 Reputation: 2,109 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/25/2019 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/03/1953 Share Posted March 16, 2020 5 minutes ago, Your closest friendnt said: Interesting and perplexed questions... I am not sure if there is an answer to this question.... The first part of the question is... "are we the light in the Lord". When I was young I had to be in the light of my parents.... Then the light of my teachers.... Then in the light of the Pastors and the elders.... Not an easy path....everyone in some authority wants to be our light.... Then the light according to the wife.....and then the light of the in-laws....everyone wanted to judge by their light...no just me but the whole world..... And the devil.....distorted spirit appeared as the Angel of light of God.... Who can save (me) from all that.... [14] "You are the light of the world. A city set on a hill cannot be hid. [15] Nor do men light a lamp and put it under a bushel, but on a stand, and it gives light to all in the house. [16] Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works and give glory to your Father who is in heaven. Matt 5:14-16 RSV 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jostler Posted March 16, 2020 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 24 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2,679 Content Per Day: 1.37 Reputation: 3 Days Won: 16 Joined: 01/19/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted March 16, 2020 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Your closest friendnt said: ....Who can save (me) from all that.... the Light of the world, the true light. Quote Jhn 8:12 Then Jesus spoke to them again, saying, “I am the light of the world. He who follows Me shall not walk in darkness, but have the light of life.” Quote Mat 5:13-16 ¶ “You are the salt of the earth; but if the salt loses its flavor, how shall it be seasoned? It is then good for nothing but to be thrown out and trampled underfoot by men. ¶ “You are the light of the world. A city that is set on a hill cannot be hidden. Nor do they light a lamp and put it under a basket, but on a lampstand, and it gives light to all who are in the house. Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works and glorify your Father in heaven." If we just dare to believe we are dead, reckon ourselves as having died with Him on that cross, He who IS the Light of the world can shine through us into the darkness around us Edited March 16, 2020 by Jostler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alive Posted March 16, 2020 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 22 Topic Count: 194 Topics Per Day: 0.11 Content Count: 11,054 Content Per Day: 6.43 Reputation: 9,018 Days Won: 36 Joined: 09/12/2019 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/09/1956 Share Posted March 16, 2020 Where do we place our trust? Does this change with circumstances? Does this change with a timeline? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Your closest friendnt Posted March 16, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 18 Topic Count: 7 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,932 Content Per Day: 2.42 Reputation: 2,785 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/05/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted March 16, 2020 43 minutes ago, Jostler said: the Light of the world, the true light. If we just dare to believe we are dead, reckon ourselves as having died with Him on that cross, He who IS the Light of the world can shine through us into the darkness around us Sunday morning we are in the light....evening and night comes...as the darkness sets in...we found ones own self following in the deeds of the night.... I know in Heaven we will always have light and are not going to be in our earthly bodies...then I can say I am in the light of Jesus Christ all the time...no problem to be in the light for there is one way only of the light...the devil one time expel from heaven, but that can never happened to anyone of us... But living here on earth still in the body (we)(I), can try to have some good behavior and some charity...or seeking to project a good behavior.... But there are many lights of good behavior and charity in the world...why Jesus Christ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gideon Posted March 16, 2020 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 14 Topic Count: 79 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,177 Content Per Day: 0.30 Reputation: 826 Days Won: 1 Joined: 10/04/2013 Status: Offline Author Share Posted March 16, 2020 (edited) 54 minutes ago, Your closest friendnt said: Sunday morning we are in the light....evening and night comes...as the darkness sets in...we found ones own self following in the deeds of the night.... I know in Heaven we will always have light and are not going to be in our earthly bodies...then I can say I am in the light of Jesus Christ all the time...no problem to be in the light for there is one way only of the light...the devil one time expel from heaven, but that can never happened to anyone of us... But living here on earth still in the body (we)(I), can try to have some good behavior and some charity...or seeking to project a good behavior.... But there are many lights of good behavior and charity in the world...why Jesus Christ... Yes, it is true we still have fleshly bodies, and the lusts of the body are there to still tempt us to sin. And prior to our salvation, we had fleshly natures living hand in hand with our fleshly bodies and that, as we know produces some BAD fruit. But we are clearly told that something changed when we were saved. Our old natures were done away with... DEAD. We rose up with Jesus as new creatures, housed temporarily in fleshly bodies. But Paul makes it clear in Romans 8 that if Christ is in us. we are no longer in rhe flesh, but in the Spirit, and that..... are we listening.... we owe the flesh NOTHING. We have been taught that, try as we might, we can never cease from sin. But that is not what God has said. Listen: ..."for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure." Philippians 2:13 Wow! What an idea! The entire basis of the old testament was built on the principle of obedience. Obey my voice, and I will be your God, and you shall be my people. But all that changed in the new testament. Or did it? Was obedience done away with under the new covenant? Or, was it not given as a command, but as a promise? Have we been promised that our God will actually cause us to obey Him? Indeed we have. There are two places in the Old Testament where the coming New Covenant is promised and where its benefits are listed. One is found in Jeremiah 31, the other in Ezekiel 36. The two are extremely similar, with one notable and very overlooked difference. It is found in Ezekiel 36. Here is what God says in verse 26. "I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; I will take the heart of stone out of your flesh and give you a heart of flesh." So far, very similar to Jeremiah. Then, we read THIS verse. "I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments and do them." Ezekiel 36:26-27 We have been operating under half a gospel for 1900 years. Is it any wonder we often declare 'peace, peace', when inside, we have no peace? All that is about to change. God is even now opening our eyes to what we have missed, believing that God actually can AND WILL cause us to walk in true full obedience. Not by turning us into robots. but by no longer dwelling WITH but actually living IN us. Glory! If it is impossible to be brought to the point that we do not fulfill the lusts of the flesh, then abiding in Him is an impossibility as well, for the two go hand in hand. The question is.... HOW? Rhe answer is to reckon ourselves.... the old us.... as already having died. That is not who we are, it is who we WERE. So who are we? New creatures. But there is a problem. We have not believed it.... yet. In these last days, as the shakings intensify, we who are His will be brought to realize we simply do not have the strength or resolve to say no to temptations. If we cannot say no to temptations now , what happens when the mark of the beast arrives? What will cause us to remain faithful, obedient, no matter the cost? Rhe answer is not a what, but a WHO! Has God birthed the church in joy, victory and power, only to see it limp into glory hanging on by its fingernails? No way. The book of Acts was the early rain, followed by 1900 years of long dry summer, where the basic tenants of Christian doctrine were preserved but as far as light, life and victory were concerned, with but few notable exceptions, Christianity limped towards the finished line. But praise God, we are even now entering the period called the latter rain, where it is promised we as His people will again be brought fully alive, walking as overcomers in victory over the world, the flesh and the devil. And finally, the heathen WILL know we serve the true God for they shall see Him sanctified IN US before their very eyes. That is our soon-to-be future. Our birthright. Our heritage..... the God who actually indwells us to such a point that as Paul declared, it is no more us that live, but Christ who now lives in us. THAT is abiding in Christ, and that is where we discover, to our great amazement, He actually does cause us to obey Him. Glory! blessings, Gideon Edited March 16, 2020 by Gideon 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBlade Posted March 17, 2020 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 70 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 2,259 Content Per Day: 1.36 Reputation: 1,156 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/06/2019 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/25/1961 Share Posted March 17, 2020 I think .. is not what you said = truth? Not sure what your asking. "Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid." "For while we were still helpless, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly. For one will hardly die for a righteous man; though perhaps for the good man someone would dare even to die. But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us." one of many.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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