Pre-Wrath Rapture

[Last Daze]

42 minutes ago, Diaste said:

As I think you have said the 7th trump is not the same as the trump of God. That seems right in light of the quoted passage.

True.  I see the 7th trumpet as announcing the day of the Lord.  When it sounds, Jesus leaves heaven to begin the restoration of all things.  First order of business is to appear in the clouds and sound the trumpet of God.  The 7th trumpet and the trumpet of God sound in quick succession on the last day.

[Behold]

On 4/5/2020 at 9:31 PM, JasonPerkins said:

  I dont associate the Tribulation as God's wrath.  God's wrath is what happens after the 7th Trumpet where he pours out the vials of his wrath on the those whom worshiped the beast. 

God's wrath is 2nd Thessalonians 1:8, and is related to Christ Rejectors.   '""In flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ."""

So, you might consider reworking your end time theology a bit, as you left that out..

The best advice i can give you, is to put away all commentaries, and instead study the NEW TESTAMENT, especially the epistles of Paul.

Thats the "safe zone" and the "truth zone", regarding any Theology.

Edited April 7, 2020 by Behold

[Jedi4Yahweh]

2 hours ago, Behold said:

God's wrath is 2nd Thessalonians 1:8, and is related to Christ Rejectors.   '""In flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ."""

So, you might consider reworking your end time theology a bit, as you left that out..

The best advice i can give you, is to put away all commentaries, and instead study the NEW TESTAMENT, especially the epistles of Paul.

Thats the "safe zone" and the "truth zone", regarding any Theology.

Your not making any sense.  Those whom worshiped the beast ARE those whom do not know God nor obey the Gospel.  The bible says the whole world worshiped the beast except for those whom did not take the mark nor worshiped the beast.  Nothing wrong with my timeline.  It was Paul who said that Messiah would return at the Last Trumpet.  Its funny how you attack my theology but do not explain yours.

[Behold]

2 hours ago, JasonPerkins said:

Your not making any sense.  Those whom worshiped the beast ARE those whom do not know God nor obey the Gospel.  The bible says the whole world worshiped the beast except for those whom did not take the mark nor worshiped the beast.  Nothing wrong with my timeline.  It was Paul who said that Messiah would return at the Last Trumpet.  Its funny how you attack my theology but do not explain yours.

No, i said you left that verse out, and as that is the main verse which describes WHY Christ is performing all that Vengeance......That verse does not need to be left out of your post or theology.

What you wrote is  like saying....""".And the Burgler broke into the castle and robbed it of everything.""""  But you never say what was taken.... and the EVERYTHING is the main thing..

So, Jesus is coming back, got it....you said that, and you put together your end time puzzle,.... good...... and that's fine, but then you dont state WHY he's coming back......so, that kinda matters regarding what you are trying to learn to teach, so, that is why i posted to you.

 

Edited April 7, 2020 by Behold

[Jedi4Yahweh]

3 hours ago, Behold said:

No, i said you left that verse out, and as that is the main verse which describes WHY Christ is performing all that Vengeance......That verse does not need to be left out of your post or theology.

What you wrote is  like saying....""".And the Burgler broke into the castle and robbed it of everything.""""  But you never say what was taken.... and the EVERYTHING is the main thing..

So, Jesus is coming back, got it....you said that, and you put together your end time puzzle,.... good...... and that's fine, but then you dont state WHY he's coming back......so, that kinda matters regarding what you are trying to learn to teach, so, that is why i posted to you.

 

I am sorry I did not write book for you explaining every little nuance? 

 

Seems pretty clear to me.

Edited April 7, 2020 by Jedi4Yahweh

[RonaldBruno]

9 hours ago, The Light said:

If you could use scripture to prove what I say is wrong, I'm listening. That's how you learn.

You gave Rev. 14 as proof that I was wrong. The harvest in that chapter is of judgment, death, the angels are killing those on earth. And then you stated that that chapter described the gathering of the ELECT - wow, you have that wrong. That chapter reflects judgment, blood, fire, etc. Jesus came on a white horse for Judgment. However, Mark 13 does describe the gathering of the ELECT, literally.

 

[RonaldBruno]

9 hours ago, The Light said:

 

 

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Edited April 8, 2020 by RonaldBruno
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[RonaldBruno]

The seventh trumpet is the last trumpet. It is not a trumpet blown by humans during  Feast. It is blown by an angel in heaven. A trumpet blown during Feasts will not signal God to resurrect the living and the dead - pretty arrogant of man to think that though and quite fun. I suppose God is up there just waiting, counting, 97, 98, 99, 100 - "Good job bugle boy ... Ok, release the Kraken". 

 

Edited April 8, 2020 by RonaldBruno
Humor

[The Light]

3 hours ago, RonaldBruno said:

Quote

You gave Rev. 14 as proof that I was wrong. The harvest in that chapter is of judgment, death, the angels are killing those on earth. And then you stated that that chapter described the gathering of the ELECT - wow, you have that wrong. That chapter reflects judgment, blood, fire, etc. Jesus came on a white horse for Judgment. However, Mark 13 does describe the gathering of the ELECT, literally.

Rev 14 does prove you wrong, you are just not grasping what is happening. 1st Jesus is in the clouds. There is nowhere in those verses that say Jesus was on the earth. Nor is there any indication that he has returned with his armies and is on a white horse.

Rev 14

¹⁴ And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

The verses that follow show that Jesus swings the sickle and earth is reaped. It is the good that are gathered when He swings the sickle. Then an angel swings a different sickle and those are cast into the wrath of God.

Then we see the concluding verse

²⁰ And the winepress was trodden without the city, and blood came out of the winepress, even unto the horse bridles, by the space of a thousand and six hundred furlongs.

We can tell that the people are cast into the wrath of God and there's a bunch of blood.

So if the good are gathered to the clouds and the rest are cast into the wrath of God and trodden to a river of blood, that would be the end of the story. But that's not the end of the story as we see God's wrath is released in the vials. And then Armageddon occurs when Jesus returns with His armies to the earth.

So what you are looking at in Rev 14 is the gathering. And then some are cast into the wrath of God. Additionally, we can see that the wrath of God begins when the 1st trumpet is blown. We can see the wrath of God is over at the 7th trumpet. Then we can see the wrath of God beginning with the 1st vial and ending at the 7th vial.

The trumpets and vials are just different views of Gods wrath and Rev 14 is the gathering which also is shown at the 6th seal and at the coming of Jesus in Matt 24.

 

 

 

Edited April 8, 2020 by The Light

[R. Hartono]

18 hours ago, Last Daze said:

True.  I see the 7th trumpet as announcing the day of the Lord.  When it sounds, Jesus leaves heaven to begin the restoration of all things.  First order of business is to appear in the clouds and sound the trumpet of God.  The 7th trumpet and the trumpet of God sound in quick succession on the last day.

 

On 4/6/2020 at 9:31 AM, JasonPerkins said:

Though out my studies of scripture I have come to the conclusion that we will be rapture'd at the last trumpet (7th Trumpet) spoken of in revelations.

The trumpet of Rapture is not the same with the 7 trumpets of God's wrath. Because to Paul the 7 trumpets of God's wrath was not revealed yet, until it was revealed to apostle John in Patmos island around 85 CE.

Imagine if rapture takes place after the 7 trumpets of God's wrath, where God's fierce judgment will exterminate the earth and billions of people, the saints will die of catastrophies be4 the 7th trumpets sound, remember God said :

1 Thes 5:9 For God did not appoint us to suffer wrath.....