The alive and remaining are changed - doesn't that mean all the rest died?

[DeighAnn]

1 hour ago, debrakay said:

Hi DeighAnn - Great thread!  Thank you for the question!

Your verse reference here and the fact I recently studied it prompted me to add this little controversial tidbit.  It shows how one small little word can make a big difference which is why we rely on the power and discernment of the Holy Spirit for personal interpretation of scripture. 

Did you know they found this scripture written differently in the Vaticanus and Sinaiticus? I just read about this last week.  I believe the writer of that article (which I cannot find now) said the King James compilers used several other translations for comparison and used that version with the word "NOT" in the first part of the scripture which is what we read today.  It's a big difference in the two.

One reads:  "Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed"

but the others reads, "Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall all sleep, but we shall not all be changed"

I don't think I understand.  What does that say then?  That the earth can have no living humans left before Christ returns?  

[Selah7]

10 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

I don't think I understand.  What does that say then?  That the earth can have no living humans left before Christ returns?  

It’s just false doctrine meant to deceive.  I wonder how they translated 1 Corinthians 15:52.

in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

- 1 Corinthians 15:52 (NKJV)

[DeighAnn]

20 minutes ago, Selah7 said:

It’s just false doctrine meant to deceive.  I wonder how they translated 1 Corinthians 15:52.

in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

- 1 Corinthians 15:52 (NKJV)

You make a good point there.  It would require the two places.  

Random question did the outer boarders of the little box we type in always go OVER the dark blue banner with 'worthy ministries TV news forums or did that just start?  It FEELS really new but maybe I am just not very observant.  

[George]

@DeighAnn  Let me help you think through the process of your question from a hebraic mindset.  In a hebraic understanding, everything is cyclical.  For example, a daily cycle -- weekly cycle -- monthly cycle -- seasonal cycle -- yearly cycles -- smi-tah cycles (7 year cycles) -- and jubilee cycles.  Pay attention to how things began -- it will help explain how it will end.

In the beginning ... 7 day cycle -- connect it to a 7,000 year cycle.

So in Hebraic thought, the earth continues for 6,000 years then a 1,000 year millennial reign was a teaching in the early church, pointing to the last day as a day (1,000) year reign of rest.

So how does this 6,000 year end ... with the saint resurrection (judgment seat of Christ) ... so it would also connect to the end of the 7th day (7,000th year) that you'd have a different resurrection with a different judgment ... hence why I posted the Scriptures about the last day.

Why Preterism has some truths (and why it's wrong) is because historical events are cyclical.  You'd EXPECT past events to repeat, hence why you hear the term History repeats itself!  Just because something happened in the past, doesn't mean it's completely fulfilled.  Oftentimes past events are PICTURES for us to understand where we are prophetically today!

Strong preterists do not UNDERSTAND the re-establishment of the state of Israel .. and deny its prophetic significance.  They believe we're in the millennial reign now!  If you are BORN AGAIN ... the Kingdom of God is WITHIN YOU (and it's partially true), however it negates what we pray for DAILY -- Thy will be done -- thy KINGDOM COME!  

A proper understanding from a Jewish perspective is the coming of the MESSIAH to establish the THRONE of DAVID on the earth as a physical kingdom.  While orthodox Judaism does not see Jesus as the Messiah, it also has many discussions of two messiahs ... a Meshiach Ben Yosef (Messiah Son of Joseph) and Meshiach ben David (Messiah Son of David) to try and figure out the 2 types of messiah portrayed in Scripture.  They simply fail to recognize it's ONE Messiah coming TWO TIMES.

So look at the QUESTION YOU originally asked ... and think of it in a cyclical pattern.  When you do so, the Scriptures will fall in line easily.  There is NOTHING NEW UNDER THE SUN! 

When reading a book written by Jews ... one should understand it from a Jewish understanding with a Hebraic mindset from the times from which it is written.

Be blessed in your study of His Word!

[angels4u]

8 hours ago, George said:

@DeighAnn  Let me help you think through the process of your question from a hebraic mindset.  In a hebraic understanding, everything is cyclical.  For example, a daily cycle -- weekly cycle -- monthly cycle -- seasonal cycle -- yearly cycles -- smi-tah cycles (7 year cycles) -- and jubilee cycles.  Pay attention to how things began -- it will help explain how it will end.

In the beginning ... 7 day cycle -- connect it to a 7,000 year cycle.

So in Hebraic thought, the earth continues for 6,000 years then a 1,000 year millennial reign was a teaching in the early church, pointing to the last day as a day (1,000) year reign of rest.

So how does this 6,000 year end ... with the saint resurrection (judgment seat of Christ) ... so it would also connect to the end of the 7th day (7,000th year) that you'd have a different resurrection with a different judgment ... hence why I posted the Scriptures about the last day.

Why Preterism has some truths (and why it's wrong) is because historical events are cyclical.  You'd EXPECT past events to repeat, hence why you hear the term History repeats itself!  Just because something happened in the past, doesn't mean it's completely fulfilled.  Oftentimes past events are PICTURES for us to understand where we are prophetically today!

Strong preterists do not UNDERSTAND the re-establishment of the state of Israel .. and deny its prophetic significance.  They believe we're in the millennial reign now!  If you are BORN AGAIN ... the Kingdom of God is WITHIN YOU (and it's partially true), however it negates what we pray for DAILY -- Thy will be done -- thy KINGDOM COME!  

A proper understanding from a Jewish perspective is the coming of the MESSIAH to establish the THRONE of DAVID on the earth as a physical kingdom.  While orthodox Judaism does not see Jesus as the Messiah, it also has many discussions of two messiahs ... a Meshiach Ben Yosef (Messiah Son of Joseph) and Meshiach ben David (Messiah Son of David) to try and figure out the 2 types of messiah portrayed in Scripture.  They simply fail to recognize it's ONE Messiah coming TWO TIMES.

So look at the QUESTION YOU originally asked ... and think of it in a cyclical pattern.  When you do so, the Scriptures will fall in line easily.  There is NOTHING NEW UNDER THE SUN! 

When reading a book written by Jews ... one should understand it from a Jewish understanding with a Hebraic mindset from the times from which it is written.

Be blessed in your study of His Word!

Deighann ,Arnold Fruchtenbaum wrote a book "The life of Jesus" from a Jewish perspective which might be interesting to read,I didn't read it yet but I do like his teaching,I don't know if you can borrow the book from somebody?

 

[Alive]

8 hours ago, George said:

@DeighAnn  Let me help you think through the process of your question from a hebraic mindset.  In a hebraic understanding, everything is cyclical.  For example, a daily cycle -- weekly cycle -- monthly cycle -- seasonal cycle -- yearly cycles -- smi-tah cycles (7 year cycles) -- and jubilee cycles.  Pay attention to how things began -- it will help explain how it will end.

In the beginning ... 7 day cycle -- connect it to a 7,000 year cycle.

So in Hebraic thought, the earth continues for 6,000 years then a 1,000 year millennial reign was a teaching in the early church, pointing to the last day as a day (1,000) year reign of rest.

So how does this 6,000 year end ... with the saint resurrection (judgment seat of Christ) ... so it would also connect to the end of the 7th day (7,000th year) that you'd have a different resurrection with a different judgment ... hence why I posted the Scriptures about the last day.

Why Preterism has some truths (and why it's wrong) is because historical events are cyclical.  You'd EXPECT past events to repeat, hence why you hear the term History repeats itself!  Just because something happened in the past, doesn't mean it's completely fulfilled.  Oftentimes past events are PICTURES for us to understand where we are prophetically today!

Strong preterists do not UNDERSTAND the re-establishment of the state of Israel .. and deny its prophetic significance.  They believe we're in the millennial reign now!  If you are BORN AGAIN ... the Kingdom of God is WITHIN YOU (and it's partially true), however it negates what we pray for DAILY -- Thy will be done -- thy KINGDOM COME!  

A proper understanding from a Jewish perspective is the coming of the MESSIAH to establish the THRONE of DAVID on the earth as a physical kingdom.  While orthodox Judaism does not see Jesus as the Messiah, it also has many discussions of two messiahs ... a Meshiach Ben Yosef (Messiah Son of Joseph) and Meshiach ben David (Messiah Son of David) to try and figure out the 2 types of messiah portrayed in Scripture.  They simply fail to recognize it's ONE Messiah coming TWO TIMES.

So look at the QUESTION YOU originally asked ... and think of it in a cyclical pattern.  When you do so, the Scriptures will fall in line easily.  There is NOTHING NEW UNDER THE SUN! 

When reading a book written by Jews ... one should understand it from a Jewish understanding with a Hebraic mindset from the times from which it is written.

Be blessed in your study of His Word!

@George
Yup. Understood. A Hebrew mindset. This is in itself a reasonable assertion to make. Understanding the mindset, culture and historicity of writers and audience can and does shed light on content. May I suggest we discuss how turning this into a template, such as what you suggest of cycles and wresting scripture into the template may possibly be error?

As far as using the Lord’s prayer to finalize your points with an authoritive stance, I can offer a different explanation later.

For now. What is a Kingdom? What constitutes a Kingdom? More pointedly, what does the whole of scripture say about Christ’s Kingdom?

Edited March 28, 2022 by Alive

[angels4u]

24 minutes ago, Alive said:

 

 

Alive and @DeighAnn

This article might help you to understand what we're talking about

https://israelmyglory.org/article/a-d-70-preterisms-prophetic-dead-end/

 

[luigi]

The alive and remaining are the saints who are alive and remaining after the great tribulation. These still alive and remaining saints are also referred to as the remnant. 

 Revelation 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

[Alive]

6 minutes ago, angels4u said:

 

Alive and @DeighAnnI don't think you're a futurist?

This article might help you to understand what we're talking about

https://israelmyglory.org/article/a-d-70-preterisms-prophetic-dead-end/

 

That is not a good representation of views. There is some general content that is accurate, but mixed with false and exagerated points.

It is understandable. The problem with folks taking a position in any column related to eschatology are many, but two are most prominent.

1. A stance on a pre-conceived group of beliefs built on an existing construct.

2. Skin in the game.

[angels4u]

Just now, Alive said:

That is not a good representation of views. There is some general content that is accurate, but mixed with false and exagerated points.

It is understandable. The problem with folks taking a position in any column related to eschatology are many, but two are most prominent.

1. A stance on a pre-conceived group of beliefs built on an existing construct.

2. Skin in the game.

Do you see yourself as a futurist?