Abomination

[Marathoner]

23 minutes ago, Josheb said:

To whom was Matthew originally writing?

This wasn't asked of me but in the interest of discussion, a Hebrew (Jewish) audience. I believe the genealogy is a clear indicator of whom Matthew was addressing. 

Edited March 18, 2021 by Marathoner

[Charlie744]

21 minutes ago, Josheb said:

Daniel 12:9-13
"He said, 'Go your way, Daniel, for these words are concealed and sealed up until the end time.  Many will be purged, purified and refined, but the wicked will act wickedly; and none of the wicked will understand, but those who have insight will understand.  From the time that the regular sacrifice is abolished and the abomination of desolation is set up, there will be 1,290 days.  How blessed is he who keeps waiting and attains to the 1,335 days!  But as for you, go your way to the end; then you will enter into rest and rise again for your allotted portion at the end of the age.'" 

Matthew 24:9-16
"Then they will deliver you to tribulation, and will kill you, and you will be hated by all nations because of My name.  At that time many will fall away and will betray one another and hate one another.  Many false prophets will arise and will mislead many.  Because lawlessness is increased, most people's love will grow cold.  But the one who endures to the end, he will be saved.  This gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all the nations, and then the end will come.  Therefore when you see the abomination of desolation which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand),  then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains."

Mark 13:12-14
"Brother will betray brother to death, and a father his child; and children will rise up against parents and have them put to death.  You will be hated by all because of My name, but the one who endures to the end, he will be saved.  But when you see the abomination of desolation standing where it should not be (let the reader understand), then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains." 

If the AoD is a person then why didn't Jesus call it a "he"? Why did he call it and "it" and not a "he"? (or she?) 

 

Anyone?

 

As usual Josheb, you have the ability to focus on both the macro and micro!

I have not or yet to look at this in Mark so I can not comment... but just thinking out loud, he is referring to the abomination (act) perpetrated on one... 

However, unless I missed it, the reference in the Gospels refers to Daniel 9:27 (for me). And chapter 9 is about the prayer of Daniel of course and the coming Messiah (although much of 9 has been deeply corrupted away from speaking about Him). 

But my interpretation points to the verses 9:24 to 9:27 which brings the Jews back to Jerusalem and the coming Messiah and His crucifixion. My interpretation is the “abomination” can not be anything other than His crucifixion... and among other things this will be the last time the Temple will be important or relevant In Jewish history or in God’s Plan of Salvation.. After His crucifixion the Temple will be completely destroyed and no more, the land will be salted and abandoned and will not give its fruit, the Jews will be murdered and dispersed for almost 2,000 years... There can not be an more horrible event that the rejection of their Messiah and His crucifixion— the crucifixion of our Lord is the most abominable act that could ever occur... 

Thanks, Charlie 

[Brother Duke]

The abomination happens 1290 days after the daily sacrifices are taken away.  What are the daily sacrifices?

[Duck]

57 minutes ago, Brother Duke said:

The abomination happens 1290 days after the daily sacrifices are taken away.  What are the daily sacrifices?

THAT is the question :)

[Logostician]

The abomination that makes desolate is prophesy with historic and future fulfillment, as is the case with the ancient Roman Empire that destroyed the Temple in 70AD, and the revived Roman Empire that will rise up in the last days.

Dan 11:31

And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.

In 167 BC Antiochus Epiphanes, king of Syria, desecrated the temple by halting the sacrifices mandated by God, and sacrificed a pig on an altar to zeus that he erected in the temple.  This profaned the temple of God, and eventually led to the war of the Maccabees, which is discussed in the apocropha, which is not in the canonical Bible.

But the ultimate fulfillment of Daniel's prophesy will be fulfilled by the beast, the son of Satan, during the tribulation.

In chapter 9 of Daniel, the prophet gives his prophesy of 70 weeks of years covering 490:years.  Verse 24 pinpoints the arrival of Jesus in the flesh, and was probably used by the Magi to seek a sign in the stars to find Jesus.  But verse 27 refers to the future week of the tribulation, and the beast who first authors a treaty/covenant that allows the rebuilding of the temple with daily sacrifices, but then breaks the covenant at the midpoint of the 7 years.

Dan 9:27

And he (beast) shall confirm the covenant with many for one week (7 years).  And in the midst (middle) of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations, he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation (end of this world), and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

The beast's edict to halt the daily sacrifice in the temple makes it desolate (without purpose).  But the true abomination that makes desolate is the beast himself.

2 Thess 2:3-4

Let no man deceive you by any means.  For that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed (beast), the son of perdition (Satan).  Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped.  So that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

The beast is the son of Satan who will for a short time defile the the temple, pretending to be the Son of God, until he, and his unholy army, are destroyed by Jesus and his heavenly host.

Rev 19:19-20

And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.  And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image.  These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

[Charlie744]

1 hour ago, Brother Duke said:

The abomination happens 1290 days after the daily sacrifices are taken away.  What are the daily sacrifices?

Okay, we now have two different interpretations .... which we might want to work with and discuss further......

Can you share what is the abomination and its origin in Daniel ?

Thank you, Charlie

[Duck]

Satan Bound 1,000 Years

Rev. 20

1 Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, having the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. 

² He laid hold of the dragon, that serpent of old, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years;

 ³ and he cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal on him, so that he should deceive the nations no more till the thousand years were finished.

But after these things he must be released for a little while.

does anybody else think he has recently been released?

[Charlie744]

44 minutes ago, Logostician said:

The abomination that makes desolate is prophesy with historic and future fulfillment, as is the case with the ancient Roman Empire that destroyed the Temple in 70AD, and the revived Roman Empire that will rise up in the last days.

Dan 11:31

And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.

In 167 BC Antiochus Epiphanes, king of Syria, desecrated the temple by halting the sacrifices mandated by God, and sacrificed a pig on an altar to zeus that he erected in the temple.  This profaned the temple of God, and eventually led to the war of the Maccabees, which is discussed in the apocropha, which is not in the canonical Bible.

But the ultimate fulfillment of Daniel's prophesy will be fulfilled by the beast, the son of Satan, during the tribulation.

In chapter 9 of Daniel, the prophet gives his prophesy of 70 weeks of years covering 490:years.  Verse 24 pinpoints the arrival of Jesus in the flesh, and was probably used by the Magi to seek a sign in the stars to find Jesus.  But verse 27 refers to the future week of the tribulation, and the beast who first authors a treaty/covenant that allows the rebuilding of the temple with daily sacrifices, but then breaks the covenant at the midpoint of the 7 years.

Dan 9:27

And he (beast) shall confirm the covenant with many for one week (7 years).  And in the midst (middle) of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations, he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation (end of this world), and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

The beast's edict to halt the daily sacrifice in the temple makes it desolate (without purpose).  But the true abomination that makes desolate is the beast himself.

Thank you for this response. Your interpretation clearly falls in line with today's most accepted interpretations here.... mine - not so much!

If you do not mind, perhaps we might attempt to take each interpretation one and a time and discuss.... 

First, I believe the "he" in 9:27 is "He", the coming Messiah. The entire chapter 9 is about God's restoration of the Jews to Jerusalem (prayer by Daniel) and the coming Messiah.....

He (Messiah) will make a covenant (this ties in with the NEW COVENANT = His final covenant with man and spoken of in Jeremiah 31) - Only God has made multiple covenants with man and where man has not kept one..... 

This Covenant made by Jesus will occur within the last week (7 years) of Daniels 70 week prophecy. All the other "required" pieces for Israel's restoration have been fulfilled within the first 2 sectioned periods of the 70 weeks - land, buildings, city and the Temple were all completed / restored during this period of 483 years of the 490 year prophecy.... one week left and within this final week must all the remaining pieces be restored...... and there is only ONE who can fulfill them- The Messiah.

He (Messiah) will cause the sacrifice to cease refers to the Messiah being "cut off" or crucified exactly 3.5 years into the final 7 year period. He is the perfect sacrifice, the Lamb of God who takes away our sin. His sacrifice eliminates the need for any further animal sacrifices...... 

I will stop here since there are a few items mentioned above we might want to discuss further.....

But the bottom line is that Daniel is prophetic book about the coming Messiah and not some AC boogeyman who will arrive some 2,000 years in the future. Daniel certainly speaks to this period in chapter 12 and the last quarter of 11 but chapter 9 is the "meat" of final piece of the "restoration" and the coming Messiah.... nothing is more important than Jesus and this book is about Him.... 

So, this maybe enough for us to consider further, Charlie

 

 

44 minutes ago, Logostician said:

2 Thess 2:3-4

Let no man deceive you by any means.  For that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed (beast), the son of perdition (Satan).  Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped.  So that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

The beast is the son of Satan who will for a short time defile the the temple, pretending to be the Son of God, until he, and his unholy army, are destroyed by Jesus and his heavenly host.

Rev 19:19-20

And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.  And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image.  These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

 

[Charlie744]

1 hour ago, Duck said:

THAT is the question

Please see my response to Brother Duke  (just now) and I would love to read your responses = yea or nea...... and everyone can read each others interpretations of Daniel

Thanks, Charlie

[Brother Duke]

30 minutes ago, Charlie744 said:

Okay, we now have two different interpretations .... which we might want to work with and discuss further......

Can you share what is the abomination and its origin in Daniel ?

Thank you, Charlie

Daniel 12:11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

 

If we know when the daily sacrifice is taken away then 1290 days later we should be able to pinpoint the abomination.

Edited March 18, 2021 by Brother Duke
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