Heaven

[Marilyn C]

8 hours ago, Alive said:

My picture of the eternal state is some different perhaps--maybe not.

I am convinced that we will all be very busy working alongside our Lord.

His vast universe is not to be wasted....Star Trek---move aside, the sons of the most high have arrived.

I agree Alive,

God is Creator and has not ever come to the end of His ability and power to create. I believe we, as the Body of Christ will be involved in creating, operating, managing, etc the vast new universal heavens. 

With a glorified body that can go through dimensions, an increased mental capacity, and a pure and holy character, we will be ever glorifying the Lord, and extolling His wondrous new works that unfold in the age upon age upon age before us.

Giftings and abilities will be used to work in harmony as we learn more of the Lord`s purposes that ever reveal Him and the beauty of His glorious character. 

Amazing, wonderful, unbelievable, stupendous, words can not express the magnificent inheritance that awaits us. 

Oh glorious day.....

Marilyn. 

 

[Marathoner]

On 2/18/2022 at 11:16 AM, Starise said:

It's amazing how many Christians plan on going there, look forward to it, but have no idea about what it really is.

Little wonder since we see darkly and know only in part, my friend. That truth is central to this discussion.

Consider the following passage written by the apostle of Jesus Christ:

But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in our wrongdoings, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, so that in the ages to come He might show the boundless riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. (Ephesians 2:4-7 NASB)

We're seated with Christ in the heavenly places right now. This sheds new light upon "seeing darkly and knowing only in part," yes? 

Yes.  

[Starise]

11 hours ago, Marathoner said:

We're seated with Christ in the heavenly places right now.

I'm sitting in a ten year old office chair right now.

[Retrobyter]

On 2/18/2022 at 1:47 PM, missmuffet said:

Heaven is a place that all true believers in Jesus Christ will go. The cartoons we see in this world show people on clouds and strumming harps in heaven but heaven will be very different than what this world sees. Many have asked

"Where is heaven?"

 

Shalom, missmuffet.

What do you answer them?

[Retrobyter]

On 2/20/2022 at 10:15 AM, Starise said:

Some great thoughts here from everyone on Heaven.

Apparently calling it 'heaven' is a more recent coined term. Not sure exactly when it came about?

To call the place the New Jerusalem probably sounds wonderful to anyone who was raised in Jerusalem or has roots from there. To me it sounds overly Jewish and not as attractive to a person who might have some Jewish ( is Jaggi Jewish?) I don't really know and it probably doesn't matter. I have felt much much more Gentile when I approach the scriptures and even feel discomfort in saying "Shalom" like I see some here say often. I AM NOT a Jew is any sense I know or am aware of, nor are many others who are belivers......................so why call a city by an old Jewish association when said city is supposed to house the entire population of those who came to Christ both Jews and gentiles?  This is why I like "celestial city" or "Holy City" better coming from a Gentile perspective. I mean, if it's a place for all of us, then let's make it a place for all of us.

Shalom, Starise.

I believe that's because the Scriptures have been re-written to get the "Jewishness" out of them, but since the First Century, it has been a Jewish concept! It is predominantly Jewish because - let's face it - the Messiah Yeshua` was and still is a JEW! He is prophesied to be the Seed of David in the Davidic Covenant, and He will be the King of the Jews, the King of Israel, and the King of kings, which means a "World Emperor." We are saved through His blood - JEWISH blood - that was shed for us on the cross, when He became our "sins" and died as them on that cross. In essence, we are adopted into HIS family, and thus, we, too, become Jews through Him!

Oh, and I looked it up and found this: From www.ancestry.com,

Quote

Indian (Panjab): Hindu (Hazari) and Sikh name of unknown meaning. South German and Swiss German (also Jäggi): from a pet form of Jacob. Compare Jaeckel. Where is the Jaggi family from? You can see how Jaggi families moved over time by selecting different census years. The Jaggi family name was found in the USA, and the UK between 1880 and 1920.

So, yes, the name can be Jewish, depending on from where one comes.

On 2/20/2022 at 10:15 AM, Starise said:

I'll be honest, Jewish culture kinda creeps me out. Men with weird curls down the sides of their heads and strange tall hats.

This is just an idiosyncrasy of a particular group of Jews (Orthodox), but not all Jews are like that. In fact, many Jews here in the U.S. don't even wear beards anymore! That doesn't change their heritage.

On 2/20/2022 at 10:15 AM, Starise said:

The total denial of Christ Jesus.

This is very unfortunate, and I believe that it is the FAULT of the Christians that they've stayed blind to their OWN Messiah so long! Paul told us,

Romans 11:28-32 (KJV)

28 As concerning the gospel, they (the Jews) are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes. 29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance. (I.e., God doesn't renege on His gifts or calling.) 30 For as ye (Roman Gentiles) in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief: 31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy. 32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

So, we should be telling them about their Messiah that God may extend mercy to them as well!

This is ONE THING that keeps the Messiah from returning, for He said,

Matthew 24:14 (KJV)

14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

We've been teaching and preaching about the "death, burial, and resurrection of our Lord," but we've NEGLECTED the "Gospel of the Kingdom," which is what John the Baptist and our Lord taught! And, I find that is because many don't even KNOW what that "Gospel" is!

It's found succinctly in Isaiah 52:

Isaiah 52:7 (KJV)

7 How beautiful upon the mountains are the feet of him that bringeth good tidings, that publisheth peace; that bringeth good tidings of good, that publisheth salvation; that saith unto Zion, "Thy God reigneth!"

THAT'S the Gospel that our Lord heralded, and THAT is the Gospel that Paul held, as well:

Romans 10:14-15 (KJV)

14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? 15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written,

"How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!"

Paul just added to the Gospel the facts that he pointed out in 1 Corinthians 15:

1 Corinthians 15:1-11 (KJV)

1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; 2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; 4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: 5 And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve: 6 After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep. 7 After that, he was seen of James; then of all the apostles. 8 And last of all he was seen of me also, as of one born out of due time. 9 For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. 10 But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me. 11 Therefore whether it were I or they, so we preach, and so ye believed.

And, don't forget John's words:

1 John 5:1 (KJV)

1 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ (the Messiah) is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.

We've been really good about preaching the "death, burial, and resurrection of the Messiah Yeshua` (Jesus the Christ)," but we've been NEGLIGENT about preaching the "Gospel of the KINGDOM!" In fact, we've hardly begun to preach it!

On 2/20/2022 at 10:15 AM, Starise said:

Putting the new city in that wrapper is just odd to me. I have nothing against Jewish people. I'm just trying to wrap my head around the extent the Jewishness is going to pervade in the new city. It might take some adjustment for me who might still feel like an outsider.

Perhaps, but you don't have to feel that way. As I said, Yeshua` was not only a Jew, He still IS a Jew! He is not only a Jew, but He is their KING, and He will be the King of all Israel, when He returns! He is not only a Jew, but He was a "good Jew" in the sense that He kept ALL of the Law! He never even KNEW sin! He offered sacrifices! He kept the Jewish holy days! He made the pilgrimages to Jerusalem as required in the Law! He was ceremonially PURE! Only the religious leaders at the time had a problem with Him, and that was because He challenged their power and authority! He hit them in their pocketbooks!

You do understand that one of the names of the twelve Tribes of Israel will be on each of the twelve gates to the city, right? And, the names of the Apostles will be in the foundations of the city, and each of the twelve Apostles were children of Israel, too, right?

All the same, this will be your Father's house, and you will have a "room/mansion" in it. It will be your HOME! And, the New Earth will be your BACKYARD! You're not an "outsider"; YOU are "accepted in the Beloved!"

On 2/20/2022 at 10:15 AM, Starise said:

If I went to Jerusalem today I would stick out like a sore thumb and probably feel out of place...know what I mean? In fact it probably wouldn't be the first place I would want to visit if I could go anywhere in the world. I adopted Jesus or Jesus adopted me and hopefully I didn't sign on for a culture conversion.

Ah, but it's a great place to learn about the history of your Savior! It should stir you to walk where Yeshua` ("Jesus") walked, to stand where Yeshua` stood, to follow the path He walked on His way to the cross! You can take a boat out onto Lake Kinneret, the "Sea of Galilee!" You can swim in the Jordan River, where Yeshua` was baptized by Yochanan ("John")! One can even be baptized there, if one wishes! One can visit the Garden Tomb where it is believed our Lord was buried and rose again! One can visit the towns in which Yeshua` lived and performed His miracles: Nazareth, Kfar-Nachum ("Capernahum"), Beit-Lechem ("Bethlehem"), and more. One can read the words of Yeshua` that He spoke on the mount where He gave the beatitudes. Jerusalem is not just within the walls anymore; it is now a thriving, modern city that is far bigger than the Old City. You'd fit in okay; the city's economy is largely supplied by tourism!

On 2/20/2022 at 10:15 AM, Starise said:

No more tears- It seems the Lord will have a way of helping us to move past all of the bad because the good will be so utterly good!

To me it seems as if the new city will maybe be more of a command post, a capital of earth than a new earth in itself. If the new city is ON the earth or hovering AROUND the earth, this would makes sense. I don't read of a non existence of earth, I read of something that looks more like a joining to me. Neither can I be sure we are all in a 1400 mile square confinement. Maybe we never want to leave? After a few thousand years that 1400 miles might seem awfully small. But then again, maybe not. I don't really know. Men seem to be made to explore and visit other places. Will we be in a 14000 mile cage? I don't think the bible is very clear on this.

I don't want to get away from Jesus. Maybe we can take Him with us.

Yes, the New Jerusalem is 1,380 miles high, wide, and long. It's one thing to SAY that; it's quite another to UNDERSTAND that! This is about the distance from Tampa, FL, to Augusta, ME! And, it's a little shorter than the distance from Tampa, FL, to Santa Fe, NM! We're talking about a HUGE square area! It's so huge, that the curvature of the earth must be considered in taking its measurements! Drawings and paintings representing the New Jerusalem NEVER seem to do it justice! Even my avatar, which I have as a wallpaper on my computer, is a feeble attempt to envision this city! I really don't think you'll have any problem with it seeming awfully small.😁

Yeshua` is called "the Sun of righteousness" in Malachi 4:2, and I LOVE the verse in Isaiah 24:23:

Isaiah 24:23 (KJV)

23 Then the moon shall be confounded (mixed up), and the sun ashamed (outdone), when the LORD of hosts shall reign in mount Zion, and in Jerusalem, and before his ancients gloriously.

Although the city will have no need of the sun or the moon, the rest of the earth will, and we don't lose these luminaries. They will be there forever! However, Yeshua` is said to "outshine the sun!" Imagine how the moon's phases will reflect the light from both the throne of the New Jerusalem and also the sun in the sky! We'll see some interesting crescents criss-crossing!

[Starise]

7 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, Starise.

I believe that's because the Scriptures have been re-written to get the "Jewishness" out of them, but since the First Century, it has been a Jewish concept! It is predominantly Jewish because - let's face it - the Messiah Yeshua` was and still is a JEW! He is prophesied to be the Seed of David in the Davidic Covenant, and He will be the King of the Jews, the King of Israel, and the King of kings, which means a "World Emperor." We are saved through His blood - JEWISH blood - that was shed for us on the cross, when He became our "sins" and died as them on that cross. In essence, we are adopted into HIS family, and thus, we, too, become Jews through Him!

Oh, and I looked it up and found this: From www.ancestry.com,

Shalom, Howdy, Good Day and Hello back at ya there @Retrobyter 

I want to apologize to anyone here who is Jewish. After I read my comments, they seemed a bit harsh towards Jews. I have no animosity towards anyone who is Jewish. I have just had some rather uncomfortable experiences with a few of them and this along with my preconceived notions of the culture assures I am no expert to comment on them as a people. From the outside looking in, I would guess they are like any other people. I don't see how they wouldn't be aside from history and culture. In day today life though, they see and often experience the same things as we all do.

I have family who has delved more into family history. After seeing Retrobyter's comments on one of my family names I might be partly Jewish . I can't be entirely because I have Greek feet. That really is a thing you know. We all have either Roman, Egyptian, Greek or Celtic feet. Greek feet and Celtic feet can be similar. Before you conclude I'm full of more poo that a line of porta potties look it up.

7 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

This is just an idiosyncrasy of a particular group of Jews (Orthodox), but not all Jews are like that. In fact, many Jews here in the U.S. don't even wear beards anymore! That doesn't change their heritage.

Which is ironic because now beards on young men are in. 

7 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

This is very unfortunate, and I believe that it is the FAULT of the Christians that they've stayed blind to their OWN Messiah so long! Paul told us,

The most recent Jewish person I spoke with adamantly denies Jesus was anything but a prophet. This Jewish man does not sport a beard and came originally from Poland with his mother. He had a rather complicated last name and changed his name recently to a shorter German last name. He is quite the musician and artist.  He is tied into his family clan tightly. We sort of traded texts until we got into the subject of Jesus. The reason I bring Saul up is because these are PEOPLE who if we are going to reach them, we need to contact them. Unfortunately I dropped the ball with him because he was so callously stubborn about who Jesus is which is totally wrong. It was too difficult to talk to him. As with many Jews his mind is made up.

I'm out of time for now but I thank you for your comments and will return here later.

 

 

[Sower]

On 2/20/2022 at 9:15 AM, Starise said:

Apparently calling it 'heaven' is a more recent coined term. Not sure exactly when it came about?

The term heaven I believe has been diluted/twisted like the term Christian.

I just say I'm going to a place where the Lord has prepared for me, home.

[Starise]

I can't wait to go there because where we are now, this ain't it. Not even close.Thankfully. If this was home I would be most depressed.

[Hobie_]

On 2/18/2022 at 1:47 PM, Who me said:

Look at this world, a poor imitation of what Heaven and the new Earth will be.

Look at the abundance of plant and animal life, the amazing colours, paterns etc

This poor world is cursed by sin, groaning under that curse, yet we find it beatiful.

 

So think how wonderful heaven will be.

 

We like Adam and Eve who only had to tend the garden, we too will have things to do, things to tend to, not chores or to work till our backs age and sweat runs freely.

Heaven will be an amazing adventure in a perfect world where we discover more and more about God and Jesus, interacting with them, the angels and other Christians.

I want to see what fruits will be there and build a garden with every one of them planted, as the ones I grow here get wiped out by every storm, pestilence and bug you can imaging..

[Prycejosh1987]

We all want to go to heaven, but few are willing to take the risks and requirements to get there. Its not easy, we must take heaven violently by force, according to scripture. Everything in heaven and around heaven will be logical. We must stop focusing on going to heaven to avoid the alternative, but to go to heaven because of Who will be there.