Question for prewrathers and/or posttribbers

[OneLight]

27 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

That is true UNLESS God answered it in another verse, such as 1 Thes. 4:16-17.

That scripture tells us what occurs when we are to be caught up to be with the Lord, known as the rapture.  It does not specifically tell us that we will be introduced to our new homes at that time.  There will be the Bema Seat Judgment, Marriage Supper and who knows what else we will do before we even see our new homes.   We may see them right off the bat, but since scripture does not give us an itinerary of what will happen after we are raptured, nobody know.

[iamlamad]

35 minutes ago, OneLight said:

That scripture tells us what occurs when we are to be caught up to be with the Lord, known as the rapture.  It does not specifically tell us that we will be introduced to our new homes at that time.  There will be the Bema Seat Judgment, Marriage Supper and who knows what else we will do before we even see our new homes.   We may see them right off the bat, but since scripture does not give us an itinerary of what will happen after we are raptured, nobody know.

The OP question was, when do you see John 14:1-2 taking place? Are you saying you think it will take place right after we are caught up?

[OneLight]

16 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

The OP question was, when do you see John 14:1-2 taking place? Are you saying you think it will take place right after we are caught up?

No, I am saying that when scripture is silent, so should we be silent.  We sare not told when we will see our new homes, just that we will.

[Marilyn C]

8 hours ago, Last Daze said:

Aren't fallen angels already judged by God, thus their "fallen" attribute?  What's left to judge?  I've never understood the idea of re-judging an entity already judged by God.  

Maybe we'll judge the service of righteous angels?

Hi Last Daze,

I see it as agreeing with the Lord as He passes judgment, specifically here it is with fallen angels -

`And war broke out in heaven Michael and His angels fought against the dragon and his angels, but they did not prevail, nor was a place found for them in heaven (lower heavens) any longer. So the great dragon was cast out...to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.` (Rev. 12: 7 - 9)

That to me is a representation of the (holy) angels  carrying out the Lord`s authority in judgment upon Satan and his fallen angels. 

Then later on we know that Satan (& his angels) were cast into the pit, and later to the Lake of fire. (Rev. 20: 1 - 3,  10)  

This is all the Lord`s judgment and His Body is ruling with Him, agreeing with the judgments. The angels carry out such judgment.

[Marilyn C]

1 hour ago, OneLight said:

That scripture tells us what occurs when we are to be caught up to be with the Lord, known as the rapture.  It does not specifically tell us that we will be introduced to our new homes at that time.  There will be the Bema Seat Judgment, Marriage Supper and who knows what else we will do before we even see our new homes.   We may see them right off the bat, but since scripture does not give us an itinerary of what will happen after we are raptured, nobody know.

Why do each of us need a `home?` 

What do we need with a lounge, kitchen, dining room, bedroom, bathroom, laundry (to wash our white robes) etc etc? 

Are we living by ourselves in these `homes,` as there is no marriage in heaven? (Thus no so called Marriage Supper for believers). 

Why do we need shelter from the elements in heaven?

Why are we supposed to be cooking food? 

Is our bodies like mortal ones? No. 

We should not be thinking from an earthly perspective. God has told us that our `new bodies` are our new homes.

`For we know that if our earthly HOUSE, this tent, is destroyed, we have a BUILDING FROM GOD, A HOUSE not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.

For in this we groan earnestly desiring to be clothed with our HABITATION which is from heaven, if indeed, having been clothed, we shall not be found naked.`( 2 Cor. 5: 1 - 3)

[DeighAnn]

1 hour ago, iamlamad said:

Are you saying John 14:-12 will occur individually as each believer passes?

If so, then you are saying you don't believe it will take place when the dead in Christ are raised and those who are alive are caught up. Did I understand you correctly?

Yes, I am saying that.  

I am saying when Jesus walked the earth Gods people were still under the OLD Covenant.  

There was a problem with the OLD Covenant.  It made you KNOW when you were sinning and it gave you a recourse for that sin, but because MEN were so weak they sinned so often that animals were being sacrificed ALL THE TIME and even with that sin was still always running rampant.  It took the temple, the priests, the animals, the rituals etc to find forgiveness.  I don't know about you but there are times ESPECIALLY when I was younger that I would be on my knees repenting 4 or 5 times a day.  To walk holy was nearly impossible but for very short amounts of time.  And worst of all, following these laws wasn't bringing the people to love and faith the way it was designed to and it was seen as a burden, not being set free. And if you broke one law, you were in sin and sin meant when you died you couldn't go to be with the Father.  

So all those people who died under the law were left in the earth.  THAT wouldn't be changed until the Heavenly Kingdom and King were set up, or there was BLOODSHED to bring about a NEW COVENANT.

When Christ died, HIS blood made it possible for the NEW COVENANT to be set in place and remove the old one.  

So what happened?  Christ went into the tomb and during the three days went and preached THE GOOD NEWS, the New Testament to those who were 'stuck, bound, in bondage, in the grave, in hades, still with sin' aka THE DEAD.  WHAT WAS THE GOOD NEWS?  That CHRIST, the Lamb of God had been sacrificed and what all the rituals and law and priests and temple COULD NOT ACCOMPLISH HE DID.  

HE was able to FORGIVE sin.  And there was GRACE that even if you died NOT BEING PERFECT, YOUR BELIEF in Him would COVER that sin so that DEATH, the grave, hades....could not hold you there.  AND SO all who were in the graves at that time ROSE UP AND ASCENDED TO HEAVEN WITH HIM.  BODY (SPIRITUAL) SOUL/SPIRIT, the person, the being, the son of God, the joint heir with Christ, the adopted son, the washed clean person....

THOSE WERE 

John 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in Me, though he were dead, yet shall he live

REMEMBER THE SUBJECT.  Lazarus is dead.  The dead are going to rise.  Lazarus is going to RISE from the dead AS PROOF THAT CHRIST IS WHO HE SAYS AND THAT the DEAD DO RISE.  JESUS went and preached to the dead and all who believed rose with His body.  

It was an old prophecy from the book of Isaiah, it was a prophecy Jesus gave us.  He descended and He led the captives (of Hades) to Heaven.  NO LONGER could ANYONE WHO BELIEVED BE HELD BY DEATH IN THE EARTH.  Only thing to stay in the earth was the ONCE BODY of the spirit/soul being because THEY RAISED UP IN THEIR SPIRITUAL BODIES.  

Now that the dead rose, WHAT about those who HADN'T DIED YET?  What was this NEW COVENANT ALL ABOUT?

Remember no more need for ANIMALS, Rituals, A TEMPLE for the Rituals, priests to go into the Holy of Holies and  talk to GOD for us, no more VEIL that kept us from going to GOD ourselves, NOW WE were able to 'go see the LORD GOD ALMIGHTY' through repentance, and forgiveness, and being washed clean through the infinite value of the BLOOD OF THE LAMB OF GOD.  AND NOW we were to receive the HOLY SPIRIT.  So now, when sin came we could INSTANTLY drop to our knees, repent and ask forgiveness and be washed clean and TALK TO GOD OURSELVES.  WE COULD spend MORE TIME out of sin than in it.  

NO SIN, NO DEATH.  MAKES BELIEVING IN GOD A SUPER GOOD THING and takes away ALL FEAR OF DEATH because when we are SAVED, WE DON'T DIE, we just move to a better place in a better body with better souls.  

Back to the point.  ALL WHO WERE DEAD ROSE with Christ. (who believed, the rest stayed)

SO what about the LIVING who were being converted at that time and all who would follow?  WHAT DOES JESUS TELL US?  

John 11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in Me shall never die. Believest thou this?

FROM the day that CHRIST rose up ALL THOSE WHO COME TO FAITH WHILE ALIVE, 


never die.  


YES, the flesh body QUITS but the quitting of the flesh makes ALIVE the seed and the NEW BODY/SPIRIT/SOUL goes BACK TO GOD.   

IF we BELIEVE we CAN'T BE AMONGST THE DEAD.  WE CAN'T 'RISE UP WITH THE DEAD' WHEN HE RETURNS

because

we are returning with HIM.   


I don't know where all these HARVESTS and all these wedding traditions come from but I CAN'T FIND anywhere we are told to USE THEM as 'the end plan' can you?  

The HARVEST of the end time I read of goes like 'let them all grow together and when Christ returns it will get sorted out'.  THAT doesn't take place in 'stages'.  

AS FOR 'the church' rapture well, Who did Christ tell us He came for?  Who will He not lose but one of?  Where do you think CHRISTS sheep are gathered?  Let's see, Christians and the Church and whomsoever would.  Since we know JACOB is Israel and the 10 tribes of the House of Israel are the scattered sheep He came for, you can rest assured the reason there ISN'T ONE WORD WRITTEN about a pre trib rapture of the church is because THERE ISN'T ONE.  

JACOBS trouble.  Jacob is all 12 tribes.  The church is what Christ started for the gathering of the scattered sheep.  The Gentiles are also invited.  


 

[AdHoc]

1 hour ago, iamlamad said:

Read this part again:

3  And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be...

Jesus is speaking of where He will be at a certain point in time way into the future from when He said it. The time is when He comes again. Therefore, We will be where He is at the time He comes for us. That seems to be saying just what Paul wrote in 1 Thes. 4 but with different words. At the rapture events, will Jesus have "come again to receive us to Him? Certainly this is true.

Sorry, but I disagree. 

I'm afraid that the grammar is plain. He was speaking of where He was at that moment. "I AM" is present tense. And He plainly said - twice, where it was: "In the Father and the Father in Him" - making Him the Father's House. There was no talk of the clouds or the air, and heaven is not mentioned

And He did go away - to Hades for three days (Matt.12:40), rose and went to the Father (Jn.20:17, Heb.9:12), and then returned (Lk.24:36-39) and made the disciples ABODES of God's House by breathing the Holy Spirit into them (Jn.20:22).

In addition, our Lord defined "that day". It would be the day in which; "... ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you." (Jn.14:20). Again, there is no talk of the air and the clouds, but everything about becoming God's ABODE.

[DeighAnn]

2 hours ago, iamlamad said:

Are you saying John 14:-12 will occur individually as each believer passes?

If so, then you are saying you don't believe it will take place when the dead in Christ are raised and those who are alive are caught up. Did I understand you correctly?

John 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.


And He will appear to us on our LAST DAY.  

On the Last day of the Old Covenant  the graves were opened and the dead rose

On the Last day of our 'life' we will rise and He will meet us and bring us to the Father

On the last day of this age  "the dead - both the just and the unjust' will rise

Also on the last day of this age 'those left alive and remaining will be changed'

On the LAST DAY of the LORDS DAY, at the GWTJ,  the rest of the DEAD will rise to go into the lake of fire AFTER the 'dead -both just and unjust' who rose 1000 years before stand in judgment.  


The last day is WHAT EVER THE SUBJECT TELLS YOU IT IS.  It isn't the LAST DAY of 2000 years ago like everyone keeps trying to make it.  THAT IS WHY the BIBLE never makes any sense.  THAT LAST DAY already happened.  DON'T BELIEVE ME?  Try and FIND IT MENTIONED after 'the graves were opened' 2000 years ago as a day when 'all resurrect'.  Can't be done as only the dead resurrect on that day.  

All those who believed are returning.  Some of the dead are rising.  And the alive and remaining are being changed.  

Edited April 24, 2022 by DeighAnn

[OneLight]

20 minutes ago, Marilyn C said:

Why do each of us need a `home?` 

What do we need with a lounge, kitchen, dining room, bedroom, bathroom, laundry (to wash our white robes) etc etc? 

Are we living by ourselves in these `homes,` as there is no marriage in heaven? (Thus no so called Marriage Supper for believers). 

Why do we need shelter from the elements in heaven?

Why are we supposed to be cooking food? 

Is our bodies like mortal ones? No. 

We should not be thinking from an earthly perspective. God has told us that our `new bodies` are our new homes.

`For we know that if our earthly HOUSE, this tent, is destroyed, we have a BUILDING FROM GOD, A HOUSE not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.

For in this we groan earnestly desiring to be clothed with our HABITATION which is from heaven, if indeed, having been clothed, we shall not be found naked.`( 2 Cor. 5: 1 - 3)

Why are you asking me these question, ask God.  I have no clue what it will be like in the next life, just little hints.  But one thing is for sure, it will be more glorious than we could ever imagine.

[Marilyn C]

32 minutes ago, OneLight said:

Why are you asking me these question, ask God.  I have no clue what it will be like in the next life, just little hints.  But one thing is for sure, it will be more glorious than we could ever imagine.

Hi OneLight,

I was asking you as this is what you said -

No, I am saying that when scripture is silent, so should we be silent.  We are not told when we will see our new homes, just that we will.

You are telling people that they will have a building, a new home, which is NOT scriptural.

 

As we are `immortal & incorruptible` we will not be needing earthly - shelter, food, care of bodies, medicines etc. So `homes` as in buildings is a nonsense. 

People tend to think in earthly terms with visions of `mansions` and great palaces for themselves. Time to just keep to what God says - our new bodies are our `homes.`