Who is Resurrected, and When?

[Uriah]

3 hours ago, Diaste said:

I must look elsewhere for those answers.

As for me, the words of Jesus are enough. 

Mat 13:40- As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.

There are only 3 choices; 

"The world that then was", "this world", and, "the world to come"

One is gone, one is present, the other has no end. To me, it is obvious.

Good luck finding what you seek. 

[DeighAnn]

5 hours ago, Diaste said:

I don't know how the unseen becoming the seen answers the question Who is Resurrected, and When?

Since that is the world we are resurrected to, that is the exact time of all the when's....or am I missing something?


"Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." Hebrews 11:1 KJV



"While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal." 2 Corinthians 4:18 KJV


 

 

5 hours ago, Diaste said:

Are all believers from all time resurrected at the 2nd advent? Or is it just those from GT who were beheaded and overcame the beast? 

Since it is THE DEAD who are resurrected, it can't be any believers from any time as believers aren't THE DEAD, they are the living, the never die.  

All the rest ARE just doctrines of MAN 

So,

I KEEP ASKING FOR ANYONE FROM ANYWHERE OF ANY FAITH OR BELIEF TO SHOW WHEN THE NEVER DIE 

1. rise up WITHOUT A BODY
2. return WITHOUT A BODY
3. DIE AND BECOME ONE OF THE DEAD to reunite with a carcass, to resurrect again and 
4.  How a dead body that MAKES ONE UNCLEAN JUST BY TOUCHING IT can become a resurrected glorified body


 It's just like PRE TRIB.  SKIP what is written and go STRAIGHT to the doctrine and how it works, no matter how much of Gods word is voided in the process.  

so either SOMEONE has got to prove what I put forth AS INCORRECT which so far ONLY comes with I am confused and don't put forth scripture for what I believe WHILE all I do is put forth Scripture and just don't agree,

or PROVING what is being put forth IS WRITTEN. 

So, I ask again, where can I find the answers to the points put for above?  



As for believers, 
Jesus died and rose, even so them.  So all 'believers' have already resurrected, just like those who will be beheaded or killed during the hour of temptation.  

The last 2 to be 'resurrected' will be the two witnesses.  And we know all believers were resurrected before them by
"that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep, and they are changed/transformed BUT not raised from the dead.

We also know the graves were opened for believers 2000 years ago by what is written "and the graves were opened"

We also know that believers have followed Him because HE PRAYED that they would be with Him where He was, and He is in heaven, so believers must be in heaven with the GOD OF THE LIVING AND NOT THE DEAD.


We know believers went to heaven in a spiritual body because that too, is what is written

42So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:

43It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:

44It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

So the question is do you believe

Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

OR do you believe

 Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?


That is ALL this discussion comes down to.  Do you believe the words of God as GIVEN or don't you?  


Sown a NATURAL BODY, RAISED a spiritual body. 

this body dies, the spiritual body raised

or

Yea, hath God said,

the never die are the dead? 

those saved from death and destruction don't follow Him but will wait for their resurrection and will be raised from death and destruction at the 2nd Advent, just like the unsaved.

where He went and how He went will never be followed by anyone.  

 

[WilliamL]

4 hours ago, Uriah said:

As for me, the words of Jesus are enough. 

Mat 13:40- As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.  αἰών

There are only 3 choices; 

"The world that then was", "this world", and, "the world to come"

One is gone, one is present, the other has no end. To me, it is obvious.

αἰών aiṓn, ahee-ohn'; from the same as G104; properly, an age.

Eph 3:5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit...

So not so obvious. There are ages past, and there will be ages future. Beginning with the Millennial Age, and then what follows thereafter.

[Uriah]

1 hour ago, WilliamL said:

αἰών aiṓn, ahee-ohn'; from the same as G104; properly, an age.

Eph 3:5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit...

So not so obvious. There are ages past, and there will be ages future. Beginning with the Millennial Age, and then what follows thereafter.

Aion- world, can often be interchangable. What are the other ages are yet to come? I quoted Daniel where it says His kingdom and dominion will be everlasting.

[WilliamL]

17 minutes ago, Uriah said:

What are the other ages are yet to come?

There will be at least two, the Millennial Age and the New Jerusalem age.

The latter will consist of three separate millennial ages, according to Moshe Chaim Luzzatto.

[Uriah]

21 minutes ago, WilliamL said:

There will be at least two, the Millennial Age and the New Jerusalem age.

The latter will consist of three separate millennial ages, according to Moshe Chaim Luzzatto.

Any bible verses?

[Retrobyter]

2 hours ago, Uriah said:

Aion- world, can often be interchangable. What are the other ages are yet to come? I quoted Daniel where it says His kingdom and dominion will be everlasting.

Shalom, Uriah.

Actually, no. "Aioon" ALWAYS refers to an "age." "Kosmos" is translated as "world." The fact that "aioon" has been translated in some versions as "world" is misleading and just plain wrong.

[Uriah]

1 hour ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, Uriah.

Actually, no. "Aioon" ALWAYS refers to an "age." "Kosmos" is translated as "world." The fact that "aioon" has been translated in some versions as "world" is misleading and just plain wrong.

Right,in some versions. And for the context and usage in this thread either way works fine.

[Retrobyter]

20 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

I believe we are the sons of God who watched the earth be created.

4Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.

5Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?

6Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;

7When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy? Job 38

I believe that took place during the world that was

For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:

6Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:

7But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. 2 Pet

I believe that 'age' (WAS) was long lasting and it ended with the fall of Satan

3And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.

4And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born. Rev 12


I believe it seriously caused God pain.  I believe just as there is going to be a NEW JERUSALEM, and as there is a Jerusalem now, there was a Jerusalem then.  

My bowels, my bowels! I am pained at my very heart; my heart maketh a noise in me; I cannot hold my peace, because thou hast heard, O my soul, the sound of the trumpet, the alarm of war.

20Destruction upon destruction is cried; for the whole land is spoiled: suddenly are my tents spoiled, and my curtains in a moment.

21How long shall I see the standard, and hear the sound of the trumpet?

22For my people is foolish, they have not known me; they are sottish children, and they have none understanding: they are wise to do evil, but to do good they have no knowledge.

23I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light.

24I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly.

25I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled.

26I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the LORD, and by his fierce anger.

27For thus hath the LORD said, The whole land shall be desolate; yet will I not make a full end.

28For this shall the earth mourn, and the heavens above be black: because I have spoken it, I have purposed it, and will not repent, neither will I turn back from it.
Jer 4

8I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty. Rev 1


I believe that God decided to give us another chance but this time we would receive 'flesh bodies' made of the dust of the earth by being 'knit' in the womb, partakers of flesh and blood.
 

1In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

2And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. Gen 1

14Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; Heb 2


26And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

27So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. Gen 1


I believe this also confirmed by the dream of Jacob

14And he dreamed, and behold a ladder set up on the earth, and the top of it reached to heaven: and behold the angels of God ascending and descending on it.

13And, behold, the LORD stood above it, and said, I am the LORD God of Abraham thy father, and the God of Isaac: the land whereon thou liest, to thee will I give it, and to thy seed;

 

I believe that is the BODY, that we have now.  It is called the natural body.  It is flesh and BLOOD.  The life of the natural body is in the blood. 

1. flesh and blood
2. of the dust of the earth  -  terrestrial
3. knit in the mothers womb
4. mortal
5. corruptible
6. natural
7. feeds of the plants and animals of the earth  

the natural body produces a bare grain upon its death

1. there is a VOLUNTARY death of the natural body when one CHOOSES LIFE.  The natural body goes under the water, death, which produces the 'bare grain' for the spiritual body that rises up from the water and we become a citizen of heaven, no longer JUST of this world, though we still walk through the valley of the shadow of death, we have ALREADY risen with Christ in spirit, not in spiritual body

2.  there is the involuntary death of the natural body when the blood dies.  That will produce a bare grain for the spiritual body that descends into the grave, the corruption of the earth where it stays until Christ


"But flesh with the life thereof, which is the blood thereof, shall ye not eat." Genesis 9:4 KJVreturns. 

 

So AT DEATH of the natural body the SPIRITUAL BODY replaces it.  Every seed a body.  And every natural body produces a seed. 


It is not of this 'seen' realm, so we neither SEE it or FEEL it, but it is none the less just as REAL in the 'unseen' realm.  When Christ returns the unseen will become the seen.  

The spiritual body

1.  when the silver cord parts (presently unseen will become the seen)
2. not made with hands but of the heavens - celestial
3. to every seed GOD gives the body HE SEES FIT
4. IS either be mortal or immortal
5. incorruptible (EXCEPT when subject to 2nd death)
6. spiritual 
7. feeds of the body and blood of Christ

12But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

13Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. John 1

For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. John 6:55 

SO THAT BIRTH, being born of God, is the beginning of the spiritual body for the saved.  



 

So we can either be spiritually 'dead' and only have a natural body until we leave this realm and move on to the next  UNSAVED, no faith, 

or 

we can become a son of God and become spiritually 'alive' by being born again, born from above, born of God by dying to this world and being raised up in the spiritual one, living both the SEEN life and the UNSEEN at the same time.  

When BORN AGAIN, we become a NEW CREATURE.   We have works that will follow us for rewards.  Our good works make it so we won't be found naked. 

If not born again no rewards because the 'spiritual body' never got fed so never grew so going to be naked. 



Natural body EITHER spiritually dead or born again

Natural body dies STILL EITHER spiritually dead or born again 

BUT

no longer do the two go to the same place.  

The spiritually dead have had their natural body die and produce a seed for the body going to hell that will remain there until Christ returns and the dead rise.  Physical in that realm, unseen in this one.  None the less real, none the less physical. 

The born AGAIN have their natural body die and they are RAISED up to heaven, where Christ receives them unto Himself and brings them to the Father and they RECEIVE in their spiritual body the things done in the natural.  GOD give every seed and body and what ever body He sees fit is what they get. No second death because they are of the first resurrection, aka have received their immortality.   They will return with Him to rule and reign and will go on to the NHNE.    


The spiritually dead will rise when Christ returns and are in their spiritual bodies (as they have been since the death of the natual), but since they face the 2nd they REMAIN MORTAL. 
So for the Lords Day they have risen up and are 'alive', but they are still spiritually dead and mortal until they either find their name in the book of life and receive their immortality or Lake of fire and 2nd death in which both their body and soul is destroyed and all memory of them perishes and like smoke going up in the air, they vanish.  

Birth life and death and resurrection of the unsaved
born of woman natural body, live, die now spiritual body, go to hell, rise up from hell when Christ returns still mortal, have 1000 years to get name in book of life to become immortal or its lake of fire 2nd death body and soul destroyed.

Birth life and death and resurrection of SAVED
born of woman natural body, live, COME TO FAITH die and raise up born from above, spiritual body being fed within natural body, natural body dies, spiritual body goes to heaven, returns the alive and remaining join up with them to rule and reign. 

That is as short as I could make it and that is leaving out a whole lot of details that SHOULD be included, but this is just for an overall view.  

I am tired and going to sleep and will re-read it in the morning but am posting so it doesn't get lost with my horrible and sporadic internet connection that is getting worse every day.  

Shalom, DeighAnn.

Thank you for this introduction to the details of what you believe. I await any changes or additions you'd like to make.

Thanks again.

[Diaste]

19 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

Since it is THE DEAD who are resurrected, it can't be any believers from any time as believers aren't THE DEAD, they are the living, the never die.  

"And they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years."

These aren't believers? They can't come to life if they are not dead.

"And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their testimony of Jesus and for the word of God"

These died for Jesus and God. So they weren't believers? 

"This is the first resurrection. 6Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection! "

Only the dead are resurrected. These are blessed and holy and resurrected. Are you saying they aren't believers?

"they will be priests of God and of Christ, and will reign with Him for a thousand years."

This is only those who trust in Christ. These were resurrected from the dead in the 1st resurrection.