The Antichrist's seven year covenant with many

[Revelation Man]

8 hours ago, Spock said:

the first time you laid this on me, it really got my attention. But let me ask you this....when does the 70th week begin?  If he has to do the abomination act in the middle, when is the beginning?  Can you know? 

And by the way, I meant to address this, the Anti-Christ does not do the AoD. The False Prophet does this at the 1290, which is 30 days before the Beast comes to power at the 1260.

[Diaste]

15 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

I am saying Satan is a very intelligent being. Look at the mere TRADE DEAL between China and the USA that took 3 years to complete, these things always take years, Satan has the deals in place, the relationships BUILT UP, where trust will not be as big a problem, he has these nations used to the teat so to speak, they have been on the Money Conditions for a while, they need these monies thus they will bend their will a little when the Anti-Christ places CONDITIONS (affirms the Covenant/Agreement means he STRONG ARMS people, look it up, the Hebrew ward is GABAR........which means to be strong or to impose ones will.

Possibly, but I doubt it. Money will have influence but the scripture says, "unable to buy or sell" this is a restriction on the exchange not the medium. You could have a trillion of some medium but still unable to make any exchange if you don't sport the mark. A lot of people think it's about the money. It's not. It's the restriction of trade, the control of food, and control of people which will decide their fate.

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#1396 גָּבַר gabar {gaw-bar'} a primitive root; TWOT - 310; v

—Hebrew Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)

1) to prevail, have strength, be strong, be powerful, be mighty, be great 1a) (Qal) 1a1) to be strong, mighty 1a2) to prevail

He takes these agreements, then places HIS OWN Conditions on them and strong arms these nations, if you want to Trade with the E.U. you must do this, if you want to travel in the E.U. and have Europeans travel to your nations you must abide by these terms etc. etc.

I hate to get into this because I'm a big proponent of context and concepts for understanding. I don't think it takes deep word studies to find the truth, it takes the power of the Spirit and reliance on His wisdom to guide us to the truth in Christ which is in the written word. A lot more can be said about that but the overall point is the Spirit will guide in all truth and will not contradict His Word. That being said I think sometimes it's a natural thing and it may even be the leading of the Spirit to learn more about the original language.

The problem with your analysis is you're defining the root term and using that definition for your conclusion.  This is the root from Strong's H1396; "גָּבַר" and it's 'gabar' in English, as you said.

What appears in the text is this, "וְהִגְבִּ֥יר" and as you can see there is a suffix. Look at the Lexicon and you get this: 

"And he will make a firm" וְהִגְבִּ֥יר (ve·hig·bir). That's formed from the root which is 1396: to be strong, mighty a prim. root.

Hiph`il Perfect הִגְבִּיר בְּרִית לְ confirm a covenant Daniel 9:27

Directly above is the usage and form and if you pop "הִגְבִּיר בְּרִית לְ" into a Hebrew/English translator you get 'increase alliance'.

You get the idea from this that an alliance is formed which is backed up by great strength. This isn't an extortion racket as you would have people believe.

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Its common sense, the 10 Nations do not mean 10, they mean the fill amount thereof, just like Rev. 2:10 doesn't mean 10 days, just like the 10 Brides mean the full Church. The 10 Nations are a stand in for a Fractured Europe, thus when these fractured nations come together during these end times, NOW.........this leader will Conquer the Mediterranean Sea Region to BEAST over it just like all the other Beast heads did. (Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia, Greece and Rome)

It's common sense that when the source text says 10 it means avocados? But you're wrong. It's a long time obsession with pretrib and most other people that it's Rome, or Europe, or the EEC, or the EU or some other European alphabet soup organization. And it's just nonsense. First the scriptures are Israel-centric when it comes to eschatology. Second the scriptures are Israel-centric when it comes to eschatology. And third...you get the idea.

You and most others are totally wrong about the 10 nations because doctrines remain ignorant of this: "And the ten horns which you saw are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast" - Rev 17

So the 10 nations are not existing political entities. No EEC, no EU. That European thing is just pretrib flailing about in the dark.

And you insist on this "Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia, Greece and Rome" in the style of pretrib when no evidence suggests Egypt, Assyria or Rome has anything to do with the statute in Dan 2. 

The dogma of pretrib doctrine that posits "Nations that dominated Israel while Israel was in their land" is not a criteria for interpretation. It's made up. Only Babylon, Medo-Persia and Greece are identified.

I could say the other 3 nations are Samoa, Chile and Canada and have just as much evidence to back it up as the pretrib idea of Rome, Egypt and Assyria...none.

 

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So, he has to be born in Greece as per Dan. 8:9, he has to come to power our of Europe (10 Kings of the Roman Fourth Beast or a Fractured Europe) and he has to be an Assyrian Turk. So, hes a Turk, born in Greece who MUST come to power in the E.U. Nothing else fits, now put that with the E.U. having 7 year deals in place with all these Nations, and with Dan. 11:40 which shows WHICH Nations will be Conquered, and don't you smell the rat yet? Take away all preconceived notions and just look at the evidence. 

It's possible Greece is the origin of the beast. But from Dan 11 we see the narrative follow the Seleucid line. Imma gonna say... ah no.

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I know I am a know it all...........Because I know it all. Because I am like a dog on a bone, I never relent until God shows me what God desires to show us all. But, its not from me. 

Yeah...I knew another person that claimed all knowledge and perfection in flesh and spirit in the name of Jesus. About 2 years after that claim that person was on drugs, a drunk and went to jail for soliciting and arson. You'll forgive me if I don't regard your claim as valid.

Edited August 27, 2020 by Diaste

[Revelation Man]

49 minutes ago, Diaste said:

Possibly, but I doubt it. Money will have influence but the scripture says, "unable to buy or sell" this is a restriction on the exchange not the medium. You could have a trillion of some medium but still unable to make any exchange if you don't sport the mark. A lot of people think it's about the money. It's not. It's the restriction of trade, the control of food, and control of people which will decide their fate.

 

The Money is being used NOW to get them to do these things, like an Elephant on a chain can become an Elephant bound by a string later, he doesn't know the difference after a while he becomes used to being bound and gives up hope. Also, the deal is not made at the 1260, but 1260 days before the 1260, at the beginning of the 7 years. Yes, after the 1260 in which he conquers these Nations there will be no money, but the time frame we are speaking about is NOW and the first 3.5 years in which the AGREEMENTS are in place. 

54 minutes ago, Diaste said:

The problem with your analysis is you're defining the root term and using that definition for your conclusion.  This is the root from Strong's H1396; "גָּבַר" and it's 'gabar' in English, as you said.

What appears in the text is this, "וְהִגְבִּ֥יר" and as you can see there is a suffix. Look at the Lexicon and you get this: 

"And he will make a firm" וְהִגְבִּ֥יר (ve·hig·bir). That's formed from the root which is 1396: to be strong, mighty a prim. root.

Hiph`il Perfect הִגְבִּיר בְּרִית לְ confirm a covenant Daniel 9:27

Directly above is the usage and form and if you pop "הִגְבִּיר בְּרִית לְ" into a Hebrew/English translator you get 'increase alliance'.

You get the idea from this that an alliance is formed which is backed up by great strength. This isn't an extortion racket as you would have people believe.

I went through this entire verse some years back and looked at every Hebrew word in this verse. What it basically means is the Agreements are in place and this man comes forth and via a STRONG WILL makes a strong covenant with MANY NATIONS that favors him. I the middle of the week he shall........CAUSE....... the Sacrifice to be taken away, and the AoD to be placed. NOTICE, he doesn't take them away, he CAUSES them to be taken away and thus he CAUSES the AoD. Hes in league with the Jewish High Priest, who is the False Prophet. THINK.........Antiochus Epiphanes and Jason the High Priest he appointed who tried to Hellenize the Jews leading to the Maccabean Revolt.........

It has nothing to do with extortion, a teat is like a sugar treat, both leave the child needing to to be weaned off it. 

1 hour ago, Diaste said:

It's common sense that when the source text says 10 it means avocados? But you're wrong. It's a long time obsession with pretrib and most other people that it's Rome, or Europe, or the EEC, or the EU or some other European alphabet soup organization. And it's just nonsense. First the scriptures are Israel-centric when it comes to eschatology. Second the scriptures are Israel-centric when it comes to eschatology. And third...you get the idea.

You and most others are totally wrong about the 10 nations because doctrines remain ignorant of this: "And the ten horns which you saw are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast" - Rev 17

So the 10 nations are not existing political entities. No EEC, no EU. That European thing is just pretrib flailing about in the dark.

And you insist on this "Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia, Greece and Rome" in the style of pretrib when no evidence suggests Egypt, Assyria or Rome has anything to do with the statute in Dan 2. 

The dogma of pretrib doctrine that posits "Nations that dominated Israel while Israel was in their land" is not a criteria for interpretation. It's made up. Only Babylon, Medo-Persia and Greece are identified.

I could say the other 3 nations are Samoa, Chile and Canada and have just as much evidence to back it up as the pretrib idea of Rome, Egypt and Assyria...none.

No, its common sense to understand the way God does things and to allow those ways to guide your understandings, then maybe, JUST MAYBE, one can reason through why God would use the number 10. LETS DO THIS:

Rev. 2:10 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.

So, why would God use TEN DAYS here ? Well, He either had to use TEN DAYS or tell the Church the exact number of Days, so He used 10, the Number is a WELL KNOWN NUMBER used when filling in for an UNKNOWN NUMBER representing the complete number thereof. Just because people can't grasp this, or are unwilling to doesn't change the facts.

God also uses the 10 Brides instead of saying 2 Billion 400, 169 RANDOM NUMBER of Christians and half of them make the Wedding. The number 10 represents ALL Christians, and the half represents true Christians who have the Holy Spirit. 

The Number 10 via the E.U. is a natural to God, there will a continuous change in the numbers of the fractured Kingdoms in Europe down through the ages. So, the number 10 is a STAND IN for all Europe at all times. Sometimes its larger, sometimes smaller, but in God;s eyes, its ALWAYS 10..........It is what it is in other words. When the Moore's were Conquering Europe it was somewhat smaller, now it is as big as its ever been. The 3 can be 1/3, not 3 per se, or it can just mean 3, the number 3 is not used like 10 or 12 for fullness or for completeness so my guess is 3 of the COMPLETE NUMBER try to go back, which would mean at the moment, 3 out of 26 (27 if you count England). 

1 hour ago, Diaste said:

It's common sense that when the source text says 10 it means avocados? But you're wrong. It's a long time obsession with pretrib and most other people that it's Rome, or Europe, or the EEC, or the EU or some other European alphabet soup organization. And it's just nonsense. First the scriptures are Israel-centric when it comes to eschatology. Second the scriptures are Israel-centric when it comes to eschatology. And third...you get the idea.

You and most others are totally wrong about the 10 nations because doctrines remain ignorant of this: "And the ten horns which you saw are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast" - Rev 17

So the 10 nations are not existing political entities. No EEC, no EU. That European thing is just pretrib flailing about in the dark.

And you insist on this "Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia, Greece and Rome" in the style of pretrib when no evidence suggests Egypt, Assyria or Rome has anything to do with the statute in Dan 2. 

The dogma of pretrib doctrine that posits "Nations that dominated Israel while Israel was in their land" is not a criteria for interpretation. It's made up. Only Babylon, Medo-Persia and Greece are identified.

I could say the other 3 nations are Samoa, Chile and Canada and have just as much evidence to back it up as the pretrib idea of Rome, Egypt and Assyria...none.

You truly do not get the scriptures on this brother. There can be no other option, PERIOD. Let go of preconceived notions.

1 hour ago, Diaste said:

Yeah...I knew another person that claimed all knowledge and perfection in flesh and spirit in the name of Jesus. About 2 years after that claim that person was on drugs, a drunk and went to jail for soliciting and arson. You'll forgive me if I don't regard your claim as valid.

1.) I am being facetious on purpose to let you know I know what you are thinking. I will not apologize for knowledge and revelation God has given me for being dogged. Jacob wrestled with God.

2.) Other people do not concern me, that is their problem and yours, not mine. 

[Spock]

10 hours ago, R. Hartono said:

Agree, ac shall conquer the world with peace by the 1st seal opening which began the 7 years of GT but in the middle of 7 years he will open his mask n demand worship as God.

I agree...Rev 13 shows THE BEAST, and he becomes the BEAST at the abomination of desolation, I believe after the assassination attempt. 

[iamlamad]

19 hours ago, Spock said:

Greetings iamlad,

Always a pleasure to converse with you.  I hope you are right but I don’t have the confidence you have regarding the rapture being before Daniels 70th week begins.  As you know, many people believe 1/2 of the week has already been played out leaving only 1/2 of the week (3.5 years) remaining.  If this were true then yeah, I would agree with you, rapture before final 3.5 years. 
 

now, you and I have discussed this issue....can the church be in a part of the 70th week, even though the 70 weeks are determined for Israel, I am not convinced this precludes the church from being totally excluded from the 80th week.  Maybe you are right....I hope you are right.....but I’m just not there.  
 

so, at this point, the only thing I can agree with is this....the church will not be here to experience God’s wrath (trumpets and bowls). So when do they get released?  If they get released early in the week, great. But, it Could also be late in the first 1260 days....not sure. 

Beside the fact that Jesus spoke and I learned that the 70th week is marked by 7's: consider that 5 different times in three different ways God shows us the last half of the week starting around chapters 11-13 and going to the 7th vial.  If this is so, and it is so, what then is John showing us from chapter 8 to chapter 11? They are the trumpets. Are they events that happen outside of a special time like the 70th week - or do they fill up the first half of the week? 

I know the midpoint of the week is the 7th trumpet. So it just makes good sense the first 6 trumpets are in the first half of the week. Keep in mind, God is not trying to confuse us but to reveal to us. 

All through the OT there is ONE VERSE about the 70th week. But there are many verses about "the Day of the Lord." Is it logical then that THE DAY (not 24 hours) would take priority over the week? 

As John wrote, I see the 70th week being inside the Day of the Lord: the DAY starting first and ending last. 

Does it make sense to you that God's plan was the first half of the week back in the days of Jesus, and the last half future - but there is no real scripture in the gospels proving 1260 days, or 42 months, or even 3.5 years? It is guess work to imagine it. That is one big reason why I don't buy the first half in Jesus' days. 

[iamlamad]

8 hours ago, Diaste said:

I could say the other 3 nations are Samoa, Chile and Canada and have just as much evidence to back it up as the pretrib idea of Rome, Egypt and Assyria...none.

Good answer here! It gave me a laugh!

It is interesting that the image of Neb' started with Babylon, but then, that is where in the timeline he lived. 
I think all "tribs:" pre, mid, post. etc, believe we are in the time of the toes. Interesting: two feet add up to ten toes. 

[iamlamad]

16 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

And by the way, I meant to address this, the Anti-Christ does not do the AoD. The False Prophet does this at the 1290, which is 30 days before the Beast comes to power at the 1260.

I suspect this is just more myth. Paul tells us it is the MAN OF SIN that enters the temple. Are you declaring that the man of sin turns into the FP and not the Beast? 

Next, you are applying the 1290 BACKWARDS. All examples of the numbers for the last half START at the midpoint and go to the end - yet in your wisdom you start at the end and back up. Amazing.

[iamlamad]

17 hours ago, R. Hartono said:

Agree, ac shall conquer the world with peace by the 1st seal opening which began the 7 years of GT but in the middle of 7 years he will open his mask n demand worship as God.

Why do you imagine "first seal" (chapter 6) when John sees the Beast (AC) rising in chapter 13? Do you think John was that far off in Chronology? 

The truth is, the seals (1-5) are CHURCH AGE. People always "jump the gun" and want to start the week when God is back at the start of the church age. 

[iamlamad]

20 hours ago, Dennis1209 said:

This sure has been floating under everyone's radar with little to no major news media reporting. We know government(s) give disinformation and cover things up not to cause a panic. They played down the potential solar CME event that just missed the earth by two weeks. 

Luke 21:26 (KJV) Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.

I think it's possible this asteroid could be Wormwood? As the time draws nearer we shall see? Among other things, could this asteroid coming cause what's stated in the above verse?

Did you know that "Chernobyl" translated to English is "wormwood?  I don't think it is a asteroid. 

[Dennis1209]

2 hours ago, iamlamad said:

Did you know that "Chernobyl" translated to English is "wormwood?  I don't think it is a asteroid. 

I can't say with certainty it is either, just speculation. In this day and age we have a better understanding and the technology to speculate on the things that would cause these effects in the Bible. The book of Revelation largely centers around the reveling of Jesus Christ, the Jew's, Israel and the surrounding areas. The "sea" almost always refers to the Mediterranean Sea, and it appears these things maybe localized to that geographical area? The following is just some of my thoughts?

Revelation 8:8 (KJV) And the second angel sounded, and as it were a great mountain burning with fire was cast into the sea: and the third part of the sea became blood; 9. And the third part of the creatures which were in the sea, and had life, died; and the third part of the ships were destroyed. [emphasis added]

This doesn't say whatever this is, is coming from heaven above. The comparison is "a great mountain", so whatever it is it's huge. A volcano thrusting up in the Mediterranean Sea with lava, poisonous gas, toxic chemicals and the accompanying tsunami would also fit this description.

Revelation 8:10 (KJV) And the third angel sounded, and there fell a great star from heaven, burning as it were a lamp, and it fell upon the third part of the rivers, and upon the fountains of waters; 11. And the name of the star is called Wormwood: and the third part of the waters became wormwood; and many men died of the waters, because they were made bitter. [emphasis added]

Because two angels are mentioned, I suspect these are two separate distinct events? In the verse above, I get more of an impression of a meteor or asteroid entering the atmosphere [from heaven / above]. This great star from heaven is singular and big, and a nuclear missile entering our atmosphere would not be hardly noticeable. Wormwood is mentioned 8 times in the Bible, it's associated with the plant and/or bitterness. The Lord has named every celestial body in the universe, and astronomers name each star, planet, asteroid and meteor discovered. I'm thinking this is a celestial body and God gives us what he named it from creation? I can't see a single nuclear missile strike contaminating 1/3 of the entire regions rivers, aquifers, lakes and fountains of water via radiation. 

As I mentioned, this generation has a much better understanding of how these things could occur. Just two generations ago, Christian's didn't have a clue as to how the entire globe would witness in real time the two witnesses, their resurrection and ascension, etc. I could very well be wrong with the ways and means all this is going to occur but, I know it's coming in the not to distant future.