The Great Tribulation is no purgatory for the church / Foolish virgins scream......(scary stuff)

[Uriah]

30 minutes ago, JoeCanada said:

Hi Uriah,

Wait...What? 

Can you explain yourself please. 

Typo.

Should look like this: 

Of course we are told in scripture that when people see Jesus He will descend out of heaven and we will meet Him in the air. That is what this passage shows. See Matt. 24 /1 Thes. 4.

Thanks Joe

[JoeCanada]

3 minutes ago, Uriah said:

Typo.

Should look like this: 

Of course we are told in scripture that when people see Jesus He will descend out of heaven and we will meet Him in the air. That is what this passage shows. See Matt. 24 /1 Thes. 4.

Thanks Joe

Phew!

For a minute I thought you went rogue.............. lol

[Revelation Man]

15 hours ago, JoeCanada said:

Revman,

Ron, you crack me up.......rofl

The "THEY" in Rev 5:9 are not separated. "THEY" are both the "four living creatures" and "the twenty-four elders".

Sure "THEY ARE", they needed Redemption by Jesus Blood right? WRONG, only fallen men need to be Redeemed. How do you have this big a problem understanding SUMPLE TEXTS?  

Rev. 5:9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

The THEY...........Becomes US who are said to be REDEEEMED via Jesus' Blood. 

What is really going on is I am destroying your thesis, thus you are grasping at straws like this. This would be a bad argument for a 5th grader brother.

16 hours ago, JoeCanada said:

Sooooooo........ are you saying that the "four living creatures" are also part and parcel of the redeemed church?

Who could they possibly be? I've seen some 'ugly' folks but hey....... well, you never know.

It also amuses me that you go to KJV for this scripture............. but then you turn around and deny KJV for 2THes 2:3. I guess it's ok to use whatever peg will fit in that round hole.

The earliest and best manuscripts ( like Codex A, , the best witness to Revelation) support the rendering of Rev 5:9 as "and has redeemed THEM to God....and has made THEM kings and priests." 

So, there is NO ARGUMENT to rebut here, they THEY = the US = the REDEEMED and everyone knows it. Except you, who can't admit to yourself = DENIAL.

16 hours ago, JoeCanada said:

Can you look in your code book what the "four living creatures" are? I'm dying to know.

Why, the THEY = People from the Nations who were REDEEMED. The Four Beasts are seen in Ezekiel chapter 1, we know they are God's Angelic guards which represents Humanity (Mans face), Wild animals (Lion's face), Domesticated animals (Oxen face), and finally Birds of the air ( Eagles face). 

But your conflation of what is being spoken of (the only hope you had, I guess), is made NULL & VOID by the facts sir. Moving right along. 

16 hours ago, JoeCanada said:

And here is another point which I have yet to hear an answer for. 

Jesus said that the redeemed (the church) would sit with Him on His throne. 

Why is the church sitting on their OWN thrones in Rev 5:9? 

This square peg does not fit in THAT round hole. 

You are going to feel really, really bad after I post this scripture. It is what it is..

Rev. 4:2 And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne(Jesus/God). 3 And he that sat was to look upon like a jasper and a sardine stone(Jesus): and there was a rainbow round about the throne, in sight like unto an emerald.

4 And round about the throne were four and twenty seats: and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold.

BOOM......BOOM..........BOOM..

Fillet, crisp, and tender. Ready to be served. Do you like yours on SQUARE PLATES?

[Revelation Man]

16 hours ago, Uriah said:

ouranos (heaven)

Can mean the dwelling place of God and angels or: the vaulted expanse of the sky with all things visible in it

Of course we are told in scripture that when people see Jesus we will descend out of heaven and we will meet Him in the air. That is what this passage shows. See Matt. 24 /1 Thes. 4.

YIKES........Me defeating their arguments leads to COULD HAVES.......WOULD HAVES and MAYBES. Come on  man, give it up. 

Edited December 22, 2020 by Revelation Man

[Diaste]

On 12/19/2020 at 5:23 PM, R. Hartono said:

 

Enoch said Lord will come with thousand and thousands of His saints. Jude 1:14 Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about them: "See, the Lord is coming with thousands upon thousands of his holy ones, This is about Rev 19:¹⁴ The armies of heaven were following him, riding on white horses and dressed in fine linen, white and clean. This is Jesus with saints going to Armageddon battle to battle and retake the world.

Yes...'holy ones'. That could be saints but it is also applied to angels. I know of one place in all scripture where a man of God killed people that followed Satan. I don't believe that is a precedent for an army of the elect returning from heaven to slay millions at the end of the age.

It can't be determined if the armies or the 'holy ones' are the raptured elect or angels from these passages. 

I would say since the teaching of Jesus and His example to us is non-violence, it's difficult for me to think the raptured children of the Most High God are conscripted into an army. 

And don't you say something on the order of: "Why would God take a bride and leave her on earth to be beaten and killed?" But you have no problem with that same bride as an army slaughtering millions? What husband makes their brides into an army?  

On 12/19/2020 at 5:23 PM, R. Hartono said:

Isaiah 26:20 Go, My people, enter your rooms and SHUT THE DOOR behind you; hide yourselves for a little while until His wrath has passed by. 21 For, behold, the Lord cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain.

Yes. The people are told to hide during the time of God's wrath, not pick up a sword and participate.

It's clear the only group we see in heaven is the multitude around the throne that came out from within GT. They are never described as an army. In the detailed description of their destiny and rewards fighting the final battle does not appear. 

[Uriah]

11 hours ago, R. Hartono said:

The wedding has alrdy taken place in heaven of Rev 19, how can the army on white horses are angels to gather the wise virgins ?

Can you show me where it says that?

[Uriah]

11 hours ago, R. Hartono said:

The world will mourn when they see Jesus coming on clouds because they are left behind as Jesus rapture His saints. The world mourn because Jesus doesnt land on to the earth to rule.

Yes, they see Him when He gather His saints. Not before. Matt. 24

[Uriah]

4 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

YIKES........Me defeating there arguments leads to COULD HAVES.......WOULD HAVES and MAYBES. Come on  man, give it up. 

Thought you were able to see the actual context that a the usage...To know if sky is intended, compare scripture to scripture, Jesus coming with angels is seen in Matt. 24. We know He descends and we meet Him in the  AIR

Here He is NOT at the throne but comes to the place to do battle. Only at this point is the bride given the heavenly attire. So it is the time to be gathered...in the AIR. The correct choice in determining.

 

[Revelation Man]

3 hours ago, Uriah said:

Thought you were able to see the actual context that a the usage...To know if sky is intended, compare scripture to scripture, Jesus coming with angels is seen in Matt. 24. We know He descends and we meet Him in the  AIR

Here He is NOT at the throne but comes to the place to do battle. Only at this point is the bride given the heavenly attire. So it is the time to be gathered...in the AIR. The correct choice in determining.

 

He returns with the Saints..............and the Angels is a given. That requires a pre trip Rapture. We SEE the Church in Heaven BEEFORE the Seals are opened in Rev. 4:4 and Rev. 5:9. 

[Uriah]

7 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

He returns with the Saints..............and the Angels is a given. That requires a pre trip Rapture. We SEE the Church in Heaven BEEFORE the Seals are opened in Rev. 4:4 and Rev. 5:9. 

...with the saints-This would obviously include the O.T. AND N.T people. But it is impossible! You are disregarding Heb. 11:40. This disallows the resurrection WITHOUT All of the saints. And there will be an innumerable living through the great tribulation. That is, unless you are one of those who have a teaching of multiple resurrections AND raptures. If those saints from the GT do not receive ALL that is promised in the Gospel they had been believing-it is another gospel. 

BEFORE the seals are opened...This shows that you are still reading Revelation in linear mode. Besides that, Rev. 5: is NOT the end of the vision. It continues down to the end of the chapter.

V. 14 says: And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.

This is what Paul had n mind in Phil.2:9-11- Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

This is the great day when it is over, at the end!, when the millennium begins. Again, ALL His saints must be present.