Defense of the Pre Trib Rapture

[Uriah]

Just now, OldCoot said:

There is the attire of being ready for the groom when He comes for her.  The bride must always be ready. It is the righteousness that only comes from the redemption of Yeshua.    Then there is the the attire of the bride who is now the wife of Yeshua after they emerge from the Chuppah to the wedding feast and both rule and reign as one on the earth.   The bride has not been with the groom on a test period to see if it will work out and then she is considered righteous.  The marriage has been consummated during the 7 years. The groom and bride are now one flesh.  They are one in terms of ruling the earth as per Revelation 2:26-27.

Another dodge!

How does she get her new attire AT THE END (Rev. 19)  if she has already been there 7 yrs?

[OldCoot]

22 minutes ago, Uriah said:

Another dodge!

How does she get her new attire AT THE END (Rev. 19)  if she has already been there 7 yrs?

Ok.  Go with that if it helps you to sleep at night.   I am solidly pre-trib and have been since 1967, long before some might call it cool.  Just like I was a country boy long before is was cool.   No dodges.  No apologies.  No worries.  It is not a condition of salvation, even though some try to make it out that way.  If you don't buy it, that is ok. I am not selling it.  Each is free to pick and choose on eschatological issues.  

And those of us who are pre-trib will be happy to explain it on the way up.  All who are redeemed will be be included.  Unlike some, we have no problem with those who don't agree with it coming along for the ride.  After it happens, in all likelihood we will not really bring up the differences or arguments.  All that matters is being with Yeshua.  

[Uriah]

1 minute ago, OldCoot said:

Ok.  Go with that if it helps you to sleep at night.   I am solidly pre-trib and have been since 1967, long before some might call it cool.  Just like I was a country boy long before is was cool.   No dodges.  No apologies.  No worries.  It is not a condition of salvation, even though some try to make it out that way.  If you don't buy it, that is ok. I am not selling it.  Each is free to pick and choose on eschatological issues.  

And those of us who are pre-trib will be happy to explain it on the way up.  All who are redeemed will be be included.  Unlike some, we have no problem with those who don't agree with it coming along for the ride.  After it happens, in all likelihood we will not really bring up the differences or arguments.  All that matters is being with Yeshua.  

OK Coot, no problem. 

 As promised I will now address your other point on the Jewish wedding teaching. 

Can you provide an ancient source for its claims? It has to be two decades now and I haven't seen any pre trib believer post it so far. (is that because it does  not exist?)

Edited June 29, 2019 by Uriah
added word 'seen"

[Diaste]

"Each is free to pick and choose on eschatological issues."

The above statement is true only at great peril.

"I testify to everyone who hears the words of prophecy in this book: If anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book. And if anyone takes away from the words of this book of prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book." -Rev 22

Pretrib both adds and subtracts.

[OldCoot]

47 minutes ago, Uriah said:

OK Coot, no problem. 

 As promised I will now address your other point on the Jewish wedding teaching. 

Can you provide an ancient source for its claims? It has to be two decades now and I haven't seen any pre trib believer post it so far. (is that because it does  not exist?)

I already pointed you to Alfred Edersheim who wrote “Life And Times of Jesus the Messiah”.  Also Arnold Fruchtenbaum who has written extensively on the issue.  Both believers and each PHD scholars.

[Uriah]

1 hour ago, OldCoot said:

I already pointed you to Alfred Edersheim who wrote “Life And Times of Jesus the Messiah”.  Also Arnold Fruchtenbaum who has written extensively on the issue.  Both believers and each PHD scholars.

Hi Coot, 

You pointed to authors I well know of. Essentially you have a claim of others making a claim. The book you of which posted has NO ancient source of the Jewish wedding scenario taught by pre trib teachers. It merely refers to Talmudic writings without specifics and then turns around and calls them "Rabbinic perversions". The same will be found concerning Jewish encyclopedias, more of the practice of authors who quote other authors, and the circular reasoning continues.

[Dennis1209]

5 hours ago, Uriah said:

I am doing no such thing.

You seem intelligent enough to understand my question, (many others who have been asked this understand it) but you immediately go off topic.

Let me try once again: IT IS ABOUT THE TIMING. Rev 19 shows the bride being given her new attire. It is at the time when Jesus is in the sky on the white horse. Pre trib demands that 7 yrs earlier the bride should have already acquired such garment. This also falsifies pre trib because one cannot "enter in" without the proper garment, and it is shown being granted/given at the END, not before. 

Another way to look at it is; currently we're clothed in corruptible sinful flesh. At the "pretribulation Rapture", our glorified bodies will be clothed with incorruptible flesh. During this "time' of the seven year tribulation; my view is a lot is going to occur in Heaven. The Bema seat where our works are going to be tried by fire and we will be giving an account of our lives. We will be given our rewards; the marriage of the Lamb, the marriage supper, etc. As in Old Testament times, a robe seems to be symbolic of power (white representing purity), an identification with someone or something if you will. Could our white robes be part of our rewards and identification, such as with the possible crowns we could receive? 

I'm not stating this matter-of-factly, but just my belief and views.

Edited June 29, 2019 by Dennis1209

[Uriah]

Just now, Dennis1209 said:

Another way to look at it is; currently we're clothed in corruptible sinful flesh. At the "pretribulation Rapture", our glorified bodies will be clothed with incorruptible flesh. During this "time' of the seven year tribulation; my view is a lot is going to occur in Heaven. The Bema seat where our works are going to be tried by fire and we will be giving an account of our lives. We will be given our rewards; the marriage of the Lamb, the marriage supper, etc. As in Old Testament times, a robe seems to be symbolic of power (white representing purity), an identification with someone or something if you will. Could our white robes be part of our rewards and identification, such as with the possible crowns we could receive? 

I'm not stating this matter-of-factly, but just my belief and views.

Hi Dennis1209,

Thanks for your input. I agree that the garment/robe is the new body. this can ONLY happen at the rapture, according to Paul. And as I have stated, pre trib has failed to answer how those are saven AFTER the pre trib rapture will be able to get into heaven. there are only 2 resurrections, 1,000 yrs apart. Yet we see those FROM the great trib. who have resisted the mark etc. in Rev. 20:4 who will reign for the same 1,1000 yrs. And there is only ONE rapture ever found in scripture. Pre trib is impossible.

[OldCoot]

23 minutes ago, Uriah said:

Hi Coot, 

You pointed to authors I well know of. Essentially you have a claim of others making a claim. The book you of which posted has NO ancient source of the Jewish wedding scenario taught by pre trib teachers. It merely refers to Talmudic writings without specifics and then turns around and calls them "Rabbinic perversions". The same will be found concerning Jewish encyclopedias, more of the practice of authors who quote other authors, and the circular reasoning continues.

No, they thoroughly document their research.  It is disingenuous for you to make such accusations.  What is it about folks that they feel the need to make personal attacks when they don’t agree with something.

you are going to have to deal with someone making a “claim” unless you get in a time machine and go back 2000 years and get first hand experience.   

You are just being contentious and have no interest in useful dialogue.  You didn’t win the argument, you just disqualified yourself.

[Uriah]

Just now, OldCoot said:

No, they thoroughly document their research.  It is disingenuous for you to make such accusations.  What is it about folks that they feel the need to make personal attacks when they don’t agree with something.

you are going to have to deal with someone making a “claim” unless you get in a time machine and go back 2000 years and get first hand experience.   

You are just being contentious and have no interest in useful dialogue.  You didn’t win the argument, you just disqualified yourself.

Coot,

I haven't seen it. I am sure you can post the evidence. The book you referenced is online, maybe you have a pager number? I maintain that I have not seen it posted  by pre trib believers. C'mon bro, break the long spell.