Angels

[Omegaman 3.0]

Just now, angels4u said:

I was wondering what he was referring to also and couldn’t approve it because I wasn’t sure of the meaning of this post,I think he thinks you’re young, take the compliment

Problem is, I don't think being youth is something to take as a complement, I was so much more ignorant and less wise years ago, and I am pretty sure he is not referring to my appearance!

[angels4u]

1 minute ago, Omegaman 3.0 said:

Problem is, I don't think being youth is something to take as a complement, I was so much more ignorant and less wise years ago, and I am pretty sure he is not referring to my appearance!

Just joking,our spirit gets renewed everyday but our body breaks down,is not ment to last

[other one]

On 3/26/2022 at 9:41 PM, Golds and Blues said:

And? Tav

Are you promoting a cain crow with unclean wings

I really don't think a Cain crow exists, so I can't promote it.  Crows are an unclean animal because of what they eat and Cain didn't have anything to do with that.

[enoob57]

3 hours ago, Omegaman 3.0 said:

I have no idea what you are saying there. Are you calling me a 'youngin' at seventy years old? Should I be insulted?  

Jesus is the way, the Truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except by Him, so I take care not to ignore Him.

How much did you have to pay him

[Starise]

On 3/28/2022 at 2:00 AM, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, to all.

In light of what @Omegaman 3.0 just said, I'll just say that my posts lately have been to show the VARIETY in the human DNA that evolutionists mistake as separate lines of origin in the human populations, such as Neanderthals.

These oddities are often used to support that "angels (the sons of God) cohabited with the daughters of men" in Genesis 6. I've been trying to show that there have been other understandings of Genesis 6 that do NOT involve "angels" and that "sons of God" actually refer to the children of Shet ("Seth").

I came up with the underground Chanokhim ("Enochians") based on what I've read in Genesis 4 as well as Genesis 6, and I believe that "sons of God" do NOT refer to angels at all, but self-absorbed, delusional descendants of Adam who thought that, because they were allowed to live on the surface while Qayin ("Cain") and his family had to live underground, they deserved the title! It's a title of PREJUDICE! They honor themselves with the "sons of God" label, and think of Qayin's descendants as mere "men" or even "sub-human." In fact, the Scriptures say that they TOOK the daughters of mere "men" BY FORCE to make them their wives! And, what's worse is that they were PRAISED for doing so!

I believe that THAT is what God was disgusted about! And, God NEVER said ANYTHING about "angels" in His denouncement of human beings. That may technically be an argument from silence, but why DIDN'T He mention them? Here's what He said:

Genesis 6:5-7 (KJV)

5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. 6 And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart. 7 And the LORD said,

"I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them."

So, I don't find any credence in the "angels cohabited with the daughters of men" theory.

I  agree that the flood decision was based only on the wickedness of men. I have not seen a biblical foundation for elimination of giants as a primary motive. The wickedness of fallen angels is not expressed as the reason for the flood in the bible. Many who support the angel/human hybrid view will say that this was the ONLY reason for the flood.

As a further argument AGAINST this view,  tribes similar to Anak sprung up after the flood.

God would not initiate a plan that didn't work IF His goal was to eliminate giants. So far as God's plan to eliminate sinful evil men, that part worked for a time, but not in perpetuity. God destroyed the entire earth knowing that bad men would arise once again. So why did He do it? 

First God said He would destroy men with the flood. After the flood He promises never to do it again in the same way and sends a rainbow as a sign. The next time He destroys men will be by fire.

This fact neither eliminates or affirms the angel/giants idea for me.

 

[angels4u]

3 minutes ago, Starise said:

I  agree that the flood decision was based only on the wickedness of men. I have not seen a biblical foundation for elimination of giants as a primary motive. The wickedness of fallen angels is not expressed as the reason for the flood in the bible. Many who support the angel/human hybrid view will say that this was the ONLY reason for the flood.

As a further argument AGAINST this view,  tribes similar to Anak sprung up after the flood.

God would not initiate a plan that didn't work IF His goal was to eliminate giants. So far as God's plan to eliminate sinful evil men, that part worked for a time, but not in perpetuity. God destroyed the entire earth knowing that bad men would arise once again. So why did He do it? 

First God said He would destroy men with the flood. After the flood He promises never to do it again in the same way and sends a rainbow as a sign. The next time He destroys men will be by fire.

This fact neither eliminates or affirms the angel/giants idea for me.

 

Hi Star,

Genesis 6:1–22

Increasing Corruption on Earth

6 When man began to multiply on the face of the land and daughters were born to them, 2 the sons of God saw that the daughters of man were attractive. And they took as their wives any they chose. 3 Then the Lord said, z“My Spirit shall not abide in1 man forever, for he is flesh: his days shall be 120 years.” 4 The Nephilim2 were on the earth in those days, and also afterwards, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of man and they bore children to them. These were the mighty men who were of old, the men of renown.

5 the Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intention of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. 6 And the Lord regretted that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him to his heart. 7 So the Lord said, “I will blot out man whom I have created from the face of the land, man and animals and creeping things and birds of the heavens, for I am sorry that I have made them.” 8 But Noah found favour in the eyes of the Lord.

If you read it carefully, you will notice that the fallen angels mingled with the daughters of man .

The enemy was trying to destroy the pure race God created out of which the Messiah would be born.

[Starise]

38 minutes ago, angels4u said:

6 When man began to multiply on the face of the land and daughters were born to them, 2 the sons of God saw that the daughters of man were attractive. And they took as their wives any they chose. 3 Then the Lord said, z“My Spirit shall not abide in1 man forever, for he is flesh: his days shall be 120 years.” 4 The Nephilim2 were on the earth in those days, and also afterwards, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of man and they bore children to them. These were the mighty men who were of old, the men of renown.

There is really a lot going on in these passages. Nothing out of the ordinary in verse 1.

Verse 2 raises questions. Who are the "sons of God"?  I believe the translations and  surrounding texts lean strongly toward it being angels or uncommon men not of the norm.. One reason- The subject matter and what is being discussed. If we are discussing normal human reproduction why bring up verse 2 at all?  If these were all men it would be life on earth as usual. 

So we have an EVENT that is somehow different. I don't think it would be uncommon to have men, no matter their religion or ethnicity, meeting and marrying women.

I think after verse two we might need to narrow what is being referred to as man or men. "If"verse 3 is referring only to the common man, and it should be by reason of God's response to them, since we don't see God referring to bastards or hybrids. If we infer these are not all totally human, why use the word man or men? Their title should have been re designated. If not we need to redefine "men" here. It is not clear here God is making that tie from normal men to something else. Man's lifespan for that time was a normal 120 years. Nothing superhuman or divine there.

Only in verse 4 are we introduced to these giants or Nephilim. We know the Nephilim were giants. In this verse we are tying back to verse 2 with "sons of God". Notice after the Nephilim are mentioned and their implied association to the sons of God in verse 4 mighty MEN are mentioned. 

My question here would be, why are they still called "mighty men" if the offspring isn't totally human? The "sons of God" were apparently human enough to mate with women. Their offspring were "mighty men". The sons of god may not have been angelic but may have been something else. Whatever they were the text supports their offspring as the Nephilim resulting in giants and probably the closest way the translators could describe them was mighty men or men of renown. I once looked at the text as saying they were better men. Maybe better physically because they were larger? No hybrid would be necessarily better than the originals Yahweh made. Maybe they weren't really hybrids but another type of man. There are no words to indicate 'hybrid' anywhere.

 

 

[Retrobyter]

1 hour ago, angels4u said:

Hi Star,

Genesis 6:1–22 (via English Standard Version)

Increasing Corruption on Earth

6:1 When man began to multiply on the face of the land and daughters were born to them, 2 the sons of God saw that the daughters of man were attractive. And they took as their wives any they chose. 3 Then the LORD said, “My Spirit shall not abide in(a) man forever, for he is flesh: his days shall be 120 years.” 4 The Nephilim(b) were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of man and they bore children to them. These were the mighty men who were of old, the men of renown.

5 The LORD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intention of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. 6 And the Lord regretted that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him to his heart. 7 So the Lord said, “I will blot out man whom I have created from the face of the land, man and animals and creeping things and birds of the heavens, for I am sorry that I have made them.” 8 But Noah found favour in the eyes of the LORD.

If you read it carefully, you will notice that the fallen angels mingled with the daughters of man.

Shalom, angels4u.

One must read this passage of Scripture much more carefully than that! First, the passage NEVER says that the "sons of God" were "the fallen angels." That's YOUR substitution!

Second, again, where is God's condemnation against the "fallen angels," if that's who they were? Why is God only upset with mankind?

Third, looking carefully at verse 1, 

"When man began to multiply on the (sur)face of the land and daughters were born to them" tells us that these were the "man" in the "daughters of man."

Fourth, these "sons of God" hails back to Genesis 4:

Genesis 4:25-26 (ESV)

25 And Adam knew his wife again, and she bore a son and called his name Seth, for she said,

“God has appointed(g) for me another offspring instead of Abel, for Cain killed him.”

 26 To Seth also a son was born, and he called his name Enosh. At that time people began to call upon the name of the LORD.

Literally, this last sentence means that this was the time when men started to call themselves by the name of YHWH. That is, they started to use God's name as a talisman - a good-luck charm, such as "sons of God!"

1 hour ago, angels4u said:

The enemy was trying to destroy the pure race God created out of which the Messiah would be born.

This statement is malarky! "The pure race God created" is NOT what God needed to produce the Messiah! Isn't it true that, even in this time period, "all have sinned and come short of the glory of God"? Don't you remember that "Yhudah (Judah) had impure relations with his daughter-in-law Tamar" within the lineage of the Messiah? Don't you know that "Ruwt" (or Ruth) came from "Moav" (or Moab), a nation that sacrificed to false gods and used temple prostitutes in their worship? Don't you remember that "Rachav" (or Rahab) was a prostitute in Jericho? Isn't it true that David committed adultery with Bat-Sheva ("Bathsheba")? A "pure race?" I don't think so! 

[Retrobyter]

17 hours ago, Starise said:

I  agree that the flood decision was based only on the wickedness of men. I have not seen a biblical foundation for elimination of giants as a primary motive. The wickedness of fallen angels is not expressed as the reason for the flood in the bible. Many who support the angel/human hybrid view will say that this was the ONLY reason for the flood.

As a further argument AGAINST this view,  tribes similar to Anak sprung up after the flood.

God would not initiate a plan that didn't work IF His goal was to eliminate giants. So far as God's plan to eliminate sinful evil men, that part worked for a time, but not in perpetuity. God destroyed the entire earth knowing that bad men would arise once again. So why did He do it? 

First God said He would destroy men with the flood. After the flood He promises never to do it again in the same way and sends a rainbow as a sign. The next time He destroys men will be by fire.

This fact neither eliminates or affirms the angel/giants idea for me.

 

Shalom, Starise.

Why would SIZE be the issue that demanded a Flood, anyway? Wasn't the issue the EVIL that was continually in the hearts of men?

Some suggest that the Flood was to eliminate the half-breeds; those made from the man-angel unions, but we don't even know that such unions are POSSIBLE, let alone MADE!

I contend that there is NOWHERE in Scriptures where "sons of God" refer to "angels" (or "supernatural messengers"), especially those "angels of God!"

Romans 8:12-17 (KJV)

12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. 13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. 14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. 15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. 16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: 17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

1 John 5:1-4 (KJV)

1 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him. 2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous. 4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.

Hebrews 1:1-7, 13-14 (KJV)

1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, 2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; 3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high; 4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.

5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time,

"Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee"? 

And again,

"I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son"?

6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith,

"And let all the angels of God worship him."

7 And of the angels he saith,

"Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire."

...

13 But to which of the angels said he at any time,

"Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool"?

14 Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?

1 John 3:1-3 (KJV)

1 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not. 2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. 3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

So, when we go back to the book of Job ("Iyov"), consider for a moment that "the sons of God" were NOT "angels" when you read ...

Job 1:6 (KJV)

6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them. 

It is ASSUMED by some that "Satan" is of the same caliber as "the sons of God," and based upon this ASSUMPTION they conclude that "the sons of God" were angels because "Satan" is an angel, although fallen.

BUT, what if they WEREN'T angels as they have been ASSUMED to be. What if they were actually God-fearing MEN (and WOMEN) who "came to present themselves before YHWH" to make sacrifices before Him? Where else could Satan go on earth to seek an audience with YHWH God?

Just something to think about.

If God is 

[angels4u]

7 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, angels4u.

One must read this passage of Scripture much more carefully than that! First, the passage NEVER says that the "sons of God" were "the fallen angels." That's YOUR substitution!

Second, again, where is God's condemnation against the "fallen angels," if that's who they were? Why is God only upset with mankind?

Third, looking carefully at verse 1, 

"When man began to multiply on the (sur)face of the land and daughters were born to them" tells us that these were the "man" in the "daughters of man."

Fourth, these "sons of God" hails back to Genesis 4:

Genesis 4:25-26 (ESV)

25 And Adam knew his wife again, and she bore a son and called his name Seth, for she said,

“God has appointed(g) for me another offspring instead of Abel, for Cain killed him.”

 26 To Seth also a son was born, and he called his name Enosh. At that time people began to call upon the name of the LORD.

Literally, this last sentence means that this was the time when men started to call themselves by the name of YHWH. That is, they started to use God's name as a talisman - a good-luck charm, such as "sons of God!"

This statement is malarky! "The pure race God created" is NOT what God needed to produce the Messiah! Isn't it true that, even in this time period, "all have sinned and come short of the glory of God"? Don't you remember that "Yhudah (Judah) had impure relations with his daughter-in-law Tamar" within the lineage of the Messiah? Don't you know that "Ruwt" (or Ruth) came from "Moav" (or Moab), a nation that sacrificed to false gods and used temple prostitutes in their worship? Don't you remember that "Rachav" (or Rahab) was a prostitute in Jericho? Isn't it true that David committed adultery with Bat-Sheva ("Bathsheba")? A "pure race?" I don't think so! 

This article is interesting and explains is better..

How did fallen angels and humans produce Nephilim?

25 February 2014

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How did fallen angels impregnate women and make Nephilim? And, why did they do this?

In Genesis 6 we learn that the primary cause of the flood was the emergence of a new, insidious threat to God's plan of redemption. Fallen angels, called "sons of God" (ben Elohim) in Genesis 6, were taking women, called "daughters of men," for sexual relationships. The result of these unions were a grotesque being scripture calls Nephilim. The Nephilim were giants, people who were grossly distorted by their unnatural origins.

Gen. 6:1 Now it came about, when men began to multiply on the face of the land, and daughters were born to them,
Gen. 6:2 that the sons of God saw that the daughters of men were  beautiful; and they took wives for themselves, whomever they chose.
 

Gen. 6:4 The  Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men, and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown.
 

Satan instigated this plan hoping to polute the human "seed" to stop God's plan to bring forth a Messiah, the Seed, promised to come one day and destroy (i.e., bruise) Satan:

Gen. 3:15:  And I will put enmity
Between you and the woman, 
And between your seed and her seed;
He shall bruise you on the head,
And you shall bruise him on the heel.” 

Clearly, the Lord could not stand by and allow such an attempt to succeed. Peter also refers to this occasion in his second letter in explaining the Lord's response:

2Pet. 2:4  For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell and  committed them to pits of darkness, reserved for judgment;
2Pet. 2:5 and did not spare  the ancient world, but preserved  Noah, a  preacher of righteousness, with seven others, when He brought a  flood upon the world of the ungodly;
 

The Lord punished the demons and destroyed the fruit of their evil labors. Clearly, the act of mating happened, and the demons involved in this sin paid a dear price, but apart from these references, we have little to help us understand how spiritual creatures can mate with physical beings. We do not know specifically how the demons impregnated women, but we do know of other circumstances when angels appear to men in the form of bodies. For example, Abraham is met by three "men" in Genesis 18:

Gen. 18:2 When he lifted up his eyes and looked, behold, three  men were standing opposite him; and when he saw them, he ran from the tent door to meet them and bowed himself to the earth, 
 

Later in the chapter, we observe these men eating with Abraham and speaking with him, yet they were not men. One was the Lord Himself and the other two were angels. So clearly, angels can take the form of men when desired. 

Secondly, we know that the Holy Spirit impregnated Mary. While we're not suggesting that demons' abilities are equal to God's, nevertheless it demonstrates that Spirit and flesh can interact in ways we don't completely understand.

So although the details are not provided for us, scripture testifies that demons and women mated in some way to produce a race of creatures called Nephalim.https://www.versebyverseministry.org/bible-answers/how-did-fallen-angels-and-humans-produce-nephilim

Just my 2 pennies..