Human nature: Good or Bad?

[Justin Adams]

Just now, Glory To God said:

 

Well it's not just a matter of me thinking,the scripture lays out as clear as day that man is sinful and is random happening it is our inherent nature. It shows no indication of humanity being good and I challenge you or anyone else to make a case for that to prove that position from scripture if that's what you believe. 

 

The death of Babies or unborn children is a very sensitive and emotional subject but if you want to use this as a leveraging tool to imply that sin enters after conception or childhood I will have to challenge that. So if you believe babies de facto go to heaven because of their lack of sin or sin nature and therefore sin does not take effect until later on,I would ask how you believe people are redeemed? Babies can't choose Christ as their Savior,so they don't have that propitiation offered to the Father and so the wrath of God is not exhausted for that person. Unbelief is a sin and how is this sin accounted for if a person does not accept Christ as their Savior? 

 

 

Wrong and a straw man argument. I will not take part in this kind of suppositional fluffing. It paints God in a very poor light.

Check out the age of accountability AKA, Jonah. Have a great day.

[Glory To God]

51 minutes ago, David1701 said:

Amen!

Adam and Eve were created "very good"; but, every since Adam fell, we are BY NATURE children of wrath (i.e. deserving of wrath).  This is why Jesus said to Nicodemus that we MUST be born again, to see and enter the kingdom of God.  Our fallen nature is hostile to God, hates the light and will not come to it and rejects the things of the Spirit of God.  Upon being born of God, we are given a new heart/spirit that repents and believes in the Lord, unto salvation.

 

Agreed, we were created good but not perfect and that's the part a lot of people miss. Good things can go bad. 

[David1701]

5 minutes ago, Glory To God said:

 

Agreed, we were created good but not perfect and that's the part a lot of people miss. Good things can go bad. 

Yes; Adam was created in the image of God; but not all of that image.  He was not created immutable...

[JTC]

I believe that most of us are born with the potential to be good and bad, but usually the good in us has to be cultivated and brought out somehow. There are exceptions and we call these people psychopaths. Our current understanding of psychopaths is they have a brain defect that prevents them from feeling sympathy and empathy for others. But if a person has a normal brain I think he/she can be good or bad. I've thought about this and observed this all my life and I know I'm more likely to be kind hearted than many other people I've met. But that's what I've always looked for in people, those who are kind hearted. I admit I wasn't always like this, as a small child I remember enjoying killing crabs that I thought would harm me. But by 13 I learned that I shouldn't kill them. Now as an older man I dread the thought of having to kill anything, even bugs.

[Fidei Defensor]

As he exclaims to his God, “no one is free from sin in your sight, not even an infant whose span of earthly life is but a single day” (Book I). ... Thus, Augustine concludes, “The only innocent feature in babies is the weakness of their frames; the minds of infants are far from innocent.” (The Confessions, St. Augustine of Hippo) 

Supported by:

“Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, and in sin did my mother conceive me,” (Psalm 51:5) 

“The wicked are estranged from the womb; they go astray from birth, speaking lies,” (Pslam 58:3) 

 

“What is man, that he can be pure? Or he who is born of a woman, that he can be righteous,” (Job 15:14) 

 

“For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,” (Romans 3:23) 

 

“But God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.” (Romans 5:8) 

Edited July 26, 2020 by Fidei Defensor

[Rosenberg57]

12 hours ago, Glory To God said:

The scripture is not only speaking to the mother but the sin nature of humanity, how it is passed on from generation to generation and how the earthly is in essence unfit for God's kindom. It could be further clarified by this acripture

Job 14:4

Who can bring a clean thing out of an unclean?
No one!

 

 

On the other side of this argument, one would have to make the case for humanity being good. Some have stated we are created in God's image but then the fall happened, so things changed. 

The sins of the father are not passed upon the son. It is in the Bible, a basic Jewish Belief.

 

Eze_18:20  The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

[Sower]

On 7/25/2020 at 1:53 PM, dhchristian said:

Yes we are wretched, But we were also created in the image of God, and when he created us he declared everything was very good.

He drew me up from the pit of destruction, out of the miry bog, and set my feet upon a rock, making my steps secure.

He brought me out into a broad place; he rescued me, because he delighted in me

The good person out of his good treasure brings forth good, and the evil person out of his evil treasure brings forth evil.

A good man obtains favor from the Lord, but a man of evil devices he condemns.

"I will praise thee; for I am fearfully and wonderfully made: marvellous are thy works; and that my soul knoweth right well"

 

[Glory To God]

7 hours ago, Rosenberg57 said:

The sins of the father are not passed upon the son. It is in the Bible, a basic Jewish Belief.

Eze_18:20  The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

 

Well that's probably where the confusion comes from, I follow Christian belief,not Jewish belief.   The Jews who follow Moses or ''the old way'' today are a pretty worthless testimony on how to understand God. They don't even believe in evil forces,Satan or anything beyond the Pentateuch. why would any Christian take council from something so obsolete?

 

As for the scripture you used,it is a parable not legislation (Eze 18:3 As I live, saith the Lord God, ye shall not have occasion any more to use this proverb in Israel. 

 

Adam is the federal headship as the first created male human and as he sinned and was punished by God that impacted his future generations. Adam walked with god and since his punishment of eviction from Eden none of his offspring have returned because of the consequences of this separation from God,caused by their past ancestor Adam, we call this the fall from the Grace of God.

 

Parents actions have consequences for their children. When we look at the actually law given in Deuteronomy 23:2, we can see illegitimate people/children banned from entering into the congregation. Why is that? The children or person didn't decide the actions of the parents and didn't ask to be viewed as an outsider or ''b@stard'' but that is Gods instruction for them to be isolated-because of the parents sin. It gets better though,this (Deuteronomy 23:2) continues for ten generations! not only does the sin actions of mum and dad effect the kids,it also the grandkids,greatgrankids.......

 

Yep,sin of the parents affect the children and Adams sin affects all of us from conception. 

 

 

Edited July 27, 2020 by Glory To God

[JohnD]

Matthew 16:13-23 Jesus' over all point...

humanity = satanic

[johnthebaptist]

On 7/25/2020 at 11:16 AM, Glory To God said:

The Bible says we were created upright by God but seek out corruption (Ecclesiastes 7:29) spiritually dead due to the sin from the fall of Adam and saved by Jesus ( 1 Peter 2:24) by nature we are children of wrath (Ephesians 2:3) and don't seek after Christ or the glory of God (Philippians 2:21).

 

To me it seems like a helpless wretch. Do I have an Amen on that from anyone? 

I hate to blame Adam for our sin. I think we should take responsibility for our own actions.