What is a "soul?"

[Waggles]

7 hours ago, Desopixi Seilynam said:

1 Kings 17:17-22
"..O Lord my God, I pray thee, let this child's soul come into him again"
"and the Lord heard the voice of Elijah, and the soul of the child
came into him again"

Now this seems to run counter to what @Retrobyter has been arguing for -- that our soul is just a living body, and not an entity itself living after the death of body.

Actually the more I read scriptures on this soul and body topic the more perplexed I have become for the scriptures seem to preach of the salvation of both souls and our bodies (let alone what goes down to Sheol). 

Rom 8:23  And not only so, but ourselves also, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, WE ourselves also groan within ourselves, awaiting our adoption, the redemption of our body.

Hebrews 10:39  But we are not of them that shrink back unto destruction; but of those having faith unto saving of the soul.

Our souls are saved. Our bodies are saved. Which is it? Maybe they are the same. So how does God save our bodies if we are cremated and our ashes are strewn over a garden? There must be a spiritual ID as to everybody who has ever lived. 

[warrior12]

13 hours ago, Desopixi Seilynam said:

There is a spiritual realm that is not normally physically seen.

Perhaps it is some sort of particles of light science has yet to detect,
or that science denies. Perhaps somewhere among the aether that was studied by people such as Nicola Tesla but dismissed by Einstein. 

The spiritual realm cannot be seen, hence the word "spiritual".  I can testify that is does as I have been in many "spiritual warfare" encounters that can be felt, but not seen, maybe others have seen things, but I have not. I have felt things and bodily afflicted too.

The bible says the carnal man cannot understand spiritual things, as they are foolishness to him.

Again, the verse below says the "natural man", so if the natural man receiveth not, then who will receive, it is the "Spiritual man".  The OP here is playing with word translation to manipulate his persuasion to fit the narrative he is creating or carving. 

"Spiritually discerned" I would think, means the believer who has the new nature , that is born again.

1 Corinthians 2 King James Version (KJV)

¹⁴ But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

 

[Retrobyter]

On 4/21/2021 at 8:58 PM, DeighAnn said:

Genesis 9:4 “But you shall not eat flesh [of beasts] with its soul [Hebrew, nephesh], that is, its blood.

So, is the soul in the AIR or in the BLOOD? 


Or is a soul the entire 'creature' and not just ONE part of the entire being as being proposed in this thread?

Shalom, DeighAnn.

No, the "soul" is that which BREATHES AIR! On the macro level, that's the entire creature, the "body" if you will. On the micro level, each cell of that body is supplied with the oxygen from the air that the entire creature breathes. The blood, particularly the red corpuscles of the blood, supply that oxygen to each cell. That includes everything from the cells that make up your skin (inner layers) to the cells that make up your bones! It includes the cells that make up the lungs, the cells that make up the muscles including the heart, the cells that make up the veins and arteries that carry the blood throughout the body, the cells that make up the digestive system, the cells that make up your liver, the cells that make up your kidneys, the cells that make up your pancreas, the cells that make up your nervous system, the cells that even make up your brain! EVERY CELL in your body needs oxygen to survive! And EVERY CELL gets that oxygen from the air we breathe THROUGH the blood!

[Retrobyter]

On 4/21/2021 at 12:43 AM, DeighAnn said:

That's fiction too?  That's true.  There is no scripture for that either. I didn't think what is written was being applied to everything in this conversation.  Is it? 

I am not 'desperately' trying to 'doing anything'.   I don't know where that came from.  I am quite calm and at peace.  


Matthew 6:9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.

Matthew 6:10 Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.

THERE is a whole kingdom in heaven complete with God, thrones, living creatures, altars, rivers, saints, sinners, anti christs, adversaries the list goes on.  

 

Isaiah 6:1 In the year that king Uzziah died I saw also the LORD sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up, and his train filled the temple.

Isaiah 6:2 Above it stood the seraphims: each one had six wings; with twain he covered his face, and with twain he covered his feet, and with twain he did fly.

Isaiah 6:3 And one cried unto another, and said, Holy, holy, holy, is the LORD of hosts: the whole earth is full of his glory.

Isaiah 6:4 And the posts of the door moved at the voice of him that cried, and the house was filled with smoke.

Isaiah 6:5 Then said I, Woe is me! for I am undone; because I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips: for mine eyes have seen the King, the LORD of hosts.

Isaiah 6:6 Then flew one of the seraphims unto me, having a live coal in his hand, which he had taken with the tongs from off the altar:

Isaiah 6:7 And he laid it upon my mouth, and said, Lo, this hath touched thy lips; and thine iniquity is taken away, and thy sin purged.

Maybe I am misunderstanding 'No heaven'.  

Deuteronomy 4:36 Out of heaven he made thee to hear his voice, that he might instruct thee: and upon earth he shewed thee his great fire; and thou heardest his words out of the midst of the fire.

Deuteronomy 4:37 And because he loved thy fathers, therefore he chose their seed after them, and brought thee out in his sight with his mighty power out of Egypt;

Deuteronomy 4:38 To drive out nations from before thee greater and mightier than thou art, to bring thee in, to give thee their land for an inheritance, as it is this day.

Deuteronomy 4:39 Know therefore this day, and consider it in thine heart, that the LORD he is God in heaven above, and upon the earth beneath: there is none else.

Deuteronomy 4:40 Thou shalt keep therefore his statutes, and his commandments, which I command thee this day, that it may go well with thee, and with thy children after thee, and that thou mayest prolong thy days upon the earth, which the LORD thy God giveth thee, for ever.

 

Matthew 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

Matthew 16:19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

 

Luke 23:42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.

Luke 23:43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.


And they are 'ages' not levels, IMHO.  

 

Shalom, DeighAnn.

Sorry. This post deserves an answer, too, particularly because it is probably on the minds of others reading along. No time this morning, but I'll get to it tonight.

Almost missed it in all the posts!

[Waggles]

1 Kings 17:21
(DRB)  And he stretched, and measured himself upon the child three times, and cried to the Lord, and said: O Lord, my God, let the soul of this child, I beseech thee, return into his body.
(ESV)  Then he stretched himself upon the child three times and cried to the LORD, “O LORD my God, let this child's life come into him again.”
(JPS)  And he stretched himself upon the child three times, and cried unto the LORD, and said: 'O LORD my God, I pray thee, let this child's soul come back into him.'
(KJV)  And he stretched himself upon the child three times, and cried unto the LORD, and said, O LORD my God, I pray thee, let this child's soul come into him again.

soul H5315 נֶפֶשׁ  nephesh
From H5314; properly a breathing creature, that is, animal or (abstractly) vitality; 

(LEB)  He stretched himself out on the child three times and called to Yahweh and said, "O Yahweh my God, please let the life of this child return within him."
(LITV)  And he stretched himself on the child three times, and called to Jehovah and said, O Jehovah my God, I pray, let the soul of this boy return to him.

[DeighAnn]

14 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, DeighAnn.

No, the "soul" is that which BREATHES AIR! On the macro level, that's the entire creature, the "body" if you will. On the micro level, each cell of that body is supplied with the oxygen from the air that the entire creature breathes. The blood, particularly the red corpuscles of the blood, supply that oxygen to each cell. That includes everything from the cells that make up your skin (inner layers) to the cells that make up your bones! It includes the cells that make up the lungs, the cells that make up the muscles including the heart, the cells that make up the veins and arteries that carry the blood throughout the body, the cells that make up the digestive system, the cells that make up your liver, the cells that make up your kidneys, the cells that make up your pancreas, the cells that make up your nervous system, the cells that even make up your brain! EVERY CELL in your body needs oxygen to survive! And EVERY CELL gets that oxygen from the air we breathe THROUGH the blood!

It's when I read things like this that I know that 'air breathing' is only a part of a whole.  

Psalm 42:1 As the hart panteth after the water brooks, so panteth my soul after thee, O God.

Psalm 42:2 My soul thirsteth for God, for the living God: when shall I come and appear before God?

Psalm 42:3 My tears have been my meat day and night, while they continually say unto me, Where is thy God?

Psalm 42:4 When I remember these things, I pour out my soul in me: for I had gone with the multitude, I went with them to the house of God, with the voice of joy and praise, with a multitude that kept holyday.

Psalm 42:5 Why art thou cast down, O my soul? and why art thou disquieted in me? hope thou in God: for I shall yet praise him for the help of his countenance.

Psalm 42:6 O my God, my soul is cast down within me: therefore will I remember thee from the land of Jordan, and of the Hermonites, from the hill Mizar.

Psalm 42:7 Deep calleth unto deep at the noise of thy waterspouts: all thy waves and thy billows are gone over me.

Psalm 42:8 Yet the LORD will command his lovingkindness in the day time, and in the night his song shall be with me, and my prayer unto the God of my life.

Psalm 42:9 I will say unto God my rock, Why hast thou forgotten me? why go I mourning because of the oppression of the enemy?

Psalm 42:10 As with a sword in my bones, mine enemies reproach me; while they say daily unto me, Where is thy God?

Psalm 42:11 Why art thou cast down, O my soul? and why art thou disquieted within me? hope thou in God: for I shall yet praise him, who is the health of my countenance, and my God.

So, again we just understand it different and pretty sure it has to do with something else we believe that is different, which would make something else....different... but our knowledge of salvation through Our Lord and Savior is the same.  

[Retrobyter]

22 hours ago, Waggles said:

If people's corpses are cremated or they are dissipated by natural means or the Mafia then what is raised up on the last day?? Atoms? 

Shalom, Waggles.

LOL! God can bring anyone back from the dead any way He chooses! That's HIS business, after all! Who else can perform acts of CREATION? It's possible that He will use dust from the ground as He did with Adam, but WHO KNOWS BUT GOD?!

Quote

1Samuel 28:7  So Saul said to his servants, "Search for me a woman who is a medium so that I may go to her and inquire of her." His servants said to him, "Look there is a woman who is a medium in Endor." 
28:8  So Saul disguised himself and put on other clothes, and he went with two of his men. And they came to the woman by night and he said, "Please consult a spirit for me through the ritual pit, and bring up for me the one whom I tell you." 
28:9  But the woman said to him, "Look, you know what Saul did, how he exterminated the mediums and the soothsayers from the land! Why are you setting a trap for my life to kill me?" 
28:10  Then Saul swore to her by Yahweh, "As Yahweh lives, you will not be punished for this thing." 
28:11  So the woman asked, "Whom shall I bring up for you?" He said, "Bring up Samuel for me." 
28:12  When the woman saw Samuel, she cried out with a loud voice, and the woman said to Saul, "Why did you deceive me? You are Saul!" 
28:13  The king said to her, "Do not be afraid! What do you see?" And the woman said to Saul, "I see a god coming up from the ground!"
28:14  Then he said to her, "What is his appearance?" She said, "An old man is coming up, and he is wrapped in a robe." Then Saul realized that it was Samuel, and he knelt with his face to the ground and bowed down. 
28:15  Then Samuel said to Saul, "Why have you disturbed me by bringing me up?" And Saul said, "I am in distress! For the Philistines are about to make war against me, but God has turned away from me, and he does not answer me any more, not by the prophets or by the dreams. So I called to you to let me know what I should do." 
28:16  Then Samuel said, "Why do you ask me, since Yahweh has turned away from you and has become your enemy? 

Scripture does teach us that it is our spirits that go down to Sheol to sleep and for some to wait for that last trumpet call and the shout of the archangel. 

Two things come to mind:

First, Scripture teaches us that our "spirit" - our "breath" - goes back to God who is Ruwach - the WIND!

Second, DON'T make too much out of the story of the MEDIUM! There's a REASON why God didn't want the children of Israel to associate with them! They LIE and they DO associate with "demons!" "Lesser gods!"

When I was first being introduced to how networked computers are sorted out to know which files to print when, there's a control program that governs the process called a "print daemon." It assigns each print job a value and then prints jobs in the order of those values. That's the definition of a "daemon":

Quote

dae·mon1 | ˈdēmən | (also daimon) noun1 (in ancient Greek belief) a divinity or supernatural being of a nature between gods and humans. • an inner or attendant spirit or inspiring force: Socrates claimed to have lived his life according to the dictates of his daimon. 2 archaic spelling of demon1.DERIVATIVES daemonic | dəˈmänik | (also daimonic) adjective ORIGIN mid 16th century: common spelling of demon1 until the 19th century.

dae·mon2 | ˈdēmən | (also demon) noun Computing a background process that handles requests for services such as print spooling and file transfers, and is dormant when not required. ORIGIN 1970s: perhaps from d(isk) a(nd) e(xecution) mon(itor) or from de(vice) mon(itor), or a transferred use of demon1.

I also find it interesting that Socrates KNEW that he was influenced by his "attendant spirit," his "demon!" So, why would anyone, claiming to be a Christian, listen to Socrates? OR his student, Plato? For all his logic, he still was a classical GREEK, after all, and believed in Hades, the god of the Underworld, the Underworld also called by the same name, and also believed in going to the Elysian Fields (comparable to "Heaven") after a person died? That's why I SO appreciate Appendix A in Randy Alcorn's book Heaven, entitled...

Quote

 

Appendix A: Christoplatonism’s False Assumptions

Alcorn, Randy. Heaven (Alcorn, Randy) (p. 459). Tyndale House Publishers. Kindle Edition. 

 

I may not agree with everything that Mr. Alcorn believes, but I think he was SPOT ON in this appendix! One of the things he said was...

Quote

Plato was “the first Western philosopher to claim that reality is fundamentally something ideal or abstract.”360 To think of the spiritual realm in physical terms or to envision God’s presence in the physical world was to do it a disservice. Plato considered the body a liability, not an asset. “For Plato . . . the body is a hindrance, as it opposes and even imprisons the soul (Phaedo 65–68; 91–94).”361

But according to Scripture, our bodies aren’t just shells for our spirits to inhabit; they’re a good and essential aspect of our being. Likewise, the earth is not a second-rate location from which we must be delivered. Rather, it was handmade by God for us. Earth, not some incorporeal state, is God’s choice as mankind’s original and ultimate dwelling place.

Alcorn, Randy. Heaven (Alcorn, Randy) (p. 459). Tyndale House Publishers. Kindle Edition. 

I encourage everyone who calls himself or herself a "Christian" to purchase his book Heaven, if for no other reason than to read that appendix! That may sound like a "shameless plug," but I really don't know the man ... yet, and I'm not getting any "kick-backs" by saying so. I just find what he said so very important!

For some reason, Christians have bought into this philosophy that "physical = bad; spiritual = good," which Mr. Alcorn calls "Christoplatonism."

Back to the point, mediums LIE and associate with "demons!" If you pay attention to the account, the medium - called a "witch of Endor"  - was taken aback when she saw "Sh'mu'el" ("Samuel") actually come up! I don't believe she had ever witnessed such a thing before! She was probably a fraud, as many mediums are! She figured out right quick that she was talking to Sha'uwl ("Saul")! This "Sh'mu'el" was her "familiar spirit" taking the shape of the man! It was NOT actually "Sh'mu'el." Notice that most demons just tell what they want to say without actually giving the person any true information. What did he say?

28:15  Then Samuel said to Saul,

"Why have you disturbed me by bringing me up?"

And Saul said,

"I am in distress! For the Philistines are about to make war against me, but God has turned away from me, and he does not answer me any more, not by the prophets or by the dreams. So I called to you to let me know what I should do." 

28:16  Then Samuel said,

"Why do you ask me, since Yahweh has turned away from you and has become your enemy?"

Let's read on:

1 Samuel 28:17-19 (KJV)

17 "And the LORD hath done to him, as he spake by me: for the LORD hath rent the kingdom out of thine hand, and given it to thy neighbour, even to David: 18 Because thou obeyedst not the voice of the LORD, nor executedst his fierce wrath upon Amalek, therefore hath the LORD done this thing unto thee this day. 19 Moreover the LORD will also deliver Israel with thee into the hand of the Philistines: and to morrow shalt thou and thy sons be with me: the LORD also shall deliver the host of Israel into the hand of the Philistines!"

I don't believe this was really Sh'mu'el at all! He was saying the worst thing he could think of to further frighten Sha'uwl. He was able to figure out what was going to happen next! See, the thing one can't tell from a medium is when it is actually God's message through his "prophet," or if it's just a demon saying the worst thing possible, even if it was a lie, to generate fear and gleefully enjoying the exchange!

When Sha'uwl asked for a description of who she saw, "he KNEW it was Sh'mu'el," he ASSUMED it was Sh'mu'el she was describing, but he had no confirmation from God, from "Sh'mu'el," or from ANYONE ELSE that it was indeed him!

This is why we don't go to see mediums or witches or prognosticators or whatever! They're just as apt to LIE to you to watch you squirm as to stumble accidentally on the truth! They don't care as long as what they say brings you PAIN AND FEAR!

[Charlie744]

3 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, Waggles.

LOL! God can bring anyone back from the dead any way He chooses! That's HIS business, after all! Who else can perform acts of CREATION? It's possible that He will use dust from the ground as He did with Adam, but WHO KNOWS BUT GOD?!

Two things come to mind:

First, Scripture teaches us that our "spirit" - our "breath" - goes back to God who is Ruwach - the WIND!

Second, DON'T make too much out of the story of the MEDIUM! There's a REASON why God didn't want the children of Israel to associate with them! They LIE and they DO associate with "demons!" "Lesser gods!"

When I was first being introduced to how networked computers are sorted out to know which files to print when, there's a control program that governs the process called a "print daemon." It assigns each print job a value and then prints jobs in the order of those values. That's the definition of a "daemon":

I also find it interesting that Socrates KNEW that he was influenced by his "attendant spirit," his "demon!" So, why would anyone, claiming to be a Christian, listen to Socrates? OR his student, Plato? For all his logic, he still was a classical GREEK, after all, and believed in Hades, the god of the Underworld, the Underworld also called by the same name, and also believed in going to the Elysian Fields (comparable to "Heaven") after a person died? That's why I SO appreciate Appendix A in Randy Alcorn's book Heaven, entitled...

I may not agree with everything that Mr. Alcorn believes, but I think he was SPOT ON in this appendix! One of the things he said was...

I encourage everyone who calls himself or herself a "Christian" to purchase his book Heaven, if for no other reason than to read that appendix! That may sound like a "shameless plug," but I really don't know the man ... yet, and I'm not getting any "kick-backs" by saying so. I just find what he said so very important!

For some reason, Christians have bought into this philosophy that "physical = bad; spiritual = good," which Mr. Alcorn calls "Christoplatonism."

Back to the point, mediums LIE and associate with "demons!" If you pay attention to the account, the medium - called a "witch of Endor"  - was taken aback when she saw "Sh'mu'el" ("Samuel") actually come up! I don't believe she had ever witnessed such a thing before! She was probably a fraud, as many mediums are! She figured out right quick that she was talking to Sha'uwl ("Saul")! This "Sh'mu'el" was her "familiar spirit" taking the shape of the man! It was NOT actually "Sh'mu'el." Notice that most demons just tell what they want to say without actually giving the person any true information. What did he say?

28:15  Then Samuel said to Saul,

"Why have you disturbed me by bringing me up?"

And Saul said,

"I am in distress! For the Philistines are about to make war against me, but God has turned away from me, and he does not answer me any more, not by the prophets or by the dreams. So I called to you to let me know what I should do." 

28:16  Then Samuel said,

"Why do you ask me, since Yahweh has turned away from you and has become your enemy?"

Let's read on:

1 Samuel 28:17-19 (KJV)

17 "And the LORD hath done to him, as he spake by me: for the LORD hath rent the kingdom out of thine hand, and given it to thy neighbour, even to David: 18 Because thou obeyedst not the voice of the LORD, nor executedst his fierce wrath upon Amalek, therefore hath the LORD done this thing unto thee this day. 19 Moreover the LORD will also deliver Israel with thee into the hand of the Philistines: and to morrow shalt thou and thy sons be with me: the LORD also shall deliver the host of Israel into the hand of the Philistines!"

I don't believe this was really Sh'mu'el at all! He was saying the worst thing he could think of to further frighten Sha'uwl. He was able to figure out what was going to happen next! See, the thing one can't tell from a medium is when it is actually God's message through his "prophet," or if it's just a demon saying the worst thing possible, even if it was a lie, to generate fear and gleefully enjoying the exchange!

When Sha'uwl asked for a description of who she saw, "he KNEW it was Sh'mu'el," he ASSUMED it was Sh'mu'el she was describing, but he had no confirmation from God, from "Sh'mu'el," or from ANYONE ELSE that it was indeed him!

This is why we don't go to see mediums or witches or prognosticators or whatever! They're just as apt to LIE to you to watch you squirm as to stumble accidentally on the truth! They don't care as long as what they say brings you PAIN AND FEAR!

Very nice Roy! I certainly agree here:

1) God refused to speak any further with Saul while he was still living and now HE is going to speak to him after death? 

2) God prohibits the Israelites to concern themselves with mediums and then HE is going to agree or allow them to speak to Saul?

3) God tells us the dead know nothing but now Samuel to “come up” to speak to Saul?

4) Samuel would be “coming up” v. “coming down?

5) Saul never saw Samuel ... 

These and the substantial comments from Roy should remove this event from this particular discussion... For me, this is a great understanding of how WE are responsible for allowing satan to “deceive” us... It is almost like Saul wanted something so much he saw (or Saul) what he wanted see! 

Just my thoughts, Charlie 

[Retrobyter]

On 4/21/2021 at 12:43 AM, DeighAnn said:

That's fiction too?  That's true.  There is no scripture for that either. I didn't think what is written was being applied to everything in this conversation.  Is it? 

Shalom, DeighAnn.

OF COURSE, it is! How else do we know what is truth without getting it straight from God's Word?

To my statement, "You're trying desperately to keep the old "soul-in-a-body" routine," you said,

On 4/21/2021 at 12:43 AM, DeighAnn said:

I am not 'desperately' trying to 'doing anything'.   I don't know where that came from.  I am quite calm and at peace.  

Okay, so maybe "desperately" is the wrong word. Perhaps, it should have been "stubbornly?" or rather, "determinedly?" In any case, I'm detecting that you are unwilling to see from my perspective that the living, breathing body IS the "soul."

On 4/21/2021 at 12:43 AM, DeighAnn said:

Matthew 6:9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.

Matthew 6:10 Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.

THERE is a whole kingdom in heaven complete with God, thrones, living creatures, altars, rivers, saints, sinners, anti christs, adversaries the list goes on.  

Well, first of all, the words "Thy kingdom come" need to be seen as "LET thy kingdom come," NOT "Thy kingdom IS come," just as "Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven" needs to be seen as "LET thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven."

The Kingdom has not come, yet. Yeshua` will return and when He does, He will bring the Kingdom with Him. Why? Because HE is the King! Do you understand the significance of Him being called "the King of the Jews?" And, about how that relates to Him being called the "Christ," or the "Messiah," and the "Son of David?"

Matthew 2:1-2 (KJV)

1 Now when Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judaea in the days of Herod the king, behold, there came wise men from the east to Jerusalem, 2 Saying, "WHERE IS HE THAT IS BORN KING OF THE JEWS? for we have seen his star in the east, and are come to worship (bend the knee to) him."

Matthew 27:27-37 (KJV)

27 Then the soldiers of the governor took Jesus into the common hall, and gathered unto him the whole band of soldiers. 28 And they stripped him, and put on him a scarlet robe. 29 And when they had platted a crown of thorns, they put it upon his head, and a reed in his right hand: and they bowed the knee before him, and mocked him, saying, "HAIL, KING OF THE JEWS!" 30 And they spit upon him, and took the reed, and smote him on the head. 31 And after that they had mocked him, they took the robe off from him, and put his own raiment on him, and led him away to crucify him.

32 And as they came out, they found a man of Cyrene, Simon by name: him they compelled to bear his cross.

33 And when they were come unto a place called Golgotha, that is to say, a place of a skull, 34 They gave him vinegar to drink mingled with gall: and when he had tasted thereof, he would not drink.

35 And they crucified him, and parted his garments, casting lots: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, They parted my garments among them, and upon my vesture did they cast lots. 36 And sitting down they watched him there; 37 And set up over his head his accusation written, THIS IS JESUS THE KING OF THE JEWS.

He was called "King of the Jews" at both His birth and His death! He was called the "Son of David," and that's significant, too! Look at the lineage in Matthew 1:

Matthew 1: (KJV)

1 The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, THE SON OF DAVID, the son of Abraham.

2 Abraham begat Isaac;
and Isaac begat Jacob;
and Jacob begat Judas and his brethren; 
3 And Judas begat Phares and Zara of Thamar;
and Phares begat Esrom;
and Esrom begat Aram; 
4 And Aram begat Aminadab;
and Aminadab begat Naasson;
and Naasson begat Salmon; 
5 And Salmon begat Booz of Rachab;
and Booz begat Obed of Ruth;
and Obed begat Jesse; 
6 And Jesse begat DAVID THE KING;
and DAVID THE KING begat (King) Solomon of her that had been the wife of Urias;
7And (King) Solomon begat (King) Roboam;
and (King) Roboam begat (King) Abia;
and (King) Abia begat (King) Asa; 
8 And (King) Asa begat (King) Josaphat;
and (King) Josaphat begat (King) Joram;
and (King) Joram begat (King) Ozias; 
9 And (King) Ozias begat (King) Joatham;
and (King) Joatham begat (King) Achaz;
and (King) Achaz begat (King) Ezekias; 
10 And (King) Ezekias begat (King) Manasses;
and (King) Manasses begat (King) Amon;
and (King) Amon begat (King) Josias; 
11 And (King) Josias begat (King) Jechonias and his brethren, about the time they were carried away to Babylon:

12 And after they were brought to Babylon, (ex-King) Jechonias begat Salathiel;
and Salathiel begat (Governor) Zorobabel; 
13 And (Governor) Zorobabel begat Abiud;
and Abiud begat Eliakim;
and Eliakim begat Azor; 
14 And Azor begat Sadoc;
and Sadoc begat Achim;
and Achim begat Eliud; 
15 And Eliud begat Eleazar;
and Eleazar begat Matthan;
and Matthan begat Jacob; 
16 And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary,
of whom was born Jesus, who is called CHRIST (ANOINTED [to be King]).

 

On 4/21/2021 at 12:43 AM, DeighAnn said:

Isaiah 6:1 In the year that king Uzziah died I saw also the LORD sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up, and his train filled the temple.

Isaiah 6:2 Above it stood the seraphims: each one had six wings; with twain he covered his face, and with twain he covered his feet, and with twain he did fly.

Isaiah 6:3 And one cried unto another, and said, Holy, holy, holy, is the LORD of hosts: the whole earth is full of his glory.

Isaiah 6:4 And the posts of the door moved at the voice of him that cried, and the house was filled with smoke.

Isaiah 6:5 Then said I, Woe is me! for I am undone; because I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips: for mine eyes have seen the King, the LORD of hosts.

Isaiah 6:6 Then flew one of the seraphims unto me, having a live coal in his hand, which he had taken with the tongs from off the altar:

Isaiah 6:7 And he laid it upon my mouth, and said, Lo, this hath touched thy lips; and thine iniquity is taken away, and thy sin purged.

Maybe I am misunderstanding 'No heaven'.  

There are qualifiers, to be sure. While I'm saying there's "no Heaven," I'm also agreeing that there SHALL be "streets of gold" and "gates of pearl." There SHALL be a "throne, high and lifted up." There SHALL be a "Temple" which His train will fill. There SHALL be "six-winged s'raafiym," snake-shaped, burning, holy ones with hands and feet. However, these things will be ON EARTH and in the New Jerusalem!

On 4/21/2021 at 12:43 AM, DeighAnn said:

Deuteronomy 4:36 Out of heaven he made thee to hear his voice, that he might instruct thee: and upon earth he shewed thee his great fire; and thou heardest his words out of the midst of the fire.

Deuteronomy 4:37 And because he loved thy fathers, therefore he chose their seed after them, and brought thee out in his sight with his mighty power out of Egypt;

Deuteronomy 4:38 To drive out nations from before thee greater and mightier than thou art, to bring thee in, to give thee their land for an inheritance, as it is this day.

Deuteronomy 4:39 Know therefore this day, and consider it in thine heart, that the LORD he is God in heaven above, and upon the earth beneath: there is none else.

Deuteronomy 4:40 Thou shalt keep therefore his statutes, and his commandments, which I command thee this day, that it may go well with thee, and with thy children after thee, and that thou mayest prolong thy days upon the earth, which the LORD thy God giveth thee, for ever.

As I said multiple times before, the word "shaamaayim," translated as "heaven," is the Hebrew word meaning the "SKIES" (in dual)! Go back and re-read this passage with the word "skies" or "[the] skies" in place of "heaven."

On 4/21/2021 at 12:43 AM, DeighAnn said:

Matthew 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

Matthew 16:19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

The same is true for the Greek word "ouranos" that is translated as "heaven" (or "heavens"). Sometimes, as in this case, the actual plural of the word is used in the context.

The Greek of Matthew 16:19 is.

Kata Maththaion 16:19

19 doosoo soi tas kleidas tees basileias toon ouranoon, kai ho ean deesees epi tees gees estai dedemenon en tois ouranois, kai ho ean lusenes epi tees gees estai lelumenon en tois ouranois.

19 doosoo = 19 I-will-give
soi = to-you (singular)
tas = the
kleidas = keys
tees = of-the
basileias = kingdom
toon = from-the
ouranoon, = skies,
kai = and/also
ho = the-[one]
ean = if
deesees = you-might-compel
epi = upon/above
tees = the
gees = earth/ground/land
estai = shall-be
dedemenon = compelled
en = in
tois = the
ouranois, = skies,
kai = and/also
ho = the-one
ean = if
lusenes = you-might-release
epi = upon/above
tees = the
gees = earth/ground/land
estai = shall-be
lelumenon = released
en = in
tois = the
ouranois. = skies.

It's more local than one might be trying to say that it is.

On 4/21/2021 at 12:43 AM, DeighAnn said:

Luke 23:42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.

Luke 23:43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.
 

And, for the thief who died that day upon the cross, he closed his eyes in death and, for him, he will immediately re-open them at the Return of the Messiah, the First Resurrection, when he will be found in the Park, the Garden of Gethsemane.

On 4/21/2021 at 12:43 AM, DeighAnn said:

And they are 'ages' not levels, IMHO.  

I don't know what you're talking about here.

[Willa]

We consist of body, soul and spirit according to the New Testament formula.  Our spirits were dead till Christ breathed on the disciples and instructed them to receive the Holy Spirit.  It is the part of us that can communicate with the Holy Spirit--God.  It resides in our soul.

Soul is self.  It is all that makes up our personality and makes us unique.  It resides in our body till our death when it immediately is with Jesus.

The body will be resurrected when Jesus comes back for it and it arises to meet Him in the air.  It will be transformed into a spiritual body at that time.  We shall be like Christ.  

I don't plan to reply to any posts concerning this because it is useless to argue with your Seventh Day Adventist indoctrination.