The Great Tribulation Will Be Upon The Antichrist And Wicked, The Sealed Church Is Protected, Dont Be Deceived

[The Light]

On 1/7/2022 at 3:50 AM, Diaste said:

All the same, it's what is there. Wrath stands alone and that is only in the bowls as they alone are designated as the wrath of God; and that wrath cometh with the portent of the 6th seal and meted after the sounding of the 7th angel. 

It's not that I don't see it, I understand. I see the evidence stack up for a different conclusion. 

Let me get this right. You know that it is absolutely impossible for the first trumpet to sound until the 7th seal is opened. And you are going to believe that the 7 seals and the 7 trumpets happen at the same time? It's impossible. I don't know what to say. Aren't you seeking the truth? 

Rev 8

1 And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour.

2 And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets.

3 And another angel came and stood at the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given unto him much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne.

4 And the smoke of the incense, which came with the prayers of the saints, ascended up before God out of the angel's hand.

5 And the angel took the censer, and filled it with fire of the altar, and cast it into the earth: and there were voices, and thunderings, and lightnings, and an earthquake.

6 And the seven angels which had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound.

On 1/7/2022 at 3:50 AM, Diaste said:

Joel is key testimony. All the green grass burned up and the trees scorched when the A of D has occurred. Trump #1 would then have sounded at around the time of the midpoint. I think it's inescapable. 

What are you talking about midpoint? The verses in Joel occur at the 6th seal. The bridegroom comes out of his chamber. This is the rapture of the 12 tribes across the earth at the 6th seal. 

Joel 2

16 Gather the people, sanctify the congregation, assemble the elders, gather the children, and those that suck the breasts: let the bridegroom go forth of his chamber, and the bride out of her closet.

17 Let the priests, the ministers of the Lord, weep between the porch and the altar, and let them say, Spare thy people, O Lord, and give not thine heritage to reproach, that the heathen should rule over them: wherefore should they say among the people, Where is their God?

18 Then will the Lord be jealous for his land, and pity his people.

19 Yea, the Lord will answer and say unto his people, Behold, I will send you corn, and wine, and oil, and ye shall be satisfied therewith: and I will no more make you a reproach among the heathen:

Here is one of the many things that you don't understand. You think that the sealing of the 144,000 occurs AFTER the sixth seal, because the sixth seal happens and then the 144,000 are sealed in Rev 7. You think that the 144,000 are sealed so they can go through the wrath of God because of this verse.

Rev 9

4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.

The fact is those 144,000 are already in heaven BEFORE the gathering of Rev 7, which occurs at the 6th seal. I'm not going to waste my time trying to explain this unless you request it. The fact that you can't see that it is impossible for the seals and trumpets to occur at the same time despite scriptural evidence, means that I would be wasting my time explaining this.

 

On 1/7/2022 at 3:50 AM, Diaste said:

I find it odd that all the mountains and islands "was moved from its place" then later "every island fled and no mountain could be found". This would necessitate putting it all back where it was so it could all flee and not be found. 

Semantics ain't gonna change this.

You are leaning on a false conclusion, to prop up the FACT that you are denying clear scriptural evidence that the seal and trumpets cannot happen at the same time.

So, you find it odd that the mountains and islands are moved and later cannot be found. You think there is a requirement for the mountains and islands to be put back before they can be moved again>

Two people are playing checkers at the town festival. A man is walking by and is watching the game as he walks. He is not watching where he is walking and stumbles and bumps the chess board. And every black checker and every red checker is moved out of their places. Right after that, someone that has celebrated too much comes stumbling by, falls and knocks the board off it table and every red checker fled, and no black checkers could be found.

Was there a requirement that the checkers had to be put back in their place before the drunk could stumble by and knock over the board? Neither is there a requirement that the islands and mountains need to be put back.

As I said, you are using bad logic to overrule clear scriptural evidence. Why?

[Alive]

Some folks think various sections of Rev. are recapitualizations of events depicted. Given so much symbolism and lack of sureness of language and meaning..I find that notion as likely as another.

[Montana Marv]

First look at Jerusalem.  It will be the primary mountain when Christ rules. For this to take place all other mountains must loose height. For all nations to be part of the  Feast of Tabernacles they must walk. No islands. Just one large landmass. As it was with the Garden of  Eden. Water flowed out and formed 4 river systems.

Read again. One landmass as with the Garden. Back to the basics. 

In Christ

Montana Marv 

[Diaste]

On 1/9/2022 at 8:21 AM, The Light said:

Let me get this right. You know that it is absolutely impossible for the first trumpet to sound until the 7th seal is opened. And you are going to believe that the 7 seals and the 7 trumpets happen at the same time? It's impossible. I don't know what to say. Aren't you seeking the truth? 

I didn't say that. I meant that I understand you and your point. You seemed to think I didn't understand what you are pointing out. I do understand. I'm saying the conclusion is wrong.

On 1/9/2022 at 8:21 AM, The Light said:

Rev 8

1 And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour.

2 And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets.

3 And another angel came and stood at the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given unto him much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne.

4 And the smoke of the incense, which came with the prayers of the saints, ascended up before God out of the angel's hand.

5 And the angel took the censer, and filled it with fire of the altar, and cast it into the earth: and there were voices, and thunderings, and lightnings, and an earthquake.

6 And the seven angels which had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound.

Right. But this doesn't say when they begin to sound. It's an assumption that the angels only begin to sound now as the depiction of the angels with trumps and preparing to sound follows the 7th seal in the text. In no way is it demanded by the text then angels can only and ever sound at this point in time and space.

John says, "And I saw..." no time stamp. I could be the 7 trumps only and ever follow the 7th seal but that would have to be determined from other evidence as there isn't proof positive from Rev 8:1-6

John is saying he looked upon, perceived, discerned, the angels with the trumps and the preparation to sound, not showing a succession immediately after the 7th seal. When the angels do begin to sound we know it's an order of succession as we see 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and so on. 

When the 1st angel sounds the language is pretty clear.

"The first angel sounded, and there followed", which is 'kai ginomai', which is literally 'also emerged', 'and came about', 'even become'. John didn't use this language in 8:2. Her could have. But he didn't. So we have an example of a language of immediate succession and cause and effect in Rev 8:7, but that sort of language does not appear in 8:2.

So...not proof here the trumps must only, and never at any other time, be sounded except for after the 7th seal.

 

On 1/9/2022 at 8:21 AM, The Light said:

What are you talking about midpoint? The verses in Joel occur at the 6th seal. The bridegroom comes out of his chamber. This is the rapture of the 12 tribes across the earth at the 6th seal. 

Joel 1

8 Wail like a virgin dressed in sackcloth,

grieving for the husband of her youth.

9 Grain and drink offerings have been cut off

from the house of the LORD;

the priests are in mourning,

those who minister before the LORD.

 

13 Come, spend the night in sackcloth,

O ministers of my God,

because the grain and drink offerings

are withheld from the house of your God.

This is what Daniel describes in the 9th chapter:

" but in the middle of the week he will put an end to sacrifice and offering."

Joel also says the day of the Lord is near when the grain and drink offering is cut off and in the same breath:

"

Alas for the day!

For the Day of the LORD is near,

and it will come

as destruction from the Almighty.b

Has not the food been cut off

before our very eyes—

joy and gladness

from the house of our God?

 

 

On 1/9/2022 at 8:21 AM, The Light said:

Here is one of the many things that you don't understand. You think that the sealing of the 144,000 occurs AFTER the sixth seal, because the sixth seal happens and then the 144,000 are sealed in Rev 7.

I don't make any unequivocal statements about the when or where the 144,000 fit into the timeline, because I don't know. 

On 1/9/2022 at 8:21 AM, The Light said:

You think that the 144,000 are sealed so they can go through the wrath of God because of this verse.

I do not. But I also do not see the entire last week as wrath. There are 2 major sections to the last 7 years: 1st half and 2nd half.

In the 2nd half there are 2 major sections; GT and wrath.

I don't see the whole of the last 7 years as wrath as there is no biblical justification for it. Jesus Himself said GT only begins at the time the A of D stands where it should not be. Equating the whole of the 70th week with wrath is a misconception. This single misconception throws any timeline developed with this in view into chaos.

On 1/9/2022 at 8:21 AM, The Light said:

The fact is those 144,000 are already in heaven BEFORE the gathering of Rev 7, which occurs at the 6th seal.

You mean except for the biblical fact a trump has to sound at the appearance of Jesus and the Gathering? And it has to be a last trump? And the only last trump associated with the appearance of Jesus and the Gathering and the end of the age is the 7th trump of Revelation? 

 

On 1/9/2022 at 8:21 AM, The Light said:

I'm not going to waste my time trying to explain this unless you request it. The fact that you can't see that it is impossible for the seals and trumpets to occur at the same time despite scriptural evidence, means that I would be wasting my time explaining this.

That's fair.

 

On 1/9/2022 at 8:21 AM, The Light said:

You are leaning on a false conclusion, to prop up the FACT that you are denying clear scriptural evidence that the seal and trumpets cannot happen at the same time.

Evidence of a negative does not exist by nature. You would have to show positive evidence of the trumps occurring in the timeline where you believer them to occur. Just saying it's impossible isn't evidence. Where is a direct statement of such a prohibition, or indirect statement by which we can deduce the idea of 'cannot occur'?

On 1/9/2022 at 8:21 AM, The Light said:

So, you find it odd that the mountains and islands are moved and later cannot be found. You think there is a requirement for the mountains and islands to be put back before they can be moved again>

Yes. Very odd. 

On 1/9/2022 at 8:21 AM, The Light said:

Two people are playing checkers at the town festival. A man is walking by and is watching the game as he walks. He is not watching where he is walking and stumbles and bumps the chess board. And every black checker and every red checker is moved out of their places. Right after that, someone that has celebrated too much comes stumbling by, falls and knocks the board off it table and every red checker fled, and no black checkers could be found.

Was there a requirement that the checkers had to be put back in their place before the drunk could stumble by and knock over the board? Neither is there a requirement that the islands and mountains need to be put back.

By this analogy there would have to be two moments where the islands and mountains were disrupted from location or existence. The one event occurs when Jesus arrives and wrath in imminent. The second one then would also have to occur by the might of Christ. Is this what we see in scripture? Two Comings? Both with and in the wrath of God and the Lamb? 

We aren't talking about clumsy people and stumbling drunks. 

 

On 1/9/2022 at 8:21 AM, The Light said:

As I said, you are using bad logic to overrule clear scriptural evidence. Why?

Just because you dislike it doesn't mean it's bad or wrong. 

[truth7t7]

42 minutes ago, Diaste said:

I do not. But I also do not see the entire last week as wrath. There are 2 major sections to the last 7 years: 1st half and 2nd half.

In the 2nd half there are 2 major sections; GT and wrath.

I don't see the whole of the last 7 years as wrath as there is no biblical justification for it. Jesus Himself said GT only begins at the time the A of D stands where it should not be. Equating the whole of the 70th week with wrath is a misconception. This single misconception throws any timeline developed with this in view into chaos.

You mean except for the biblical fact a trump has to sound at the appearance of Jesus and the Gathering? And it has to be a last trump? And the only last trump associated with the appearance of Jesus and the Gathering and the end of the age is the 7th trump of Revelation? 

 

That's fair.

 

Evidence of a negative does not exist by nature. You would have to show positive evidence of the trumps occurring in the timeline where you believer them to occur. Just saying it's impossible isn't evidence. Where is a direct statement of such a prohibition, or indirect statement by which we can deduce the idea of 'cannot occur'?

Yes. Very odd. 

By this analogy there would have to be two moments where the islands and mountains were disrupted from location or existence. The one event occurs when Jesus arrives and wrath in imminent. The second one then would also have to occur by the might of Christ. Is this what we see in scripture? Two Comings? Both with and in the wrath of God and the Lamb? 

We aren't talking about clumsy people and stumbling drunks. 

 

Just because you dislike it doesn't mean it's bad or wrong. 

I dont see a 7 year tribulation, it's my observation that Revelation 11:3 & Revelation 13:5 are parallel times representing 3.5 years?

[debrakay]

On 12/26/2021 at 3:22 PM, truth7t7 said:

No need to watch another man's interpretation on youtube, it's in my hands in writing, the good ole King James Version

I felt a nudge to respond.  Here I am this morning reading 13 pages of month old comments, thoughts, opinions, and rebuttal from all of the posters on this thread.  I did not have to watch a YouTube interpretation when I was reading all of this interpretation (though I would and do at times).  The Holy Spirit can move upon the hearts and spirits of His people in any way and any format He deems usable. It's up to us to have ears to hear and eyes to see what He is doing and saying/explaining to His children. 

It seems to me all 13 pages of this thread are the interpretations of the poster via the Holy Spirit.  Each person, each mind, each spirit can and will receive whatever He deems necessary or of value to each separate individual.  

Ephesians 4:14-16 - that we should no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness of deceitful plotting, but, speaking the truth in love, may grow up in all things into Him who is the head—Christ— from whom the whole body, joined and knit together by what every joint supplies, according to the effective working by which every part does its share, causes growth of the body for the edifying of itself in love.

Thank you for allowing me to add my one cent. 

[truth7t7]

44 minutes ago, Walter Goraj jr said:

Ah my friend, if you are looking for physical events to fulfill spiritual prophecy.  Did you ever ask yourself what God is most concerned with in this world? It's His people, of course. His promise and purpose is to guide His elect through the  tribulation of this world ( in all of it's history), but most profoundly in the great spiritual tribulation at the end of this world. 

Why is it a time like no other? Because God will allow satan to have his " little season" (of Holy Spirit void) rule of this world,  as believers we will be here for sure, for it will be God's last time to refine  His people.  

Wow, that would be like claiming Moses and Aaron in Egypt, bringing plagues upon Pharaoh and his kingdom was just a symbolic metaphor?

The two Witnesses seen in Revelation 11 will be a reality, literal prophets returned, bringing literal plagues, upon a literal world plus some, a remake of Moses/Aaron against Pharaoh of Egypt, and representing my Lord Jesus Christ on this earth Amen

Revelation 11:3-6KJV

3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth. 4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth. 5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed. 6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.

Edited January 13, 2022 by truth7t7

[truth7t7]

2 hours ago, Walter Goraj jr said:

You stated: "Wow, that would be like claiming Moses and Aaron in Egypt, bringing plagues upon Pharaoh and his kingdom was just a symbolic metaphor?"

Obviously that literally happened.  But as with many historical events in the Bible, they usually illustrate certain spiritual meanings. In other words the Bible is very dualistic in nature. The question is: can you the reader discern that?

Now of course there are those who believe that you witness has to be to actual people but I see them as a representation of God's earthly  messengers of His kingdom, which began with the prophets in Israel and continues with confessing christians to this day. "Fire" or the judgment of God's word proceeds out of their mouth. That they will be spiritually "killed"during the Great Tribulation, symbolically represented as "three and a half days". Oh, and they will stand upon their feet to be caught up with Christ at His glorious appearing on the last day.

 

Thanks for the response George!

I disagree with your symbolic allegory regarding the (Two Witnesses) seen in Revelation 11

As previously explained, I believe scripture clearly teaches the Two Witnesses will bring literal plagues upon a literal world, they will have literal bodies that die, lay in a literal street of Jerusalem, as a literal world watches in celebration

It's going to be a literal replay of Moses/Aaron against Pharaoh of Egypt 

In Love, Jesus Is The Lord

[Joulre2abba]

On 12/24/2021 at 11:13 AM, AdHoc said:

Our Lord does not burst from the clouds like lightening for the Church. He comes like a thief and we are caught away to meet Him there.

An occasion that is like lightening does not mean that there will be literal light involved. But lightening cannot be determined beforehand where or when it will occur.

In the rapture of the Church, Jesus will not come as a thief. A thief is an unexpected robber. Read Revelation about the church at Sardis. To them he comes like a thief because they are not prepared. Let us not associate ourselves with them.

But the Church-Bride of Christ expects Jesus to come for us. He is our Blessed Hope. Another word for hope is joyous expectation.

We just don't know exactly when he will come. So it will be like lightening.

[JoeCanada]

1 hour ago, Joulre2abba said:

An occasion that is like lightening does not mean that there will be literal light involved. But lightening cannot be determined beforehand where or when it will occur.

In the rapture of the Church, Jesus will not come as a thief. A thief is an unexpected robber. Read Revelation about the church at Sardis. To them he comes like a thief because they are not prepared. Let us not associate ourselves with them.

But the Church-Bride of Christ expects Jesus to come for us. He is our Blessed Hope. Another word for hope is joyous expectation.

We just don't know exactly when he will come. So it will be like lightening.

Hi J,

That is right.... He will come like a thief to those who are not expecting Him, the unsaved.

1 Thessalonians 5:2

"For you yourselves know full well that the day of the Lord will come just like a thief in the night."