The Holy Covenant of Daniel 11

[Last Daze]

4 hours ago, Diaste said:

Are we sure it matters?

I was thinking along identification, recognition lines.

[Diaste]

On 5/18/2020 at 10:16 AM, Last Daze said:

I was reading Daniel 11 and came across the phrase "holy covenant" which appeared a few times and is a point of focus.

• Then he will return to his land with much plunder; but his heart will be set against the holy covenant, and he will take action and then return to his own land.  At the appointed time he will return and come into the South, but this last time it will not turn out the way it did before.  For ships of Kittim will come against him; therefore he will be disheartened and will return and become enraged at the holy covenant and take action; so he will come back and show regard for those who forsake the holy covenant.  Daniel 11:28-30

The only other reference that I could find concerning the holy covenant was in Luke.

• To show mercy toward our fathers, and to remember His holy covenant, the oath which He swore to Abraham our father.  Luke 1:72-73

My question is, what is the holy covenant, and how would someone forsake it?

 

18 hours ago, Last Daze said:

I was thinking along identification, recognition lines.

Right. I didn't really address the OP. I saw some things in the thread that made me think.

But it seems you're spot here. The holy covenant would be the promises to Abraham of which we are the seed.  I suppose then forsaking the holy covenant would be turning one's mind and heart away from the promises of God to our father Abraham, and following after earthly promises of a false savior. An abdication of the strength and authority of God's promises through Christ by the power of the Holy Spirit, if you will.

I certainly wouldn't see the holy covenant as anything to do with the Jewish religion, ritual, liturgy, feasts, or any other ancient set of rites, traditions, and/or holy days.

 

[Gershom_young]

On 5/23/2020 at 9:11 PM, Diaste said:

I have heard a lot about this over the years. One reference is to Antiochus IV, Dan 12 is the end of the age, both refer to the end of the age, it's not literal, etc.

Are we sure it matters? 

Jesus said,

"So when you see the abomination of desolation standing where it should not be (let the reader understand), then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains."

"So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination of desolation,’ described by the prophet Daniel (let the reader understand), then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains."

Couldn't this be simply when the Christians fled Jerusalem to Pella, after Jerusalem was surrounded by Roman armies?

Edited May 29, 2020 by Gershom_young

[BeauJangles]

3 minutes ago, Gershom_young said:

 

Brilliant! 

[Gershom_young]

23 minutes ago, BeauJangles said:

Brilliant! 

I thought you asked me not to speak to you again? After your accusation that I was a troll and some sort of preacher of heresy, it seems hypocritical of you to mock.

[Diaste]

1 hour ago, Gershom_young said:

Couldn't this be simply when the Christians fled Jerusalem to Pella, after Jerusalem was surrounded by Roman armies?

It could be if one isolated those verses from the whole answer. 

[Diaste]

On 5/22/2020 at 11:43 AM, Revelation Man said:

I don't buy  into Douggg theory about an indwelling of a Statue, if the Demonic powers INDWELL anything it would be a human being. I think the words Douggg is referring to  have more to do with AI and the State making this "IMAGE" seem to come alive worldwide via some kind of AI. 

That's interesting as there are two technologies that could make that happen. I have seen a demonstration of a video manipulation technology where a video is fed through software and another person can make the image on the video speak anything. This tech could be used to manipulate a video to say things other than the original speaker.

Another is two fold: Holography and ionic projection. It's claimed tech exists to project images on the layer of the atmosphere that contains sodium. And there are some amazing holographs in existence today.

Germany, Japan and Dubai put on some amazing displays of holographic tech in their 'zoos'.

No doubt in my mind these 3 techs are being consolidated by militaries around the world. 

 

[Gershom_young]

20 hours ago, Diaste said:

It could be if one isolated those verses from the whole answer. 

Can you be more specific? My view is that the prophecy of Daniel is fulfilled, that the reference to it in the New Testament is likewise fulfilled (when no Christians were slain by the Roman army as the Christians fled to Pella as per Jesus' warning), but that the prophecy of Revelation (or at least, parts of it) is still to come.

I don't think one has to isolate any of Daniel's prophecy (or the New Testament references to it) to understand this way. I like this interpretation, as it seems to fit the facts well, and doesn't seem to come up with a "gap" period, which sort of defeats the value of a prophecy. This said, I'm interested to learn if this isolates verses from the whole answer.

[Diaste]

1 hour ago, Gershom_young said:

Can you be more specific? My view is that the prophecy of Daniel is fulfilled, that the reference to it in the New Testament is likewise fulfilled (when no Christians were slain by the Roman army as the Christians fled to Pella as per Jesus' warning), but that the prophecy of Revelation (or at least, parts of it) is still to come.

I don't think one has to isolate any of Daniel's prophecy (or the New Testament references to it) to understand this way. I like this interpretation, as it seems to fit the facts well, and doesn't seem to come up with a "gap" period, which sort of defeats the value of a prophecy. This said, I'm interested to learn if this isolates verses from the whole answer.

The Olivet discourse is an answer to a question. The full answer has to be considered. Part of that answer was the sign of Jesus coming, seeing Jesus return in the clouds, the tribes of the earth mourning and the gathering. The A of D and great tribulation are part of that. If the A of D and great tribulation already occurred when was Jesus return and the gathering of the elect? 

Since that didn't happen then neither did the A of D or great tribulation in relation to, and in proximity to, the return of Jesus. This is what I mean by isolating verses. The answer is a whole in response to a question. Then so far none has occurred. 

[George]

2 hours ago, Gershom_young said:

Can you be more specific? My view is that the prophecy of Daniel is fulfilled, that the reference to it in the New Testament is likewise fulfilled (when no Christians were slain by the Roman army as the Christians fled to Pella as per Jesus' warning), but that the prophecy of Revelation (or at least, parts of it) is still to come.

Just so you know ...

Dan 7:21  As I looked, this horn made war with the saints and prevailed over them, 

Dan 7:22  until the Ancient of Days came, and judgment was given for the saints of the Most High, and the time came when the saints possessed the kingdom. 

Dan 7:23  “Thus he said: ‘As for the fourth beast, there shall be a fourth kingdom on earth, which shall be different from all the kingdoms, and it shall devour the whole earth, and trample it down, and break it to pieces. 

Dan 7:24  As for the ten horns, out of this kingdom ten kings shall arise, and another shall arise after them; he shall be different from the former ones, and shall put down three kings. 

Dan 7:25  He shall speak words against the Most High, and shall wear out the saints of the Most High, and shall think to change the times and the law; and they shall be given into his hand for a time, times, and half a time. 

Dan 7:26  But the court shall sit in judgment, and his dominion shall be taken away, to be consumed and destroyed to the end. 

Dan 7:27  And the kingdom and the dominion and the greatness of the kingdoms under the whole heaven shall be given to the people of the saints of the Most High; his kingdom shall be an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.’ 

Dan 7:28  “Here is the end of the matter. As for me, Daniel, my thoughts greatly alarmed me, and my color changed, but I kept the matter in my heart.” 

I doubt this has been fulfilled ...

God bless,

George