When is the rapture?

[Moby]

On 9/2/2020 at 8:49 PM, Omegaman 3.0 said:

I have not, but will try to get to it soon, if I can remember to do so.

Please consider this timeline when reading this:

https://sumofthyword.com/2016/10/04/the-rapture-of-the-church-is-after-the-tribulation/

All the scriptures in that link fit nicely into this timeline:

I<---------------Tribulation------------->I<-----------Great Tribulation---------------->I<----------------------1 year of Wrath(365 days)------------------>I

I<---------------1260 days------------->I<----------------1290 days------------------->I<-------------45 days------->I<-----------320 days----------------->I

Covenant      seals 2-4                midst                  seals 5 & 6                 7th seal           Trumps 2-7                         7 bowls                   Jesus

with                 opened            Abomination              opened                      marks            blown during                        poured                  returns

many                                        of Desolation                                                End of          1st~45 days of                    in heaven               to earth

starts                                              set up                                                     7 years          wrath 7th & last                  while church         Rev ch19

Tribulation                                                                                                   1st Trump           trump calls                       at marriage

1st Seal                                                                                                           starts             church home                        supper

opened                                                                                                            wrath

[Diaste]

On 9/4/2020 at 6:28 AM, The Light said:

Do you have any evidence that He cannot return before the man of sin is revealed.

Asking for evidence to prove a negative? Of course He is able. 'Is that His will?' is the better question.

On 9/4/2020 at 6:28 AM, The Light said:

He does say He is coming in an hour that you think not.

And there are many such hours. Why must pretrib demand it must be an hour 'before'? I guess that's an 'hour that you think so' when it must be an hour you think not. Based on this pretrib is incorrect. The doctrine demands a day and hour that comes at a specific time, 'before'. You think so? I think not. 

[Diaste]

On 8/28/2020 at 8:46 PM, Moby said:

What part of "election of grace" and the "ONE" olive tree is so hard to understand???

Because it destroys the tenets of the doctrine. If we are one, Jews and Gentiles in Christ, then no pretrib rapture as there must an elite Christian corp that's better than the rest and raptured, then 'not true Christians and the evil Jews' are thrown into severe persecution. It's all just made up as they go. In the last 40 years the doctrine has been continuously tweaked to overcome objections and is now void of rationality. 

[luigi]

On 9/3/2020 at 5:21 PM, DeighAnn said:

DOESN'T THE PRE TRIB RAP FLAT OUT STATE THAT THE LIVING WILL PRECEED THE DEAD?

I don't know if the pre trib rap states the living will precede the living, but my bible clearly states those killed for the Word will precede the living saints.

[Diaste]

On 9/3/2020 at 6:20 AM, The Light said:

 this just proves that the wrath of God is over when the 7th angel begins to sound.

That is a statement filled with inaccuracy.

THEN THE SEVENTH ANGEL SOUNDED HIS TRUMPET, and loud voices called out in heaven: “The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of His Christ, and He will reign forever and ever.” And the twenty-four elders who sit on their thrones before God fell on their faces and worshiped God, saying: “We give thanks to You, O Lord God Almighty, the One who is and who was, because You have taken Your great power and have begun to reign. The nations were enraged, AND YOUR WRATH HAS COME."

From the Lexicon:

and Your wrathὀργή
(orgē)3709: impulse, wratha prim. word

came,ἦλθεν
(ēlthen)2064: to come, goa prim. verb

The translations say:

New International Version
The nations were angry, and your wrath has come.
New Living Translation
The nations were filled with wrath, but now the time of your wrath has come. 
English Standard Version
The nations raged, but your wrath came, 
Berean Study Bible
The nations were enraged, and Your wrath has come. 
Berean Literal Bible
And the nations were enraged, and Your wrath came, 
New American Standard Bible
"And the nations were enraged, and Your wrath came, 
New King James Version
The nations were angry, and Your wrath has come, 
King James Bible
And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come,
Christian Standard Bible
The nations were angry, but your wrath has come. 
Contemporary English Version
When the nations got angry, you became angry too! 
Good News Translation
The heathen were filled with rage, because the time for your anger has come, 
Holman Christian Standard Bible
The nations were angry, but Your wrath has come.
International Standard Version
The nations were angry, but the time for your wrath has come. 
NET Bible
The nations were enraged, but your wrath has come, 
New Heart English Bible
The nations were angry, and your wrath came, 
Aramaic Bible in Plain English
“And the nations were angry and your anger has come, 
GOD'S WORD® Translation
The nations were angry, but your anger has come. 
New American Standard 1977
“And the nations were enraged, and Thy wrath came, 
King James 2000 Bible
And the nations were angry, and your wrath is come, 
American King James Version
And the nations were angry, and your wrath is come, 
American Standard Version
And the nations were wroth, and thy wrath came, 
Douay-Rheims Bible
And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, 
Darby Bible Translation
And the nations have been full of wrath, and thy wrath is come, 
English Revised Version
And the nations were wroth, and thy wrath came, 
Webster's Bible Translation
And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, 
Weymouth New Testament
The nations grew angry, and Thine anger has come, 
World English Bible
The nations were angry, and your wrath came, 
Young's Literal Translation
and the nations were angry, and Thine anger did come, 

Now where in all this is it over? Nowhere. The verb 'erchomai' is present, either coming or going. It doesn't signify any action is over. It tell us the action has begun, will begin or is current.

Maybe I should ask you if you have any evidence wrath could not be happening here. No doubt you will strenuously object to such reasoning.

It pretty obvious wrath begins both here and at the 6th seal. You poor people that can't see because you refuse to see.

"We are too linear in our thinking, no way can the 6th seal and the 7th trumpet occur together!" Yet this is exactly the case. 

Best tighten your belts. The beast is coming for the church and judgment begins with trumpet sound.

[Moby]

48 minutes ago, Diaste said:

Because it destroys the tenets of the doctrine. If we are one, Jews and Gentiles in Christ, then no pretrib rapture as there must an elite Christian corp that's better than the rest and raptured, then 'not true Christians and the evil Jews' are thrown into severe persecution. It's all just made up as they go. In the last 40 years the doctrine has been continuously tweaked to overcome objections and is now void of rationality. 

Yes I agree bro!

This is what I like so much about Rob's website:

https://sumofthyword.com/

He simply gives you a lot of associated precepts and lets the Holy Spirit teach you the truth if uou are willing to not go beyond what is written as so many denominations have done:

1 Corinthians 4:6  Now these things, brethren, I have in a figure transferred to myself and Apollos for your sakes; that in us ye might learn not to go beyond the things which are written; that no one of you be puffed up for the one against the other.

[Bob Carabbio]

18 hours ago, Moby said:

After reading this link Bob you may not think "eschatology" is just another term for "Rank Speculation":

https://sumofthyword.com/2016/10/04/the-rapture-of-the-church-is-after-the-tribulation/

All the scriptures in that link fit nicely into this timeline:

I<---------------Tribulation------------->I<-----------Great Tribulation---------------->I<----------------------1 year of Wrath(365 days)------------------>I

I<---------------1260 days------------->I<----------------1290 days------------------->I<-------------45 days------->I<-----------320 days----------------->I

Covenant      seals 2-4                midst                  seals 5 & 6                 7th seal           Trumps 2-7                         7 bowls                   Jesus

with                 opened            Abomination              opened                      marks            blown during                        poured                  returns

many                                        of Desolation                                                End of          1st~45 days of                    in heaven               to earth

starts                                              set up                                                     7 years          wrath 7th & last                  while church         Rev ch19

Tribulation                                                                                                   1st Trump           trump calls                       at marriage

1st Seal                                                                                                           starts             church home                        supper

opened                                                                                                            wrath

Seen it all before (I HAVE been in this for almost 60 years, after all) Charts and all.  What you've presented is nothing more than the standard arguments for POST-Trib.

There are corresponding arguments for PRE-Trib, MID-Trib, and A-Trib.  ALl GOd's CHilluns gots "Eschatologies".  

[Marilyn C]

On ‎8‎/‎22‎/‎2020 at 9:07 PM, Moby said:

Good morning Brethren!

Brother "Alive" sent me over here to ask this question I posted in "Worthy Welcome".

I have been looking for a good explanation on the timing of the rapture as there seems to be so much dissension out there among the brethren as to whether it happens before 7 years of tribulation, 3.5 years into the tribulation, or after the tribulation.

 

Hi Moby,

The purpose of the `catching away, ` (rapture) is for the Lord to take His mature Body to its eternal setting in glory. There they will be part of the judgment of the world system and fallen angels. This obviously takes place BEFORE the judgments begin upon the earth. (1 Cor. 6: 2 & 3)

[Moby]

6 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi Moby,

The purpose of the `catching away, ` (rapture) is for the Lord to take His mature Body to its eternal setting in glory. There they will be part of the judgment of the world system and fallen angels. This obviously takes place BEFORE the judgments begin upon the earth. (1 Cor. 6: 2 & 3)

Peter said the church must be judged first and through our suffering commit our souls in well doing:

1 Peter 4:17-19  For the time is come for judgment to begin at the house of God: and if it begin first at us, what shall be the end of them that obey not the gospel of God?  (18)  And if the righteous is scarcely saved, where shall the ungodly and sinner appear?  (19)  Wherefore let them also that suffer according to the will of God commit their souls in well-doing unto a faithful Creator.

Edited September 6, 2020 by Moby

[Marilyn C]

12 hours ago, Moby said:

Peter said the church must be judged first and through our suffering commit our souls in well doing:

1 Peter 4:17-19  For the time is come for judgment to begin at the house of God: and if it begin first at us, what shall be the end of them that obey not the gospel of God?  (18)  And if the righteous is scarcely saved, where shall the ungodly and sinner appear?  (19)  Wherefore let them also that suffer according to the will of God commit their souls in well-doing unto a faithful Creator.

Hi Moby,

Good point. Yes we need to be refined before we can then go on to judge the world system and fallen angels.