The Shakings are beginning (written in late 2019)

[Gideon]

42 minutes ago, Alive said:

And yet this is exactly what you are doing. All of your carefully packaged ramblings are nothing but clever twists. Twists that say the work of Christ on the Cross and His rising and ascension are not enough. You create a doctrine that says you must 'do' more. This is old stuff and I have seen it before and it 'never' ends well for the poor folks that listen. It ends in a group of individuals who come to believe they are more special than all other saints of God. But because your doctrine appeals to the 'flesh', it wears them out and they become even more confused. Sometimes some find their way back to the 'True' safety.

The man that gathers some poor saints together and goes on teaching like you are doing, will end in elevating himself and will make a cult of personality--and that one will fail and in the process those that follow him will become more confused. This is what happens every time.

Because this appeals to the fleshly efforts and folks cannot succeed to reach this lofty goal that you hang in front of them, you will end up making rules (fences) to keep them penned into your 'vision'--from there it continues to devolve into pure legalism. Every, single time.

This is how the enemy works.

if you do not agree, would it not better to dispute the message being presented, rather than make it personal and attack the messenger?  Which would be the path of love? 

Gids

[missmuffet]

I believe the original post is in regards to this plague we are dealiing with right now. In the OT God did bring plagues and disasters to His people. He did this to make them see power Exodus 9:14. This Corona virus we are dealing with right now is just the preview of what is to come in the 7 year tribulation. We are living in a fallen world. It is a reminder that life on this earth is short and can be lost at any moment. Although during all of this the true Christian has assurance of salvation and eternal life. 

[Alive]

45 minutes ago, Gideon said:

if you do not agree, would it not better to dispute the message being presented, rather than make it personal and attack the messenger?  Which would be the path of love? 

Gids

That dog won't hunt...try again.

[*Zion*]

15 hours ago, Gideon said:

I have shared before, many will initially resist the truth and see no need for change. But the coming  shakings will be unrelenting, and all who love the Lord WILL eventually hear His voice and run to put on their new natures  believing that their God not only forgives us, but also has made a way of full victory for us, and that He will plant our feet on the very neck of the devil.  Up til now, He has kept us remaining in our prison cells, even though the Lord has ripped the door off the hinges.  Thank God, those days are ending and His bride will discover the How of holiness and prepare herself through the Spirit dwelling within and ready hersepf for the upcoming wedding. 

Look, dear brother. i get it. There will most definitely be resistance to the message of complete victory God offers us  in the new man.  It comes with the territory. All I can do is respond in love, re-state the truth of who we are, and pray that His precious saihts have ears will hear what the Lord is speaking to us. To all who long to walk free from the flesh so that they  can bring honor to the one we love. God will NOT disappoint.

Be blessed, dead Alive.

Gids

I agree: we serve a Holy God who has cleansed us and purified us that we would not only be rid of sin, but also remain holy before Him.  That is a work of grace through His Word and His Spirit, but we must allow this work to continue until the day we are perfect.  The bible tells us to work out our salvation in fear and trembling before God.  Not before man, though.  God is not a respecter of persons, though He loves us dearly.

All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God, but all have been given the free gift of life.  All must choose whether or not to accept that gift.  All must choose to keep that gift.  We are not under the law, praise God.  Rather, He has now written the law in our hearts!  Now the standards are even higher, in order to fulfil the law therein.  We can't even look with lust or we will be committing adultery in our hearts.  We cannot burn with hatred or else we commit murder in our hearts.  Ah, the heart.  As the scriptures say, it is deceitful above all things!  But as God's Word grows there, it is changed from a heart of stone to a heart of flesh.  We can choose to let it grow, or stifle it with our own preferences.  Our will, not His will, being done; degrading and polluting the gift.

Scary thought.  Actually, i just really scared myself.  May God have mercy upon us all.

As you say: he who has ears, let him hear.

[Behold]

On 4/10/2020 at 5:18 PM, *Zion* said:

While I agree with Kwik that we must not stray off topic, I believe this is a very important part of it, and will affect how we shall stand upon the shaking that may be taking place at this time.  

Yes while we were still sinners Jesus died for us.  Does that mean that we should go on sinning?  Does it mean our sin no longer has consequence?  Does it mean we can break our end of covenant with Jesus and yet still expect to benefit from it?

What about those to whom He will say He did not know?  Are they covenant partakers?  Did He not die for them?  Did they not accept Him once upon a time?  Does it at all affect our security in a time of shaking, whether we are living persistently sinful lives or not?  (Note how I make the distinction between sin that is repented of, and sin that is persisted in, for ALL have sinned and fallen short of God's glory)  What does the bible mean when it tells us to work out our salvation in fear and trembling?

What are your take on these questions?

I only ask to understand your views better

Zion,

Trying to simplify how the  ETERNAL Grace of God is manifested is always my goal regarding all who find me.   I only want a believer to come to the revelation of the Glorious simplicity that is found by being": "in Christ" .

So, lets talk about Discipleship.

Discipleship : is a religious work that can't pay for your sin, or its   deeds committed as a holy lifestyle by a Christian BECAUSE God has saved them for FREE.

Always remember reader..... that God saved YOU using a CROSS, and He does not save you or KEEP YOU SAVED, because of your behavior.

"Born again" Discipleship is really just Giving God your Life, in appreciation for the Fact that God has Given you HIS. = (Jesus.. the resurrection and THE LIFE)

Prior to this......If you could be accepted by God by being a good person, a clean living person, a holy person, ...then why did Jesus have to DIE for you on a horrible Cross? 

-

ZION, you have an idea that you made a covenant with God.  But you didnt.  What you did is receive His Blood Covenant as a Gift of Salvation,  by your FAITH.

 

And what about that "sinning" and living in sin"...

Ok, well, sinners sin, and the born again do not.

And how does that work?   Its because SIN is recognized by the LAW as long as you are under the law and it has dominion over you.

If the Law loses its authority to declare that you are a "Sinner" then you can no longer be declared to be one.....by the Law & Commandments.

""Jesus has redeemed the born again from the curse of the Law". ..... which means the Law has no more authority to declare you to BE a SINNER, IF you are BORN AGAIN.

Romans 4:8 says that , after you are born again, if you do things that were previously judged to be SIN........God does no longer recognize it.  And that is because there is no authority of the Law being held against you anymore that would define you in God's eyes, as a sinner.  And why is that?    Its because Jesus not only bore your sin, He BECAME your sin......ALL of it.   And by shedding His Blood and dying, He has gained for you "eternal redemption" from the eternal judgement of the Law that was coming to you, after you were dead.  This is why an unbeliever who is still judged by the law, will meet God as JUDGE, and YOU< if you are born again, will meet God not at Judge, but as FATHER.

God can't judge you in Eternity,  for what Christ has already been Judged for on Earth. = ALL YOUR SIN. = THE CROSS.

So, when you read in the NT....>"As JESUS IS,..so are the BORN AGAIN.....IN THIS WORLD"......>IT means it.  IT MEANS that you have "the righteousness of CHRIST" as YOURS.....This is your "new birth".. this is "new Creation IN CHRIST".......So, when God looks at you, He does not see the Law judging you as a sinner ever again.... ..>He sees ONLY the Blood Atonement, the Blood of JESUS that has made you as righeous as Jesus is Himself, and for all eternity.

 

 

Edited April 12, 2020 by Behold

[*Zion*]

2 hours ago, Behold said:

Zion,

Trying to simplify how the  ETERNAL Grace of God is manifested is always my goal regarding all who find me.   I only want a believer to come to the revelation of the Glorious simplicity that is found by being": "in Christ" .

So, lets talk about Discipleship.

Discipleship : is a religious work that can't pay for your sin, or its   deeds committed as a holy lifestyle by a Christian BECAUSE God has saved them for FREE.

Always remember reader..... that God saved YOU using a CROSS, and He does not save you or KEEP YOU SAVED, because of your behavior.

"Born again" Discipleship is really just Giving God your Life, in appreciation for the Fact that God has Given you HIS. = (Jesus.. the resurrection and THE LIFE)

Prior to this......If you could be accepted by God by being a good person, a clean living person, a holy person, ...then why did Jesus have to DIE for you on a horrible Cross? 

-

ZION, you have an idea that you made a covenant with God.  But you didnt.  What you did is receive His Blood Covenant as a Gift of Salvation,  by your FAITH.

 

And what about that "sinning" and living in sin"...

Ok, well, sinners sin, and the born again do not.

And how does that work?   Its because SIN is recognized by the LAW as long as you are under the law and it has dominion over you.

If the Law loses its authority to declare that you are a "Sinner" then you can no longer be declared to be one.....by the Law & Commandments.

""Jesus has redeemed the born again from the curse of the Law". ..... which means the Law has no more authority to declare you to BE a SINNER, IF you are BORN AGAIN.

Romans 4:8 says that , after you are born again, if you do things that were previously judged to be SIN........God does no longer recognize it.  And that is because there is no authority of the Law being held against you anymore that would define you in God's eyes, as a sinner.  And why is that?    Its because Jesus not only bore your sin, He BECAME your sin......ALL of it.   And by shedding His Blood and dying, He has gained for you "eternal redemption" from the eternal judgement of the Law that was coming to you, after you were dead.  This is why an unbeliever who is still judged by the law, will meet God as JUDGE, and YOU< if you are born again, will meet God not at Judge, but as FATHER.

God can't judge you in Eternity,  for what Christ has already been Judged for on Earth. = ALL YOUR SIN. = THE CROSS.

So, when you read in the NT....>"As JESUS IS,..so are the BORN AGAIN.....IN THIS WORLD"......>IT means it.  IT MEANS that you have "the righteousness of CHRIST" as YOURS.....This is your "new birth".. this is "new Creation IN CHRIST".......So, when God looks at you, He does not see the Law judging you as a sinner ever again.... ..>He sees ONLY the Blood Atonement, the Blood of JESUS that has made you as righeous as Jesus is Himself, and for all eternity.

 

 

Thanks for your reply.  You are entitled to your opinion, and I respect that.  But you still haven't answered my questions.  I think I'll shall have to leave it at that if you keep evading them.

Bless you

[Justin Adams]

6 hours ago, *Zion* said:

Scary thought.  Actually, i just really scared myself.

I understand.

[Gideon]

3 hours ago, *Zion* said:

Thanks for your reply.  You are entitled to your opinion, and I respect that.  But you still haven't answered my questions.  I think I'll shall have to leave it at that if you keep evading them.

Bless you

Brother, thank you for your standing against false grace. God tells us clearly that if we rebuild again the thing that He destroyed, we make ourselves transgressors and the truth is not in us. Can a man's name be blotted out of the Lamb's book of life. Yes. Can God give something to a servant who makes no gain and take it away from him and give it to another? Absolutely. 

We can either take these scriptures to heart and cry out for God to cause us to obey Him as new creatures, or we can turn the grace of God into something it was never intended to be..... a covering for continuing in sin. 

I have said it before but it bears repeating. If we find ourselves living in Romans 7,  I believe we are covered as long as our heart is the same one as Paul had. He did not try to reason that since sin was unavoidable, don't sweat it as  grace made it all  ok. He hated the sin that had him, and his inability to obey. He cried out day and night for the Lord to deliver him from the wretched man he knew he was, and guess what? God heard his broken-hearted cry and did what He has promised to do for any of us who cry out to Him, to deliver us from evil. All of it. 

Yes, His grace offers us forgiveness IF.... not when.... we slip. But grace also has been offered to teach us the HOW of walking as overcomers, where we can actually count it all joy when we fall into diverse temptations. 
 

In the OSAS camp, as far as I have seen over many years, and I truly mean no disrespect, it seems there is little heart for "going on unto perfection". There is little brokenness as sin is seen as unavoidable so why be 'sin conscious'?  Any efforts to seek the Lord for victory are seen as legslistic and 'working for ones salvation' and those who do so are viewed as rejecting grace. What they do not see is that it is the brokenness for our failures that will pave  the way for us to finally apprehend the promises of God. 

What promises?

Has He not told us He will cause us to will AND to do of His good pleasure? 

Has He not promised us that He will not permit satan to tempt us more than our ability to resist?

Has He not given us shields of faith thst He has promised WILL quench ALL the fiery arrows satan throws at us? 

Has He not clearly said that  He will make a way of escape..... every time..... so that we can come through the temptation without falling? 

How in the world are we supposed to count it all joy when we fall into diverse temptations if, when we do, we choose to ignore the way of escape and then tell God, 'Hey, God, remember, I am only human."  That is not even logical, unless we adhere to the lie that says "Let us do evil that good may come'.

I am sorry, but such an attitude is a stench in the nostrils of God. Would it not be far better to come to Him in brokenness and humility, and cry our for His grace does to do what it has  promised to do, to teach us HOW to resist the devil and watch him flee from us? 

We can try vainly to bolster our position with scriptures taken out of context that we hope will  insulates us from the truth.  But God is looking at each of our heart attitude towards sin and self rule, and examining our thoughts as to whether we  hunger for ceasing from sin and dishonoring the Lord. Are we wanting God to fulfill these promises to su, longing for the faith  that God knows how to deliver the godly out of temptation, and cause us to walk in full obedience towards Him?

How many there are who do not even truly repent when they sin as they see it as unavoidable. They lean upon grace as the reason for their hard heartedness. The church started battling legalism. It will end with multitudes abusing the grace of God, making it a 'safety valve' to cover our continuing in sin and self.

I have no doubt many true children of God now hold this OSAS position, for the alternative is keeping ourselves saved, and they know that is not a safe bet! LOL. As well, working for ones salvation is seen as adding to grace and is repugnant to their understanding of grace, as well it should. 

Thanks be to God, in these last days God is going to open up our eyes the the truth, the sliver of light between faith without works and faith without works being dead. It is where we are assured that it is ALL God, ALL grace who saves us and keeps us saved ..... and as well, assuring us that we WILL bring forth fruits stemming from our full obedience. Faith plus works is NOT our efforts to stay saved. It is the promise from our Lord that if we are abiding in Him as grace has made possible, we WILL bring forth much fruits. WILL.

Here the devil cannot get us to try to take advantage of God's grace, nor get us to begin self efforts to make sure we endure to the end. The truth is that neither the OSAS position, nor the faith plus works position gives us peace, nor real manifested assurance that Heaven will be our home. All that is about to change. 

Here is the truth. The vast majority of true children of God do  not know the HOW of holiness yet,  and ever since the last drops of the early rain fell, it has remained  a sealed book. But the Spirit has expressly spoken there will  be a latter rain before the return of our Lord, restoring the church from dead divided bones as His own cry our with all that is within us to set us free from the real problem..... us.   

When we do, and escape this cursed 'contentment without godliness'  that grieves the spirit of grace whose goal is to transform us into His image, we will be awakened to the HOW of righteousness and holiness and sin not.

Brokenness and hunger must come forth. We must clearly see our calling to walk in victory over the world, the flesh and the devil,  and as wretched men, cry out for the Lord  Jesus, our deliverer, to deliver us totally and completely, jist as He has clearly promised.  And when we do, our God, the God of power, the God of miracles, the God who keeps is from falling, will roll up His sleeves and show us exactly how strong He really is. Glory! 

blessings, 

Gids

 

[*Zion*]

1 hour ago, Gideon said:

Brother, thank you for your standing against false grace. God tells us clearly that if we rebuild again the thing that He destroyed, we make ourselves transgressors and the truth is not in us. Can a man's name be blotted out of the Lamb's book of life. Yes. Can God give something to a servant who makes no gain and take it away from him and give it to another? Absolutely. 

We can either take these scriptures to heart and cry out for God to cause us to obey Him as new creatures, or we can turn the grace of God into something it was never intended to be..... a covering for continuing in sin. 

I have said it before but it bears repeating. If we find ourselves living in Romans 7,  I believe we are covered as long as our heart is the same one as Paul had. He did not try to reason that since sin was unavoidable, don't sweat it as  grace made it all  ok. He hated the sin that had him, and his inability to obey. He cried out day and night for the Lord to deliver him from the wretched man he knew he was, and guess what? God heard his broken-hearted cry and did what He has promised to do for any of us who cry out to Him, to deliver us from evil. All of it. 

Yes, His grace offers us forgiveness IF.... not when.... we slip. But grace also has been offered to teach us the HOW of walking as overcomers, where we can actually count it all joy when we fall into diverse temptations. 
 

In the OSAS camp, as far as I have seen over many years, and I truly mean no disrespect, it seems there is little heart for "going on unto perfection". There is little brokenness as sin is seen as unavoidable so why be 'sin conscious'?  Any efforts to seek the Lord for victory are seen as legslistic and 'working for ones salvation' and those who do so are viewed as rejecting grace. What they do not see is that it is the brokenness for our failures that will pave  the way for us to finally apprehend the promises of God. 

What promises?

Has He not told us He will cause us to will AND to do of His good pleasure? 

Has He not promised us that He will not permit satan to tempt us more than our ability to resist?

Has He not given us shields of faith thst He has promised WILL quench ALL the fiery arrows satan throws at us? 

Has He not clearly said that  He will make a way of escape..... every time..... so that we can come through the temptation without falling? 

How in the world are we supposed to count it all joy when we fall into diverse temptations if, when we do, we choose to ignore the way of escape and then tell God, 'Hey, God, remember, I am only human."  That is not even logical, unless we adhere to the lie that says "Let us do evil that good may come'.

I am sorry, but such an attitude is a stench in the nostrils of God. Would it not be far better to come to Him in brokenness and humility, and cry our for His grace does to do what it has  promised to do, to teach us HOW to resist the devil and watch him flee from us? 

We can try vainly to bolster our position with scriptures taken out of context that we hope will  insulates us from the truth.  But God is looking at each of our heart attitude towards sin and self rule, and examining our thoughts as to whether we  hunger for ceasing from sin and dishonoring the Lord. Are we wanting God to fulfill these promises to su, longing for the faith  that God knows how to deliver the godly out of temptation, and cause us to walk in full obedience towards Him?

How many there are who do not even truly repent when they sin as they see it as unavoidable. They lean upon grace as the reason for their hard heartedness. The church started battling legalism. It will end with multitudes abusing the grace of God, making it a 'safety valve' to cover our continuing in sin and self.

I have no doubt many true children of God now hold this OSAS position, for the alternative is keeping ourselves saved, and they know that is not a safe bet! LOL. As well, working for ones salvation is seen as adding to grace and is repugnant to their understanding of grace, as well it should. 

Thanks be to God, in these last days God is going to open up our eyes the the truth, the sliver of light between faith without works and faith without works being dead. It is where we are assured that it is ALL God, ALL grace who saves us and keeps us saved ..... and as well, assuring us that we WILL bring forth fruits stemming from our full obedience. Faith plus works is NOT our efforts to stay saved. It is the promise from our Lord that if we are abiding in Him as grace has made possible, we WILL bring forth much fruits. WILL.

Here the devil cannot get us to try to take advantage of God's grace, nor get us to begin self efforts to make sure we endure to the end. The truth is that neither the OSAS position, nor the faith plus works position gives us peace, nor real manifested assurance that Heaven will be our home. All that is about to change. 

Here is the truth. The vast majority of true children of God do  not know the HOW of holiness yet,  and ever since the last drops of the early rain fell, it has remained  a sealed book. But the Spirit has expressly spoken there will  be a latter rain before the return of our Lord, restoring the church from dead divided bones as His own cry our with all that is within us to set us free from the real problem..... us.   

When we do, and escape this cursed 'contentment without godliness'  that grieves the spirit of grace whose goal is to transform us into His image, we will be awakened to the HOW of righteousness and holiness and sin not.

Brokenness and hunger must come forth. We must clearly see our calling to walk in victory over the world, the flesh and the devil,  and as wretched men, cry out for the Lord  Jesus, our deliverer, to deliver us totally and completely, jist as He has clearly promised.  And when we do, our God, the God of power, the God of miracles, the God who keeps is from falling, will roll up His sleeves and show us exactly how strong He really is. Glory! 

blessings, 

Gids

 

Thank you Gids, though I'm actually a sister

Glory and amen!  May God show His children His strength at this time.

Blessings!

[*Zion*]

5 hours ago, Justin Adams said:

I understand.

I doubt we are understanding the same thing from it, but feel completely free to assume whatever it is you have done.

Edited April 12, 2020 by *Zion*
improved wording