Futurism

[DeighAnn]

32 minutes ago, Charlie744 said:

DeighAnn, this 6 requirements were indeed fulfilled by the Messiah- those identified in 9:24... 

And if that was what the prophecy was originally about, then we would be on the same page.  

BUT IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH HIM.  IT IS ABOUT THE SINS OF THE PEOPLE.  

 

Daniel 9:4 And I prayed unto the LORD my God, and made my confession, and said, O Lord, the great and dreadful God, keeping the covenant and mercy to them that love him, and to them that keep his commandments;

Daniel 9:5 We have sinned, and have committed iniquity, and have done wickedly, and have rebelled, even by departing from thy precepts and from thy judgments

Daniel 9:6 Neither have we hearkened unto thy servants the prophets, which spake in thy name to our kings, our princes, and our fathers, and to all the people of the land.

Daniel 9:7 O Lord, righteousness belongeth unto thee, but unto us confusion of faces, as at this day; to the men of Judah, and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and unto all Israel, that are near, and that are far off, through all the countries whither thou hast driven them, because of their trespass that they have trespassed against thee.  (Lev 26)

 

Daniel 9:8 O Lord, to us belongeth confusion of face, to our kings, to our princes, and to our fathers, because we have sinned against thee.

Daniel 9:9 To the Lord our God belong mercies and forgivenesses, though we have rebelled against him;

 

Daniel 9:10 Neither have we obeyed the voice of the LORD our God, to walk in his laws, which he set before us by his servants the prophets.

Daniel 9:11 Yea, all Israel have transgressed thy law, even by departing, that they might not obey thy voice; therefore the curse is poured upon us, and the oath that is written in the law of Moses the servant of God, because we have sinned against him.
Leviticus 26 = 2520 years under the curse
 

Daniel 9:12 And HE hath confirmed his words, which HE spake against us, and against our judges that judged us, by bringing upon us a great evil for under the whole heaven hath not been done as hath been done upon Jerusalem.

Daniel 9:13 As it is written in the law of Moses, all this evil is come upon us yet made we not our prayer before the LORD our God, that we might turn from our iniquities, and understand thy truth.

Daniel 9:14 Therefore hath the LORD watched upon the evil, and brought it upon us for the LORD our God is righteous in all HIS works which HE doeth for we obeyed not HIS voice.

Daniel 9:15 And now, O Lord our God, that hast brought thy people forth out of the land of Egypt with a mighty hand, and hast gotten thee renown, as at this day; we have sinned, we have done wickedly.

Daniel 9:16 O Lord, according to all thy righteousness, I beseech thee, let thine anger and thy fury be turned away from thy city Jerusalem, thy holy mountain because for our sins, and for the iniquities of our fathers, Jerusalem and thy people are become a reproach to all that are about us.

Daniel 9:17 Now therefore, O our God, hear the prayer of thy servant, and his supplications, and cause thy face to shine upon thy sanctuary that is desolate, for the Lord's sake.

Daniel 9:18 O my God, incline thine ear, and hear; open thine eyes, and behold our desolations, and the city which is called by thy name for we do not present our supplications before thee for our righteousnesses, but for thy great mercies.

Daniel 9:19 O Lord, hear; O Lord, forgive; O Lord, hearken and do; defer not, for thine own sake, O my God for thy city and thy people are called by thy name.

Daniel 9:20 And whiles I was speaking, and praying, and confessing my sin and the sin of my people Israel, and presenting my supplication before the LORD my God for the holy mountain of my God;

Daniel 9:21 Yea, whiles I was speaking in prayer, even the man Gabriel, whom I had seen in the vision at the beginning, being caused to fly swiftly, touched me about the time of the evening oblation.

Daniel 9:22 And he informed me, and talked with me, and said, O Daniel, I am now come forth to give thee skill and understanding.

Daniel 9:23 At the beginning of thy supplications the commandment came forth, and I am come to shew thee; for thou art greatly beloved therefore understand the matter, and consider the vision.

Daniel 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

 70 WEEKS  ARE BEING DECREED/determined UPON UPON ISRAEL (THY PEOPLE)  AND  JERUSALEM (HOLY CITY)

BACK TO BASICS - and REMEMBER the years are not just leading up to Christs arrival but to the KINGDOM BEING PROCLAIMED, WHICH IF ACCEPTED, WOULD HAVE STILL LEFT ONE WEEK at the END of 'this age'.  

There will be 70 weeks for the punishment of the transgressions Daniel has been confessing to.  They will be used to BUILD BACK THE CITY AND THE TEMPLE FOR CHRISTS ARRIVAL.  BY THE TIME CHRIST is crucified, ALL BUT ONE WEEK will have been 'paid' up.  

THAT LAST WEEK, HAD THE KINGDOM BEEN ACCEPTED WOULD HAVE BEEN USED UP THEN.  BUT THE KINGDOM WAS PUT IN ABEYANCE, maybe that is why  THE LAST WEEK WAS PUT IN ABEYANCE, that last week being DIFFERENT depending upon what happened.   THAT LAST WEEK WILL NOW BE A WEEK IN WHICH SATAN WILL LEAD ALL REBELLION AND ALL REBELLION WILL BE SEALED UP WHEN CHRIST RETURNS. Maybe.  


3607  FINISH  to shut up, restrain, withhold
6588 TRANSGRESSION breach of trust (1), rebellion (6), rebellious (1), rebellious act (2), rebellious acts (2), transgression (37), transgressions (45).

CAN THE CRUCIFIXION OF CHRIST AT 482YRS 
CHANGE, END, DIVERT, ETC.  WHAT GOD HAS DECREED OR DETERMINED  WILL TAKE 490 YEARS?

This SINGLE fact alone makes it impossible for the 'cutting off of Christ' to have anything to do with WHAT IS DETERMINED on the people and the city BY the prophecy.  

But in the interest of what I would be thinking if I were on the other side, 


to make an end of sins
Did the crucifixion make an end of sin?  As I am a sinner, I would say the crucifixion brought in FORGIVENESS for sin, being washed clean, but it did not make an END of sin.  (I personally believe AT THIS POINT that this 'sealing up of sin IS when Satan will be bound, cast into the pit and a SEAL affixed upon it)

2856 to seal, affix a seal, seal up 

Gonna stop here

[Charlie744]

2 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

And if that was what the prophecy was originally about, then we would be on the same page.  

BUT IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH HIM.  IT IS ABOUT THE SINS OF THE PEOPLE.  

 

Daniel 9:4 And I prayed unto the LORD my God, and made my confession, and said, O Lord, the great and dreadful God, keeping the covenant and mercy to them that love him, and to them that keep his commandments;

Daniel 9:5 We have sinned, and have committed iniquity, and have done wickedly, and have rebelled, even by departing from thy precepts and from thy judgments

Daniel 9:6 Neither have we hearkened unto thy servants the prophets, which spake in thy name to our kings, our princes, and our fathers, and to all the people of the land.

Daniel 9:7 O Lord, righteousness belongeth unto thee, but unto us confusion of faces, as at this day; to the men of Judah, and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and unto all Israel, that are near, and that are far off, through all the countries whither thou hast driven them, because of their trespass that they have trespassed against thee.  (Lev 26)

 

Daniel 9:8 O Lord, to us belongeth confusion of face, to our kings, to our princes, and to our fathers, because we have sinned against thee.

Daniel 9:9 To the Lord our God belong mercies and forgivenesses, though we have rebelled against him;

 

Daniel 9:10 Neither have we obeyed the voice of the LORD our God, to walk in his laws, which he set before us by his servants the prophets.

Daniel 9:11 Yea, all Israel have transgressed thy law, even by departing, that they might not obey thy voice; therefore the curse is poured upon us, and the oath that is written in the law of Moses the servant of God, because we have sinned against him.
Leviticus 26 = 2520 years under the curse
 

Daniel 9:12 And HE hath confirmed his words, which HE spake against us, and against our judges that judged us, by bringing upon us a great evil for under the whole heaven hath not been done as hath been done upon Jerusalem.

Daniel 9:13 As it is written in the law of Moses, all this evil is come upon us yet made we not our prayer before the LORD our God, that we might turn from our iniquities, and understand thy truth.

Daniel 9:14 Therefore hath the LORD watched upon the evil, and brought it upon us for the LORD our God is righteous in all HIS works which HE doeth for we obeyed not HIS voice.

Daniel 9:15 And now, O Lord our God, that hast brought thy people forth out of the land of Egypt with a mighty hand, and hast gotten thee renown, as at this day; we have sinned, we have done wickedly.

Daniel 9:16 O Lord, according to all thy righteousness, I beseech thee, let thine anger and thy fury be turned away from thy city Jerusalem, thy holy mountain because for our sins, and for the iniquities of our fathers, Jerusalem and thy people are become a reproach to all that are about us.

Daniel 9:17 Now therefore, O our God, hear the prayer of thy servant, and his supplications, and cause thy face to shine upon thy sanctuary that is desolate, for the Lord's sake.

Daniel 9:18 O my God, incline thine ear, and hear; open thine eyes, and behold our desolations, and the city which is called by thy name for we do not present our supplications before thee for our righteousnesses, but for thy great mercies.

Daniel 9:19 O Lord, hear; O Lord, forgive; O Lord, hearken and do; defer not, for thine own sake, O my God for thy city and thy people are called by thy name.

Daniel 9:20 And whiles I was speaking, and praying, and confessing my sin and the sin of my people Israel, and presenting my supplication before the LORD my God for the holy mountain of my God;

In the first important part of chapter 9 we see Daniel offering a required prayer to God for the forgiveness of his people. The Jews had been in captivity for 70 years. But according to the Laws in Leviticus, there can be no forgiveness until the High Priest offers this prayer to God... but because there were no priests in Babylon, Daniel had been allowed to act on behalf of a High Priest. This was a very long prayer to God and quite sincere. God would accept his prayer of forgiveness and would allow the Jews to be able to move forward. The captivity and punishment was over.

2 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

Daniel 9:21 Yea, whiles I was speaking in prayer, even the man Gabriel, whom I had seen in the vision at the beginning, being caused to fly swiftly, touched me about the time of the evening oblation.

Daniel 9:22 And he informed me, and talked with me, and said, O Daniel, I am now come forth to give thee skill and understanding.

Daniel 9:23 At the beginning of thy supplications the commandment came forth, and I am come to shew thee; for thou art greatly beloved therefore understand the matter, and consider the vision

Now we begin the learning of the 70 week prophecy... this is completely different from the 70 year period of captivity in Babylon. Daniel will now here of a 490 year prophecy. 

2 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

Daniel 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

Here Daniel is told what is to take place over the next 70 weeks or 490 years. Here in 9:24 Daniel is informed of 6 things that WILL occur or take place WITHIN this 70 week period (490 years). It does NOT say “maybe”, or “perhaps”, or “partial”, or there will be a “GAP” within ANY of these 70 weeks. 

 

2 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

 70 WEEKS  ARE BEING DECREED/determined UPON UPON ISRAEL (THY PEOPLE)  AND  JERUSALEM (HOLY CITY)

Yes, there will be 70 weeks or 490 years and then the people, the city where certain things will happen to them.

2 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

 

2 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

BACK TO BASICS - and REMEMBER the years are not just leading up to Christs arrival but to the KINGDOM BEING PROCLAIMED, WHICH IF ACCEPTED, WOULD HAVE STILL LEFT ONE WEEK at the END of 'this age'.  

 

Not sure sure what this is all about... I will move forward...

2 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

There will be 70 weeks for the punishment of the transgressions Daniel has been confessing to. 

Oh, I think I see an possible misunderstanding here... As I mentioned above, Daniel’s prayer ended the 70 year punishment- it is no longer, it is now in the past! The prayer sealed their punishment- no more!

2 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

They will be used to BUILD BACK THE CITY AND THE TEMPLE FOR CHRISTS ARRIVAL. 

Depending on who is counting the 3rd decree made by Artxeris in 457 BC began the start of the 70 weeks (490 year period). And within this period all 6 of the things in 9:24 WILL be fulfilled, OR these prophecies are false and God’s Word / Scriptures are ALL false. 

So all we now have to do is to count the first 7 weeks (49 years), then another 62 weeks (434 years). This means at the end of these 69 weeks (483 years), THE MESSIAH!!!!!!

This means He comes exactly on the first day of 70th week- Day 1 of the next 7 years or the last week in the 70 weeks prophecy!

I hope you are still good to go at this point??????

2 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

BY THE TIME CHRIST is crucified, ALL BUT ONE WEEK will have been 'paid' up.  

THAT LAST WEEK, HAD THE KINGDOM BEEN ACCEPTED WOULD HAVE BEEN USED UP THEN.  BUT THE KINGDOM WAS PUT IN ABEYANCE, maybe that is why  THE LAST WEEK WAS PUT IN ABEYANCE, that last week being DIFFERENT depending upon what happened.   THAT LAST WEEK WILL NOW BE A WEEK IN WHICH SATAN WILL LEAD ALL REBELLION AND ALL REBELLION WILL BE SEALED UP WHEN CHRIST RETURNS. Maybe.  

Now all all of this above should be eliminated and thrown away with the BACON wrappers - let it go out of your mind.... please. 

 

As mentioned many times before, Daniel identifies the “physical” things that WILL be “restored” within those same 69 weeks- the people will return, the city and the buildings will be restored, and the Temple will be rebuilt. AND ALL of this happened within the 69 weeks. 

Notice that NONE of the 6 things in 9:24 have yet to be fulfilled.... but keep in mind they MUST be fulfilled within the 70 weeks period (490 years). This means two things:

1) to fulfill God’s prophecy of 9:24, they will have to be fulfilled in the last and final week,

2) these very specific 6 requirements are not the kind of prophecies that ANY man on earth could fulfill- thus, these 6 will and can only be fulfilled by the coming Messiah... This was HIS MISSION to fulfill.

If you do the math, Jesus was baptized exactly on the first day of the 70th week... now, He would have 7 years to fulfill His Mission (6 requirements of 9:24).

We all know He was crucified exactly 3.5 years into this last week of 7 years, so if you are still with me then the ONLY remaining problem or issue to resolve is whether or not The Messiah fulfilled / fulfilled those 6.... 

So, I am going to stop here before we might discuss those 6 requirements in the last week of Daniel (where Jesus would actually fulfill all of them in 3.5 of the last 7 years. 

 

So, now it is your turn to tell me if you agree or not with the above... BEFORE we discuss the 6 requirements.

Thanks, Charlie 

 

2 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

3607  FINISH  to shut up, restrain, withhold
6588 TRANSGRESSION breach of trust (1), rebellion (6), rebellious (1), rebellious act (2), rebellious acts (2), transgression (37), transgressions (45).

CAN THE CRUCIFIXION OF CHRIST AT 482YRS 
CHANGE, END, DIVERT, ETC.  WHAT GOD HAS DECREED OR DETERMINED  WILL TAKE 490 YEARS?

This SINGLE fact alone makes it impossible for the 'cutting off of Christ' to have anything to do with WHAT IS DETERMINED on the people and the city BY the prophecy.  

But in the interest of what I would be thinking if I were on the other side, 


to make an end of sins
Did the crucifixion make an end of sin?  As I am a sinner, I would say the crucifixion brought in FORGIVENESS for sin, being washed clean, but it did not make an END of sin.  (I personally believe AT THIS POINT that this 'sealing up of sin IS when Satan will be bound, cast into the pit and a SEAL affixed upon it)

2856 to seal, affix a seal, seal up 

Gonna stop here

 

[DeighAnn]

1 hour ago, Charlie744 said:

1) to fulfill God’s prophecy of 9:24, they will have to be fulfilled in the last and final week,

I agree with this.  So we do agree on one thing.  Let's take that as a win.  
 

[Charlie744]

33 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

I agree with this.  So we do agree on one thing.  Let's take that as a win.  
 

Terrific! When you get a chance perhaps you can comment on those things (one at a time) that was mentioned in my last response to you that you agree with, disagree with and or have another understanding...

Charlie 

PS. How is the bacon?

[Retrobyter]

14 hours ago, Diaste said:

I'm saying you are making assumptions about what 'after' means. Understand that once the first century was completed, the next 19 centuries were after.  You are simply defining after to suit your beliefs.

Shabbat shalom, Diaste.

It was not the prophecy recorded by Daniel that introduced the "gap"; it was the MESSIAH HIMSELF who introduced the "gap!" There's no other way that one could be introduced! People who think that there's some other explanation for the "gap" of almost 2,000 years have no understanding of God's PURPOSE!

Here's the simple history: God promised David an heir - a "Seed" - whose Kingdom would be forever. God made an UNCONDITIONAL COVENANT with David!

2 Samuel 7:4-17 (KJV)

4 And it came to pass that night, that the word of the LORD came unto Nathan (the prophet), saying, 

5 "Go and tell my servant David,

"'Thus saith the LORD,

"'"Shalt thou build me an house for me to dwell in? 6 Whereas I have not dwelt in any house since the time that I brought up the children of Israel out of Egypt, even to this day, but have walked in a tent and in a tabernacle. 7 In all the places wherein I have walked with all the children of Israel spake I a word with any of the tribes of Israel, whom I commanded to feed my people Israel, saying, 'Why build ye not me an house of cedar?"''

8 "Now therefore so shalt thou say unto my servant David,

"'Thus saith the LORD of hosts,

"'"I took thee from the sheepcote, from following the sheep, to be ruler over my people, over Israel: 9 And I was with thee whithersoever thou wentest, and have cut off all thine enemies out of thy sight, and have made thee a great name, like unto the name of the great men that are in the earth. 10 Moreover I will appoint a place for my people Israel, and will plant them, that they may dwell in a place of their own, and move no more; neither shall the children of wickedness afflict them any more, as beforetime, 11 And as since the time that I commanded judges to be over my people Israel, and have caused thee to rest from all thine enemies."'

"'"Also the LORD telleth thee that HE will make THEE an house. 12 And when thy days be fulfilled, and thou shalt sleep with thy fathers, I WILL SET UP THY SEED AFTER THEE, WHICH SHALL PROCEED OUT OF THY BOWELS, AND I WILL ESTABLISH HIS KINGDOM. 13 HE SHALL BUILD AN HOUSE FOR MY NAME, AND I WILL STABLISH THE THRONE OF HIS KINGDOM FOR EVER. 14 I WILL BE HIS FATHER, AND HE SHALL BE MY SON. If he commit iniquity, I will chasten him with the rod of men, and with the stripes of the children of men: 15 But my mercy shall not depart away from him, as I took it from Saul, whom I put away before thee. 16 And THINE HOUSE AND THY KINGDOM SHALL BE ESTABLISHED FOR EVER BEFORE THEE: THY THRONE SHALL BE ESTABLISHED FOR EVER."'"

17 According to all these words, and according to all this vision, so did Nathan speak unto David.

And, there is a SECOND witness to this Davidic Covenant!

1 Chronicles 17:3-15 (KJV)

3 And it came to pass the same night, that the word of God came to Nathan, saying, 

4 "Go and tell David my servant,

"'Thus saith the LORD,

"'"Thou shalt not build me an house to dwell in: 5 For I have not dwelt in an house since the day that I brought up Israel unto this day; but have gone from tent to tent, and from one tabernacle to another. 6 Wheresoever I have walked with all Israel, spake I a word to any of the judges of Israel, whom I commanded to feed my people, saying, 'Why have ye not built me an house of cedars?'

7 "Now therefore thus shalt thou say unto my servant David,

"'Thus saith the LORD of hosts,

"'"I took thee from the sheepcote, even from following the sheep, that thou shouldest be ruler over my people Israel: 8 And I have been with thee whithersoever thou hast walked, and have cut off all thine enemies from before thee, and have made thee a name like the name of the great men that are in the earth. 9 Also I will ordain a place for my people Israel, and will plant them, and they shall dwell in their place, and shall be moved no more; neither shall the children of wickedness waste them any more, as at the beginning, 10 And since the time that I commanded judges to be over my people Israel. Moreover I will subdue all thine enemies.

"'"Furthermore I tell thee that the LORD will build THEE an house. 11 And it shall come to pass, when thy days be expired that thou must go to be with thy fathers, that I WILL RAISE UP THY SEED AFTER THEE, WHICH SHALL BE OF THY SONS; AND I WILL ESTABLISH HIS KINGDOM. 12 HE SHALL BUILD ME AN HOUSE, AND I WILL STABLISH HIS THRONE FOR EVER. 13 I WILL BE HIS FATHER, AND HE SHALL BE MY SON: and I will not take my mercy away from him, as I took it from him that was before thee: 14 BUT I WILL SETTLE HIM IN MINE HOUSE AND IN MY KINGDOM FOR EVER: AND HIS THRONE SHALL BE ESTABLISHED FOR EVERMORE."'" 

15 According to all these words, and according to all this vision, so did Nathan speak unto David.

And, this was repeated succinctly to Miryam ("Mary") in Luke 1:30-33:

Luke 1:30-33 (KJV)

30 And the angel said unto her,

"Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God. 31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS. 32 He shall be great, and shall be called THE SON OF THE HIGHEST: and THE LORD GOD SHALL GIVE UNTO HIM THE THRONE OF HIS FATHER DAVID: 33 AND HE SHALL REIGN OVER THE HOUSE OF JACOB FOR EVER; AND OF HIS KINGDOM THERE SHALL BE NO END.

So, "in the mouths of 2 or 3 witnesses," so to speak, we've established God's plan, not only for Israel and the Messiah to be King, Yeshua`, but we've also seen that He SHALL be the Son of God! God didn't say He would be LIKE his Son; He said that He would BE His Son! But, notice the FUTURE tense! Yeshua` was the Word before His "incarnation" (actually, when He was MADE flesh, not "PUT IN flesh"); however, afterward He BECAME God's Son and the Word BECAME flesh at His conception and was called "Yeshua`" after His birth, as predicted before His birth! That's an important distinction to accept! From the point of His conception and onward, He BECAME the "Son of God!"

Often, well-meaning Christians called Yeshua` "God," but He is always called at most "the SON of God." Why? It's because He gave up certain attributes of God when He was MADE flesh! He was LOCALIZED as a body! No longer was He "omnipresent."

He was no longer "omniscient"; there were certain things that only His Father, God the Father, would know, even though He was close to His Father and was shown what He needed to know.

Yeshua` HIMSELF said,

Matthew 24:36 (KJV)

36 "But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only."

The Greek says that He said,

36 "Peri de tees heemeras ekeinees kai hooras oudeis oiden, oude hoi aggeloi toon ouranoon, oude ho Huios, ei mee ho Pateer monos."

36 "Peri = 36 "Around/Concerning
de = but
tees = the
heemeras = day
ekeinees = that-one
kai = and
hooras = hour
oudeis = no-one
oiden, = knows/sees,
oude = but-not/neither
hoi = the
aggeloi = messengers
toon = of-the
ouranoon, = skies,
oude = but-not/neither
ho = the
Huios, = Son,
ei = if
mee = not
ho = the
Pateer = Father
monos." = only."

This is repeated for us in Mark 13:32.

Mark 13:32 (KJV)

32 "But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father."

The Greek is similar:

32 "Peri de tees heemeras ekeinees ee tees hooras oudeis oiden, oude hoi aggeloi en ouranoo, oude ho Huios, ei mee ho Pateer."

32 "Peri = 32 "Around/Concerning
de = but
tees = the
heemeras = day
ekeinees = that-one
ee = or
tees = the
hooras = hour
oudeis = no-one
oiden, = knows/sees,
oude = but-not/neither
hoi = the
aggeloi = messengers
en = in
ouranoo, = [the]-sky,
oude = but-not/neither
ho = the
Huios, = Son,
ei = if
mee = not
ho = the
Pateer." = Father."

But, as I said, it was the SON, Yeshua` haMashiyach (Yeshua` the Messiah or "Jesus the Christ"), who put the "gap" in time! Because of their rejection of Him as their King, Yeshua` also rejected THEM in that generation!

Matthew 23:37-39 (KJV)

37 "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not! 

38 "Behold, your house is left unto you DESOLATE! 39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, 'Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord!'"

I've shared this many times already, but this passage is a quotation from Psalm 118:26:

Psalm 118:22-26 (KJV)

22 The stone which the builders refused is become the head stone of the corner.
23 This is the LORD'S doing; it is marvellous in our eyes.
24 This is the day which the LORD hath made; we will rejoice and be glad in it.
25 Save now, I beseech thee, O LORD: O LORD, I beseech thee, send now prosperity.
26 Blessed be he that cometh in the name of the LORD: we have blessed you out of the house of the LORD.

And, what takes 11 words in English to say, the Hebrew uses 4 words:

26a Baruwkh haba' b-shem YHWH

26a Baruwkh = 26a Welcome
haba' = the-Comer
b-shem = in-[the]-name/on-[the]-authority
YHWH: = of-YHWH/of-the-LORD:

The masculine plural (used for a group of both masculine and feminine people) of the singular "Baruwkh haba'" is "Baruwkhiym haba'im" and is found at all the seaports and airports in Israel! It means "Welcome the-comers!" or "Welcome, travelers!" or "Welcome, visitors!"

So far, between Yeshua`s promise and the stubbornness of the Israeli people, THIS is what caused the "gap" of almost 2,000 years!

I should also add that Matthew 23:38 is a partial FULFILLMENT of Daniel 9:27!

Daniel 9:27 (KJV)

27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it DESOLATE, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Edited March 28, 2021 by Retrobyter
to add a thought

[DeighAnn]

43 minutes ago, Charlie744 said:

Terrific! When you get a chance perhaps you can comment on those things (one at a time) that was mentioned in my last response to you that you agree with, disagree with and or have another understanding...

Charlie 

PS. How is the bacon?

I don't eat pork.  I actually follow the food laws because I figure as God made our bodies and the animals bodies and the earth and He said something along the lines of I made these for you to eat and these others only to clean the earth, don't eat them, I figured I would just listen to that command, Him being my creator and all. I also read all the scriptures that say He said it was OK but I just can't figure out what would have changed from the OT to the New. I mean, did God change our bodies or  the scavengers of the earth when He brought us the NT?  Since I saw no change, and Peter never ate from the sheet as it was only to show him not to call any man unclean, and I STILL give thanks for those foods created to be received, I decided that giving thanks for those foods 'not created to be received' might be a bad idea.  BUT that's just me.  I have a conviction and so it becomes a law to me you know.  

I looked over the entire last post and have given already responses to every point you brought up and my objections with them and have nothing new for you. If something comes up, I will be sure to call on you.  For whatever reason, you are being led in that direction and I am not. 
Maybe someday another point will come up that we can take in all directions,  GOD knows.  

I have grown in knowledge and am much more solid in my understanding of this prophecy and I myself have no more questions on the subject and it has cleared up some other areas.  I am very glad to have done this study.  I pray that Gods Truth will always rule and reign in both our hearts and minds.  

Stay good and stay in the Word and  Good Night

[Charlie744]

18 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

I don't eat pork.  I actually follow the food laws because I figure as God made our bodies and the animals bodies and the earth and He said something along the lines of I made these for you to eat and these others only to clean the earth, don't eat them, I figured I would just listen to that command, Him being my creator and all. I also read all the scriptures that say He said it was OK but I just can't figure out what would have changed from the OT to the New. I mean, did God change our bodies or  the scavengers of the earth when He brought us the NT?  Since I saw no change, and Peter never ate from the sheet as it was only to show him not to call any man unclean, and I STILL give thanks for those foods created to be received, I decided that giving thanks for those foods 'not created to be received' might be a bad idea.  BUT that's just me.  I have a conviction and so it becomes a law to me you know.  

I looked over the entire last post and have given already responses to every point you brought up and my objections with them and have nothing new for you. If something comes up, I will be sure to call on you.  For whatever reason, you are being led in that direction and I am not. 
Maybe someday another point will come up that we can take in all directions,  GOD knows.  

I have grown in knowledge and am much more solid in my understanding of this prophecy and I myself have no more questions on the subject and it has cleared up some other areas.  I am very glad to have done this study.  I pray that Gods Truth will always rule and reign in both our hearts and minds.  

Stay good and stay in the Word and  Good Night

Thank you for the response and God bless always, Charlie

[Waggles]

As for me I am just going to watch it all unfold on the 6 o'clock news.

Even the fake news channels will not be able to spin the end of the world (but they still might blame it all on Trump). 

[Diaste]

3 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Shabbat shalom, Diaste.

It was not the prophecy recorded by Daniel that introduced the "gap"; it was the MESSIAH HIMSELF who introduced the "gap!" There's no other way that one could be introduced! People who think that there's some other explanation for the "gap" of almost 2,000 years have no understanding of God's PURPOSE!

Here's the simple history: God promised David an heir - a "Seed" - whose Kingdom would be forever. God made an UNCONDITIONAL COVENANT with David!

2 Samuel 7:4-17 (KJV)

4 And it came to pass that night, that the word of the LORD came unto Nathan (the prophet), saying, 

5 "Go and tell my servant David,

"'Thus saith the LORD,

"'"Shalt thou build me an house for me to dwell in? 6 Whereas I have not dwelt in any house since the time that I brought up the children of Israel out of Egypt, even to this day, but have walked in a tent and in a tabernacle. 7 In all the places wherein I have walked with all the children of Israel spake I a word with any of the tribes of Israel, whom I commanded to feed my people Israel, saying, 'Why build ye not me an house of cedar?"''

8 "Now therefore so shalt thou say unto my servant David,

"'Thus saith the LORD of hosts,

"'"I took thee from the sheepcote, from following the sheep, to be ruler over my people, over Israel: 9 And I was with thee whithersoever thou wentest, and have cut off all thine enemies out of thy sight, and have made thee a great name, like unto the name of the great men that are in the earth. 10 Moreover I will appoint a place for my people Israel, and will plant them, that they may dwell in a place of their own, and move no more; neither shall the children of wickedness afflict them any more, as beforetime, 11 And as since the time that I commanded judges to be over my people Israel, and have caused thee to rest from all thine enemies."'

"'"Also the LORD telleth thee that HE will make THEE an house. 12 And when thy days be fulfilled, and thou shalt sleep with thy fathers, I WILL SET UP THY SEED AFTER THEE, WHICH SHALL PROCEED OUT OF THY BOWELS, AND I WILL ESTABLISH HIS KINGDOM. 13 HE SHALL BUILD AN HOUSE FOR MY NAME, AND I WILL STABLISH THE THRONE OF HIS KINGDOM FOR EVER. 14 I WILL BE HIS FATHER, AND HE SHALL BE MY SON. If he commit iniquity, I will chasten him with the rod of men, and with the stripes of the children of men: 15 But my mercy shall not depart away from him, as I took it from Saul, whom I put away before thee. 16 And THINE HOUSE AND THY KINGDOM SHALL BE ESTABLISHED FOR EVER BEFORE THEE: THY THRONE SHALL BE ESTABLISHED FOR EVER."'"

17 According to all these words, and according to all this vision, so did Nathan speak unto David.

And, there is a SECOND witness to this Davidic Covenant!

1 Chronicles 17:3-15 (KJV)

3 And it came to pass the same night, that the word of God came to Nathan, saying, 

4 "Go and tell David my servant,

"'Thus saith the LORD,

"'"Thou shalt not build me an house to dwell in: 5 For I have not dwelt in an house since the day that I brought up Israel unto this day; but have gone from tent to tent, and from one tabernacle to another. 6 Wheresoever I have walked with all Israel, spake I a word to any of the judges of Israel, whom I commanded to feed my people, saying, 'Why have ye not built me an house of cedars?'

7 "Now therefore thus shalt thou say unto my servant David,

"'Thus saith the LORD of hosts,

"'"I took thee from the sheepcote, even from following the sheep, that thou shouldest be ruler over my people Israel: 8 And I have been with thee whithersoever thou hast walked, and have cut off all thine enemies from before thee, and have made thee a name like the name of the great men that are in the earth. 9 Also I will ordain a place for my people Israel, and will plant them, and they shall dwell in their place, and shall be moved no more; neither shall the children of wickedness waste them any more, as at the beginning, 10 And since the time that I commanded judges to be over my people Israel. Moreover I will subdue all thine enemies.

"'"Furthermore I tell thee that the LORD will build THEE an house. 11 And it shall come to pass, when thy days be expired that thou must go to be with thy fathers, that I WILL RAISE UP THY SEED AFTER THEE, WHICH SHALL BE OF THY SONS; AND I WILL ESTABLISH HIS KINGDOM. 12 HE SHALL BUILD ME AN HOUSE, AND I WILL STABLISH HIS THRONE FOR EVER. 13 I WILL BE HIS FATHER, AND HE SHALL BE MY SON: and I will not take my mercy away from him, as I took it from him that was before thee: 14 BUT I WILL SETTLE HIM IN MINE HOUSE AND IN MY KINGDOM FOR EVER: AND HIS THRONE SHALL BE ESTABLISHED FOR EVERMORE."'" 

15 According to all these words, and according to all this vision, so did Nathan speak unto David.

And, this was repeated succinctly to Miryam ("Mary") in Luke 1:30-33:

Luke 1:30-33 (KJV)

30 And the angel said unto her,

"Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God. 31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS. 32 He shall be great, and shall be called THE SON OF THE HIGHEST: and THE LORD GOD SHALL GIVE UNTO HIM THE THRONE OF HIS FATHER DAVID: 33 AND HE SHALL REIGN OVER THE HOUSE OF JACOB FOR EVER; AND OF HIS KINGDOM THERE SHALL BE NO END.

So, "in the mouths of 2 or 3 witnesses," so to speak, we've established God's plan, not only for Israel and the Messiah to be King, Yeshua`, but we've also seen that He SHALL be the Son of God! God didn't say He would be LIKE his Son; He said that He would BE His Son! But, notice the FUTURE tense! Yeshua` was the Word before His "incarnation" (actually, when He was MADE flesh, not "PUT IN flesh"); however, afterward He BECAME God's Son and the Word BECAME flesh at His conception and was called "Yeshua`" after His birth, as predicted before His birth! That's an important distinction to accept! From the point of His conception and onward, He BECAME the "Son of God!"

Yes. But what kept that from happening right then? I don't think one can say it was because of the Jewish people through whatever they did or didn't do. Seems obvious they failed in the tasks as assigned to them so they didn't do that. But why not deal with it then? It's not like that would have been a bad time to punish the Jews for their insolence and sloth. 

I get what you are saying but there must have been a reason to hold off at that time and wait for a better time. It looks to me as though it's the spread of the Gospel, the Commission. Seems like it's kinda the same thing as Dan 9:24

3 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Often, well-meaning Christians called Yeshua` "God," but He is always called at most "the SON of God." Why? It's because He gave up certain attributes of God when He was MADE flesh! He was LOCALIZED as a body! No longer was He "omnipresent."

He was no longer "omniscient"; there were certain things that only His Father, God the Father, would know, even though He was close to His Father and was shown what He needed to know.

“But about the Son He says, ‘Your throne, O God, will last forever and ever, and righteousness will be the scepter of your kingdom.’” - Hebrews 1

For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily - Colossians 2

 “I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.” - Rev 1

 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end.” - Rev 22

Forgive me if I don't concede.

3 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Yeshua` HIMSELF said,

Matthew 24:36 (KJV)

36 "But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only."

That could be explained as the burden of making the decision. Since Jesus and the Father are one and the same but also distinct there must be an order to things. 

"The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him..." - Rev 1

I have always taken Matt 24:36 to mean the Father makes the decision when and that statement doesn't diminish the fact of the fullness of the godhead dwelling in Jesus Christ, neither then or at any time.

3 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

But, as I said, it was the SON, Yeshua` haMashiyach (Yeshua` the Messiah or "Jesus the Christ"), who put the "gap" in time! Because of their rejection of Him as their King, Yeshua` also rejected THEM in that generation!

Matthew 23:37-39 (KJV)

37 "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not! 

38 "Behold, your house is left unto you DESOLATE! 39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, 'Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord!'"

Yes indeed.  This leaves me with a question as to why. It seems beyond belief they didn't call on the Lord in 70 AD. Or in 73-73 AD. Or from 1940-45. That would have been the moments to ask for help and deliverance. Maybe they did call on Him but He wouldn't listen. Maybe there was another reason for 'not slack but long suffering'. It feels as though abandonment is vindictive and less a plan than a reaction. 

In the OT the Jews rejected God as well. Didn't listen, worshipped false gods, killed the prophets, prophets like Jesus, and God never let them hang for two thousand years. And during the time the Jews were in the midst of their correction there was always the promise of salvation from troubles and generally a time limit which the prophets foretold.

So you could be right but it doesn't seem concrete to me. It's not a satisfying reason with any grand purpose behind it.   

3 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

I've shared this many times already, but this passage is a quotation from Psalm 118:26:

Psalm 118:22-26 (KJV)

22 The stone which the builders refused is become the head stone of the corner.
23 This is the LORD'S doing; it is marvellous in our eyes.
24 This is the day which the LORD hath made; we will rejoice and be glad in it.
25 Save now, I beseech thee, O LORD: O LORD, I beseech thee, send now prosperity.
26 Blessed be he that cometh in the name of the LORD: we have blessed you out of the house of the LORD.

And, what takes 11 words in English to say, the Hebrew uses 4 words:

26a Baruwkh haba' b-shem YHWH

26a Baruwkh = 26a Welcome
haba' = the-Comer
b-shem = in-[the]-name/on-[the]-authority
YHWH: = of-YHWH/of-the-LORD:

The masculine plural (used for a group of both masculine and feminine people) of the singular "Baruwkh haba'" is "Baruwkhiym haba'im" and is found at all the seaports and airports in Israel! It means "Welcome the-comers!" or "Welcome, travelers!" or "Welcome, visitors!"

So far, between Yeshua`s promise and the stubbornness of the Israeli people, THIS is what caused the "gap" of almost 2,000 years!

I should also add that Matthew 23:38 is a partial FULFILLMENT of Daniel 9:27!

Daniel 9:27 (KJV)

27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it DESOLATE, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Just to be clear I'm not denying the idea of the rejection of the Messiah. I have been guilty of rejecting what He clearly told me to do and I paid for it, so I get that in an empirical manner, but He never left me alone. Did I have to wait? Yes. Were there signs and encouragement? Yes. There has been a gap but never abandoned.

I feel the statement by Jesus in Matthew 24 and Mark 13 that the Gospel must be preached to all nations before the end comes is the reason for the long wait. That certainly could not, and did not, happen overnight. Many years ago I looked into how many languages into which the Bible had been translated. There is a group that tracks such thing and they estimated there were about 200 at that time that didn't haver the NT. 

Recently I have heard there are a few isolated people groups in hard to access areas that have not yet been given a copy in their language. So as hard as it is to fathom there are people who not heard about salvation through Christ. I was engaged with a pro choice atheist not long age who claimed they did not know the name of Jesus and wanted to keep it that way. A lie of course, but not for everyone.

"And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come." - Matt 24

This is what is holding off the beginning of the end of man's governance of the earth. 

[Diaste]

10 hours ago, Charlie744 said:

Ok... there is ONLY ONE THING TO DO.... ONLY ONE THING AND IT NEVER FAILS REGARDLESS OF THE PROBLEM OR ISSUE....

PUT SOME BACON ON IT!   IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT THE PROBLEM IS... WHETHER YOUR CAR BROKE DOWN, YOU DOG MESSED ON THE CARPET, YOU JUST GOT A NOTICE FROM THE IRS YOU WILL SOON HAVE AN AUDIT.... IT DOESN'T MATTER.... GO IMMEDIATELY TO THE STORE AND BUY AS MUCH BACON AS YOU CAN.... COOK IT UP AND START TO EAT.

WORKS EVERY TIME AND NEVER FAILS.... THERE IS NOTHING THAT BACON CAN NOT CURE!  YOU WILL THEN SEE THE SCRIPTURES LIKE YOU NEVER SAW THEM BEFORE.... THAT IS HOW I DO IT..... I LOVE BACON.... BUT WHO DOESN'T.

Now, after you have eaten I would ask you to take one of the 6 at at time and respond why you believe it was not fulfilled by the Messiah in the last week of Daniel's 70 week prophecy....... 

ps. please ensure you have enough bacon to cook between each of the 6 requirements... and be prepared to put on some serious weight... but it  is good weight.

Charlie

Bacon or not...

"Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people {NOT Jesus} and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, {What transgression did Jesus commit?} and to make an end of sins,{When did sin end?} and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness,{Are you saying we are in everlasting righteousness?} and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy. {Did Jesus annoint himself?}"

The 70 weeks are the burden of the people. The tasks assigned are also the burden of the people. The people of Daniel are 'to finish', 'to make', 'to bring', 'to seal'. Jesus is never mentioned here.